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a broken fire hydrant of isk for no risk compared to my faucet of isk

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Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 10:28:00 - [1] I'm pretty sure this is still a gross understatement when comparing rat bots and my lvl4 missions. Which got nerfed btw all in the name of risk for reward, the sad part is the alliances operating in deep null sec have been enjoying no risk for reward and yet they are issued a "broken fire hydrant" of isk compared to my "faucet of isk" when I run my missions. I am asking for ccp to now start boosting all mission lvl rewards, bonuses, lp, and bounties. I also want to warn those people who want to jump on the nerf the missions bandwagon to beware, it's a ploy to boost rmt sales, and a possible means to an end for ccp to inject micro transactions into the game.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.14 11:11:00 - [2] You will get so much crap for this. But I agree there is 0 risk in 0.0 if you are in the right group you get a fountain of isk for free. Pod
Project 69	Posted - 2011.02.14 11:34:00 - [3] Originally by: Pod Amarr You will get so much crap for this. But I agree there is 0 risk in 0.0 if you are in the right group you get a fountain of isk for free. you've to get there first
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.14 11:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Valarre I am asking for ccp to now start boosting all mission lvl rewards, bonuses, lp, and bounties. Why? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jita mcheck	Posted - 2011.02.14 15:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Jita mcheck on 14/02/2011 15:14:11 Edited by: Jita mcheck on 14/02/2011 15:12:27 There may be an ISK fauset in 0.0 but it shoudl remain so. to draw people out to 0.0 0.0 requres constant roams and defence fleets 0.0 requres pos bashing and pos repping and call to arms at non prime hours. 0.0 takes additional logistics. 0.0 requires more individual organization 0.0 reguires more alliance based organization. all these take time and are not factored in to most peoples calc's. but your right once set up and established 0.0 is nice...but there is constant upkeep and constant defence or you will lose it. Even if YOU only ran missions(and some corp said that was fine that you do nothing to help out)...others need to put in the effort in the above area's. Thus the corps woudl have a tax rate..based ony our whine i'm assuming you would have a problem with that as well. Where missions take you logging on and asking your agent for something. that said bots need to die and bann the acount, ban people who the isk was given to and thier IP banned as well. Sick of bots.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 17:39:00 - [6] to draw people out to 0.0 0.0 requres constant roams and defence fleets 0.0 requres pos bashing and pos repping and call to arms at non prime hours. 0.0 takes additional logistics. 0.0 requires more individual organization 0.0 reguires more alliance based organization. All the while their alts are rat botting 23.5/7 without anyone behind the screen, taking advantage of a flawed system. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an advantage to running in 0.0, however what is going in via rat botting is dead wrong. To penalyze mission runners and to tell them they aren't risking anything for their isk when in reality the null sec alliances aren't either is just plain wrong. We need to boost missions, and the reason for that is so that newer Alliances who don't have a proper foot in null or low sec yet can gain the means financially to even compete with more established alliances already out there making the big isk.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 17:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Valarre I am asking for ccp to now start boosting all mission lvl rewards, bonuses, lp, and bounties. Why? why? Because unlike you maybe, I and other people who play this game value their time more than what you and ccp might value it. News flash guys, since the nerf to missions people will be doing MORE missions, not LESS. The simple fact is that since they are making LESS they will have to run MORE missions in order to make the same amount of isk before the nerf happened. Why is this bad? For one thing people are now buying LESS which has a negative impact on the economy, people are pvping LESS because they are running missions more. In fact people all around will become more conservative with their spending of isk which is just plain bad news for the eve economy.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 17:58:00 - [8] IM ENTITLED TO BUCKETS OF EASY ISK AND REWARDS CAUSE LVL 4 MISSIONS ARE A LOT OF WORK is that what you meant to say?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Valarre Because unlike you maybe, I and other people who play this game value their time more than what you and ccp might value it. So why do you feel that missions should get higher rewards? Quote: News flash guys, since the nerf to missions people will be doing MORE missions, not LESS. The only relevant nerf happened, what? Four years ago? The changes made since then had next to zero impact to anyone doing missions efficiently. Moreover, increasing the rewards will only have the effect of making people run missions for almost exactly the same amount of time. If you want your ISK to be worth more, increasing the amount of ISK won't solve your problem. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:08:00 - [10] Originally by: XXSketchxx IM ENTITLED TO BUCKETS OF EASY ISK AND REWARDS CAUSE LVL 4 MISSIONS ARE A LOT OF WORK is that what you meant to say? No, but I am more entitled to it than the rat bots in 0.0 because I actually sit behind a screen, and they don't. Level 4 missions aren't a lot of work, but it is still work, and it should net a fair amount of isk just for the time that I put into it.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Valarre Because unlike you maybe, I and other people who play this game value their time more than what you and ccp might value it. So why do you feel that missions should get higher rewards? Quote: News flash guys, since the nerf to missions people will be doing MORE missions, not LESS. The only relevant nerf happened, what? Four years ago? The changes made since then had next to zero impact to anyone doing missions efficiently. Moreover, increasing the rewards will only have the effect of making people run missions for almost exactly the same amount of time. If you want your ISK to be worth more, increasing the amount of ISK won't solve your problem. 1. I answered your question as to why. 2. It is a proven fact that more isk(money) injected into an economy helps stimulate it more, so yes more isk does solve problems.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Valarre Originally by: XXSketchxx IM ENTITLED TO BUCKETS OF EASY ISK AND REWARDS CAUSE LVL 4 MISSIONS ARE A LOT OF WORK is that what you meant to say? No, but I am more entitled to it than the rat bots in 0.0 because I actually sit behind a screen, and they don't. Level 4 missions aren't a lot of work, but it is still work, and it should net a fair amount of isk just for the time that I put into it. So to fix bots, you think we should boost lvl 4s? Thats the logic you're following right? Okay just wanted to make sure that was clear. (hint: not everyone in 0.0 is a bot)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:22:00 - [13] Edited by: Tippia on 14/02/2011 18:23:46 Originally by: Valarre 1. I answered your question as to why. No you didn't. You only said that you want to spend less time running missions. The question is: why should an increase in mission rewards be used to solve this problem? Quote: 2. It is a proven fact that more isk(money) injected into an economy helps stimulate it more, so yes more isk does solve problems. Except, of course, that this isn't true. In fact, right now, ISK is injected like never before and it's causing huge problem precisely because it doesn't stimulate the economy. In only makes the very bad situation much much worse. What stimulates the economy in EVE is ships blowing up. Increasing an already too large ISK faucet does not make that happen more. Quite the opposite: it only forces people to spend even more time accumulating ISK and not blowing stuff up. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:24:00 - [14] I guess I should point out that the majority of bots, not all of them are associated with the rmt business. My suggestion to fighting this kind of business is to yes increase the amount of isk people make in missions, and wormholes. This way if people are making more isk more easily then they are LESS inclined to buying isk from an rmt business. Of course not everyone runs a bot in 0.0, however at this point (due to bots in 0.0) mission runners should earn a fair amount of isk. Besides havn't you ever been in an alliance where the minority of players actually defend their space while all of the plex runners/ratters reap the benefit of that safety without doing their part? I have, and tbh do they really diserve their reward to be much bigger than a mission runners reward?
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:29:00 - [15] Edited by: Valarre on 14/02/2011 18:31:12 The injection of the mass quantities of isk benefited by those who are rat botting is probably being sat on and not being spent. When it does indeed start getting spent that is not a bad thing. Unless of course whoever has this large quantity of isk starts to use it to manipulate the economy purposefully in a bad way. That is the only way more isk going into an economy can be bad, and there is sadly no way to regulate it the way the economy system is set up in Eve. Also more isk buys more ships to be blown up in pvp.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Valarre Besides havn't you ever been in an alliance where the minority of players actually defend their space while all of the plex runners/ratters reap the benefit of that safety without doing their part? I have, and tbh do they really diserve their reward to be much bigger than a mission runners reward? Lvl 4 mission runners are a step above high sec miners and ice harvesters. Low sec belt ratters should make more isk than them. As for your point about bots, you are essentially saying that because bots are inflating the economy, lvl 4s should be tweaked to also inflate the economy. Stupid logic is stupid.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:39:00 - [17] Originally by: XXSketchxx Stupid logic is stupid. Shhh I'm actually enjoying reading this stuff, you'll put a stop to it. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:50:00 - [18] You don't understand what inflation is. In some cases inflation can be a good thing. It is only bad if it starts to deteriorate the supply of goods so bad that there is literally no goods to buy. However bear in mind that with a higher demand = higher price, and with this formula it helps protect the supply of goods from being completely hammered. When the isk supply does go up dramatically yes that could be a bad thing. However you guys are all about letting the rat bots get their isk, instead of the honest mission runners who actually put forth their time to making the isk.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Project 69 you've to get there first Scouts? Cov Ops device? T3's? Proffit. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Valarre You don't understand what inflation is. In some cases inflation can be a good thing. It is only bad if it starts to deteriorate the supply of goods so bad that there is literally no goods to buy. However bear in mind that with a higher demand = higher price, and with this formula it helps protect the supply of goods from being completely hammered. When the isk supply does go up dramatically yes that could be a bad thing. However you guys are all about letting the rat bots get their isk, instead of the honest mission runners who actually put forth their time to making the isk. Please tell us more about your entitlement.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:53:00 - [21] Stupid logic is stupid. The honest truth is that my logic isn't stupid, it's that you aren't honest enough to admit what is good for this game.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:00:00 - [22] Edited by: XXSketchxx on 14/02/2011 19:00:28 Originally by: Valarre Stupid logic is stupid. The honest truth is that my logic isn't stupid, it's that you aren't honest enough to admit what is good for this game. You want to talk good for the game? All bounties in high sec missions..gone. This would be a result of anti-faction only missions in high sec. Wtf are pirates doing in high sec anyway? All T1, meta 1-4 loot removed from drops and a new system in place to allow budding industrialists the ability to make these modules from T1 modules + bpcs sold at LP stores. Dynamic LP costs and dynamic agent qualities. Deep low sec borders between warring factions. A better war on bots (see what I did there?).
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:01:00 - [23] Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: Valarre You don't understand what inflation is. In some cases inflation can be a good thing. It is only bad if it starts to deteriorate the supply of goods so bad that there is literally no goods to buy. However bear in mind that with a higher demand = higher price, and with this formula it helps protect the supply of goods from being completely hammered. When the isk supply does go up dramatically yes that could be a bad thing. However you guys are all about letting the rat bots get their isk, instead of the honest mission runners who actually put forth their time to making the isk. Please tell us more about your entitlement. No wait you're right. Lets discuss the entitlements of 0.0 and how they have the right to run an illegal business and break the eula, who cares about anyone else for that matter. Just as long as the precious rat bots gets their mass quantities of isk while the rest of the player base who has an actual back bone has to fight for the scraps.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Valarre No wait you're right. Lets discuss the entitlements of 0.0 and how they have the right to run an illegal business and break the eula, who cares about anyone else for that matter. Just as long as the precious rat bots gets their mass quantities of isk while the rest of the player base who has an actual back bone has to fight for the scraps. Show me on the doll where the bot touched you
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Tippia What stimulates the economy in EVE is ships blowing up. Increasing an already too large ISK faucet does not make that happen more. Quite the opposite: it only forces people to spend even more time accumulating ISK and not blowing stuff up. Well: since mining moons is impossible in high sec since sanctums/plex are inexistant in high sec since lvl5 missions are inexistant in high sec since high end minerals are inexistant in high sec Wy nerf high sec peoples activities? -does this makes them go right to low sec or 0.0? NO, but still they are the ones who pay the heavy price because alliances well established in low/numm get trillions of isk faster than I get enough isk to replace a Navy T2 fitted ship. Does this makes more people go to low sec? -no Does this makes more ships being blowned ? no, has far has 0.0 is total free risk + gigantic isk income it only serves for the mass build of Titans and Mom's, but low sec is still unliving, high sec the second class pvp'rs and pawns paradise. But still the high sec population being pointed has no risk vs reward, what a joke. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Benjamin Hamburg Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:09:00 - [26] Edited by: Benjamin Hamburg on 14/02/2011 19:11:38 Originally by: Pod Amarr You will get so much crap for this. But I agree there is 0 risk in 0.0 if you are in the right group you get a fountain of isk for free. go in 0.0. Im rather ****ed off when I see people commenting about 0.0 when actually, they talk about lvl 4 mission... Iv loosed a Megathron when I was ratting cause NPC in 0.0 warp scramble and web... Maybe they do that too in lvl 4 mission, but the difference is that there is no risk that a blob come pass trough your systems with the specific intention of killing target of opportunities. Every week, thousand of ship are destroyed in 0.0 at the hand of experienced pvper. Every week, thousand of ship are destroyed in high-sec at the hand of inexperienced fail-fitter. No, lvl4 mission reward are just fine like that. After all, there is always lvl 5 mission in low sec... edit: spelling There are no limits to the majestic future which lies before the mighty expanse of Canada with its virile, aspiring, cultured, and generous-hearted people. Sir Winston Churchill
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Valarre on 14/02/2011 19:09:48 You want to talk good for the game? All bounties in high sec missions..gone. This would be a result of anti-faction only missions in high sec. Wtf are pirates doing in high sec anyway? Anti-faction missions I am fine with, as long as the dogtags are dropped. It's feasable for pirates to go into high sec just to push boundaries. All T1, meta 1-4 loot removed from drops and a new system in place to allow budding industrialists the ability to make these modules from T1 modules + bpcs sold at LP stores. As long as you increase mission rewards, bonuses, and lp to reflect the amount of isk taken away by the lost loot (which is what ccp failed to do during the last nerf). Dynamic LP costs and dynamic agent qualities. Sure Deep low sec borders between warring factions. Sure A better war on bots (see what I did there?). 100% okay with that.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Valarre hard to read crap You see how I came up with logical ways to fix lvl 4 missions instead of randomly saying they should be boosted? As for replacement "boosts" for removal of meta drops...no. The replacement is the "broken parts" that drop. Sell them to industrialists or build and sell meta items. Your sense of entitlement is quite astonishing.
Valarre	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Swynet Originally by: Tippia What stimulates the economy in EVE is ships blowing up. Increasing an already too large ISK faucet does not make that happen more. Quite the opposite: it only forces people to spend even more time accumulating ISK and not blowing stuff up. Well: since mining moons is impossible in high sec since sanctums/plex are inexistant in high sec since lvl5 missions are inexistant in high sec since high end minerals are inexistant in high sec Wy nerf high sec peoples activities? -does this makes them go right to low sec or 0.0? NO, but still they are the ones who pay the heavy price because alliances well established in low/numm get trillions of isk faster than I get enough isk to replace a Navy T2 fitted ship. Does this makes more people go to low sec? -no Does this makes more ships being blowned ? no, has far has 0.0 is total free risk + gigantic isk income it only serves for the mass build of Titans and Mom's, but low sec is still unliving, high sec the second class pvp'rs and pawns paradise. But still the high sec population being pointed has no risk vs reward, what a joke. What if you are a new alliance and unable to expand out into low or null sec just yet? Penalzye them for being in high sec? Could this risk for reward system be a little played out for no good reason?
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: XXSketchxx Stupid logic is stupid. Shhh I'm actually enjoying reading this stuff, you'll put a stop to it. Much as I'm sad to prevent you're enjoyment I'm gunna have to. So OP... You started off complaining that 0.0 generates more isk than missioning, then when people said why that is as it is, you start screaming that bots make people money for no effort, so you should get money for no effort to. Firstly, botting is wrong, and more importantly is bannable. CCP are not going to re-balance the entire **ing economy around the money that some people make doing it. They just are not. Secondly, botting is a whole lot smaller problem than you seem to think. It happens, but not enough to in any way hurt the plural-hundred-trillion-isk sized economy. People can make at most a few dozen million a day extra. Most people don't think that its worth the risk of a permaban. Finally, even if botting was endemic, and was utterly ignored or even blessed by CCP, you still do not have the right answer. The whole point of eve being a totally artificial economy is that you have much wider options available to control inflation. Eve runs on Risk vs Reward, so if people are making too much money too easilly, you make it harder for them to make money. Crank up the difficulty of 0.0 belt rats without increasing the reward, and ideally without mentioning it. A little sleeper AI, or cycling damage types, or more and better ewar... You get the idea. Just enough to cut down on the unwanted isk influx. Its incredibly stupid to say that to compensate for 0.0 ratting high sec should explode with money. In reality, extra money flow can indeed stimulate activity, but ONLY WHEN ACTIVITY IS ARTIFICIALLY LOW. Eve is NOT in recession, it is not over inflated, it continues to grow consistently and it in fact incredibly stable by the context of real world economies. WTF do you want to break something that is working fine ? Hyper inflations, which is definitely what you are talking about, ALWAYS BREAKS THINGS. Hyper inflation ON ING PURPOSE IS THE MOST ****ED IDEA I HAVE EVER HEARD... WHAT SCHOOL OF ECNOMNOMNOMNOMICS DID YOU GO TO?

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