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[EL-G] New "Practical Discretion" engagement policy

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Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.16 14:07:00 - [31] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/02/2011 14:39:34 Well, nationalism rarely fails to embrace any neat hypocrisy close at hand. Join the Revolution!
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2011.02.16 14:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Well, if you want to be strict about it, she shouldn't even be saying "haan", as she's not even Caldari. One does not have to be of Caldari descensent to honor someone with the title. Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Originally by: Dex Nederland Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Thanks for the clarification there, Inhonores-haan. Considering both my and Kabuki's standings with the Federation, it good to know with certainty where we stand with one another. Please do not call Inhonores "haan." It is not a title for anyone with his loyalties. I do it to bother him. You have to imagine a drippingly ironic voice combined with an eye-roll. I would guess by his reaction it bothers me & mine more so than he. CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Shintoko Akahoshi Kabuki TransSolar	Posted - 2011.02.16 15:23:00 - [33] Well, considering your corporation and the general warm fuzzies shared between myself and other Lai Dai subsidiaries, I'll give haan a rest and simply call him by his other nickname in my book: "Mr. Fedo". Shin's bio and writings
Morwen Lagann Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.02.16 16:57:00 - [34] The important message to take away from all of this, I think, is that Seriphyn no longer has any grounds to mouth off to or look down on any other capsuleer about their particular chosen profession or rules of engagement. Especially those who've embraced an NBSI policy, just like he's now done. It doesn't matter whether you call it "practical discretion" or "selective NBSI", Seriphyn. It's all the same thing. The rest of us know it already, and are more than happy to watch with amusement as you flop about like a fish out of water, pretending that it's not. Enjoy your highsec access while you've still got it. I look forward to the day CONCORD revokes it from you and yours for your so-called "practical discretion." Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Well, considering your corporation and the general warm fuzzies shared between myself and other Lai Dai subsidiaries, I'll give haan a rest and simply call him by his other nickname in my book: "Mr. Fedo". I think I've got a few that could be added to that book, Kaika.
Hamish Grayson Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2011.02.16 21:42:00 - [35] I hope that Kedisa can speak for himself, and that the tyrannical leader of the anarchist-blooder cult he's mixed up in hasn't gagged him. ============================================ It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.16 23:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Hamish Grayson I hope that Kedisa can speak for himself, and that the tyrannical leader of the anarchist-blooder cult he's mixed up in hasn't gagged him. All free captains can speak for themselves Mr Grayson. However inconvenient that might be for regressive nationalists to understand. Join the Revolution!
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.02.16 23:22:00 - [37] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 16/02/2011 23:22:32 Hm. On one hand, this policy is admirably practical in a "political extremist" kind of way. Once upon a time, I had ideas about establishing a similar sort of entity for the State. "Down with the enemies of the Caldari," and all that, so I can't denounce this too loudly. On the other hand, the nickname, "Piratical Discretion" is just too perfect to resist.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition	Posted - 2011.02.17 02:49:00 - [38] There can be so many reason to shoot and get shot at. This is why I never use gates when alone and always have a cloak.
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.02.19 17:19:00 - [39] The fact is that ships in low security space are typically there for a reason, and very rarely is it a peaceful one. I'd argue that the vast majority of "neutral" ships moving through our region of space are in fact complicit in supplying either the Caldari war machine or local pirate factions. Every non-flagged enemy transport ship that we destroy is several lives saved in the days following. It would be nice to assume that these vessels are moving through the region peacefully, but we have to be realistic; they are traveling through a war zone. If these ships aren't there to support a local combatant, then why aren't they taking safer high-sec routes?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.19 17:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Bluejacket CT If these ships aren't there to support a local combatant, then why aren't they taking safer high-sec routes? There are a myriad of possible reasons. Come now, you I know to be a sensible and intelligent man. You understand very well that interstellar transit, trade and resource-exploitation often leads people into the less secure zones of this cluster. Please do not fall prey to the paranoia that so often infests the Outer Worlds. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Shintoko Akahoshi Kabuki TransSolar	Posted - 2011.02.19 17:29:00 - [41] Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi on 19/02/2011 17:29:37 Originally by: Bluejacket CT The fact is that ships in low security space are typically there for a reason, and very rarely is it a peaceful one. I'd argue that the vast majority of "neutral" ships moving through our region of space are in fact complicit in supplying either the Caldari war machine or local pirate factions. Every non-flagged enemy transport ship that we destroy is several lives saved in the days following. That's it, keep justifying! If you do it enough, you might start to believe it, yourself. Honestly, though, El-G should just take a page from Veto's book. They shoot whomever they feel, but at least they're honest about it. Oh, and "Hi" Cosmo. Long time no see! Shin's bio and writings
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.19 17:44:00 - [42] Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Oh, and "Hi" Cosmo. Long time no see! My dear! A delight to see you prospering and looking so well. These old ocular implants are almost overloaded by the sight! The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.02.19 20:45:00 - [43] Edited by: X Gallentius on 19/02/2011 20:45:30 It's a harsh world out there. As such I operate under an NHDS (No Hostile Don't Shoot) policy outside CONCORD defined Factional Warfare war areas. If a target shows hostile intent then he's fair game. This policy is coupled with an NPDS (Not Profitable Don't shoot) policy inside CONCORD sanctioned war zones and sometimes outside these war zones when the situation demands.
Kerri Knight Caldari Ishukone Prosperity Exchange	Posted - 2011.02.20 01:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Using a case-by-case study of each pilot's public record, any capsuleer that has...positive standings to [the Federation's] enemies is subject to destruction without warning. We have had a number of our employees, many of whom are locally hired Intaki, express their dismay at the possibility of Federation militia operatives turning their guns on them. Who, exactly, you consider to be the Federation's enemies is in immediate need of clarification. If you are referring to Provists or State Protectorate forces specifically, that is one thing. If you mean to say that all entities which are aligned in any way with the State are open targets, then you reveal yourself to be a bigot and a cut-throat using a flimsy rationale to justify aggression, injury, destruction of property, and potentially the murder of innocent civilians. Ishukone Prosperity Exchange "Cooperation is the greater path than conflict." Kerri Knight Public Relations Coordinator/ Government Affairs Liason
Vikarion Caldari Blackened Steel	Posted - 2011.02.20 03:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Kerri Knight If you mean to say that all entities which are aligned in any way with the State are open targets, then you reveal yourself to be a bigot and a cut-throat using a flimsy rationale to justify aggression, injury, destruction of property, and potentially the murder of innocent civilians. This is, I expect, exactly what their use of euphemism and obfuscating nomenclature is intended to conceal. - - - Warning: Having fun, often at your expense!
Saul Ambrye Gallente Ishukone Prosperity Exchange	Posted - 2011.02.21 05:36:00 - [46] We await the General's clarification before passing final judgment. In the interim, however, we are acting on the advice of our security consultants who currently feel that EL-G vessels very likely intend violence will take the necessary steps to safeguard the lives of our employees. Ishukone Prosperity Exchange "Cooperation is the greater path than conflict." Saul Ambrye Executive Director/ Senior Project Coordinator
Shintoko Akahoshi Kabuki TransSolar	Posted - 2011.02.21 18:18:00 - [47] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Oh, and "Hi" Cosmo. Long time no see! My dear! A delight to see you prospering and looking so well. These old ocular implants are almost overloaded by the sight! The Cosmopolite Likewise, my old friend, likewise! I would love to get together and catch up with you, sometime. Though I imagine it would largely consist of my ranting about Heth and you gently saying "I told you so"... Shin's bio and writings
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Saul Ambrye We await the General's clarification before passing final judgment. In the interim, however, we are acting on the advice of our security consultants who currently feel that EL-G vessels very likely intend violence will take the necessary steps to safeguard the lives of our employees. The fact is that the majority of the Union has already moved to a similar policy. EL-G is one of the last Union-affiliated corporations to drop their pure NRDS ROE. If you are concerned with the safety of your ships, I'd advise your membership to keep clear of major militia fleets. I'll admit, it is a very ugly policy, but given how convoluted the lines of battle have become in our region the Union has had to make pretty severe changes to drive Protectorate forces out of Placid and Black Rise. We don't want to engage Intaki separatist forces, nor would it be in our best interest to do so; after all, the Union came to defend the Intaki starbase just a few weeks ago. Our fleets have come to assist many of those who have posted in this thread, and you all know our true colors. All of you are also aware of the nature of low-sec conflict, I can only hope that you would understand why the changes in our ROE have been made over the past few months.
Saul Ambrye Gallente Ishukone Prosperity Exchange	Posted - 2011.02.22 06:14:00 - [49] Edited by: Saul Ambrye on 22/02/2011 06:16:43 The legal authority of the militias does not extend to matters of industry or commerce. Unless you can show probable cause to consider a vessel to be giving military assistance to State Protectorate forces, you have no authority to dictate where it may or may not operate. Put simply, you are operating beyond the bounds of law and making up your own rules. This sort of attitude is entirely at odds with the very principles of the Federation and from which it draws its legitimacy. This has nothing to do with Intaki separatism, but with militia forces indicating hostility towards entities which are licensed to do business within the Federation's borders and have done so within the established framework of regulatory oversight. Should the Federation no longer wish this to be the case, there are appropriate measures which could be taken by those agencies with the proper jurisdiction to do so. As of this time, I am ordering a return to full production. Logistical operations will be undertaken with skeleton crews of only those workers who volunteer to do so. This will result in a number of employees suffering increased economic hardship as fewer shifts will be available. It is quite reprehensible to force parties uninvolved in the conflict to choose between putting food on their tables and possibly being fired upon by their own countrymen. I'm hard pressed not to see this entire farce as yet another extension of the long-standing tendency for the Federation's supporters to undercut any efforts by those Intaki who live in Assembly-governed territories to reach an equal standard of living as seen elsewhere and to keep them economically dependent upon the Federation for survival. "The nature of low-sec conflict" is that dangers exist from those who mean harm to the innocent. I am hard pressed to see how becoming yet another danger to the innocent yourselves is the proper response to this or helps correct the issue for those who actually live here. There are many outfits who operate in low security without turning to paranoid methods. If you aren't willing to risk operating in such areas without becoming brutes, perhaps you are unfit for command and should rethink what line of work your are best suited for. In all sincerity, your choices bring dishonor to the brave men and women who serve in the various branches of the Federal military. Furthermore, I again repeat that I await the General's clarification on the matter. If he is a man of integrity, he can speak for himself and does not need to hide behind other militia organizations operating unlawfully as a cloak of justification. Ishukone Prosperity Exchange "Cooperation is the greater path than conflict." Saul Ambrye Executive Director/ Senior Project Coordinator
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.22 18:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Likewise, my old friend, likewise! I would love to get together and catch up with you, sometime. Though I imagine it would largely consist of my ranting about Heth and you gently saying "I told you so"... It would be a pleasure and, my dear, I would never be so churlish. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2011.02.23 17:04:00 - [51] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Bluejacket CT If these ships aren't there to support a local combatant, then why aren't they taking safer high-sec routes? There are a myriad of possible reasons. Come now, you I know to be a sensible and intelligent man. You understand very well that interstellar transit, trade and resource-exploitation often leads people into the less secure zones of this cluster. Please do not fall prey to the paranoia that so often infests the Outer Worlds. The Cosmopolite Its always a pleasure to hear your calm and rational perspectives...a voice of reason in a sea of static. Tac-Ops Commander / ISC [21EL]
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.02.25 03:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Syn Callibri Its always a pleasure to hear your calm and rational perspectives...a voice of reason in a sea of static. We are all red-handed here, the real difference is which side you are on.
Benjamin Shepherd Caldari Intaki Liberation Front	Posted - 2011.02.25 05:19:00 - [53] Edited by: Benjamin Shepherd on 25/02/2011 05:19:23 Eight years of this Intergalactic Summit being open to capsuleers, and the same arguments persist. Choose to attack and not egg on your rivals in this forum, instead of doing just the former or just the latter. As the popular saying goes, don't beat the dead horse.
Boma Airaken White Song Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.02.25 05:52:00 - [54] I read the initial post, and can't be asked to bother with all of the followups consisting mainly of everyone rehashing the same old justifications for why their ROE is right and others are wrong, but it begs the question, why is your ROE any of our business? Hell, Celestial Imperative doesn't even have one.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2011.02.25 20:23:00 - [55] Originally by: Bluejacket CT Originally by: Syn Callibri Its always a pleasure to hear your calm and rational perspectives...a voice of reason in a sea of static. We are all red-handed here, the real difference is which side you are on. Simple answer...mine. "I am his shadow."
Ritual Sacrifice	Posted - 2011.02.25 20:58:00 - [56] only a fool gets engaged on the first date.

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