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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Catheryn Martobi
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Posted - 2011.02.21 01:42:00 -
[1]
Seems like every other topic these days is about botting. CCP is going to have to devote some serious resources to resolving this problem soon or face some serious community backlash.
In anticipation for this I have been thinking about what I could invest in in order to turn a profit once botting accounts start getting perma-banned. Should I liquidize everything, or turn my net worth into assets? Should I start buying out minerals, mission loot, salvage, etc?
In other words, what is going to be in demand once the bots are unable to provide it?
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.21 01:48:00 -
[2]
Can I havez ur liquidz?
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.02.21 01:48:00 -
[3]
You really think CCP will do anything?
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.02.21 01:50:00 -
[4]
Too optimistic for my taste.
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Xylengra
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Posted - 2011.02.21 01:52:00 -
[5]
What's going to be in demand is new and better bots, and, I can assure you, those are already in the works.
However, you base your question on a faulty premise. CCP will not "...have to devote some serious resources to resolving this problem...".
Take whatever percentage of active subscriptions you feel comfortable with (and they range wildly, don't they?) and then ask yourself if it would make sense for CCP to proactively cut their income by the dollars they would lose with permabans. It's just not gonna happen.
No MMO ever has 'solved' this 'problem', ever.
Likewise faulty is your presumption that there will ever be "...serious community backlash."
Forum *****ing, yes. Real player action on any significant scale, no.
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Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2011.02.21 02:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xylengra
Take whatever percentage of active subscriptions you feel comfortable with (and they range wildly, don't they?) and then ask yourself if it would make sense for CCP to proactively cut their income by the dollars they would lose with permabans. It's just not gonna happen. Likewise faulty is your presumption that there will ever be "...serious community backlash."
Forum *****ing, yes. Real player action on any significant scale, no.
I really hate to admit it, but this.
Bottom line is every mmo sooner or later encounters this problem, and when it becomes endemic the game in question has had its day. The game does not die, but almost always drops well below peak subscriber numbers until it is played by niche die-hards and bots, while cycling newbies who play until they discover they can't win without botting themselves. Look at the history of almost every mmo and they follow this trend.
Originally by: Xylengra No MMO ever has 'solved' this 'problem', ever.
CCP of old would have had a damn good try, back when they cared about the game. These days, my gut feeling is they just don't have the same love for the game that they did, as well as having many more financial concerns (DUST, WoD etc.) to support.
If someone can solve it, then IMO CCP are as good as anyone. They have come up with creative solutions to problems before, and can do it again. Question is are there any devs who genuinely love the game as they once did?
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Catheryn Martobi
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Posted - 2011.02.21 02:58:00 -
[7]
IMO, if they knew they were facing the end of their game they would do something about it. They would have to be blind to history to ignore this. Unless of course you are suggesting there is no possible solution and CCP is just going to try to milk their subscribers until they inevitably leave and give up on gaining new ones?
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.21 03:07:00 -
[8]
Im guessing the mods are on vacation on the weekend, or they decided to stop censoring the bot issue
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Ai Shun
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.21 03:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi IMO, if they knew they were facing the end of their game they would do something about it.
End of their game:
November 2008: 250,000 subscribers December 2009: 300,000 subscribers (Over 300,000) January 2011: 340,000 subscribers
Perhaps the problem is not as big as the squeaky wheels here would like you to think. Perhaps it is. I don't know.
I'm going out on a limb here and trust the stewards of this game as they have managed to invest in it, run it and reap the rewards of it for the last 7 or whatever years. I trust them a lot more to manage their game and the future revenue from it than I do the bleatings of some random butt-hurt person on a video game forum as CCP will have the tools and mechanisms available to measure this. And I don't believe they will be dumb enough to let it devolve into a bott only game.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.21 04:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi Seems like every other topic these days is about botting. CCP is going to have to devote some serious resources to resolving this problem soon or face some serious community backlash.
I absolutely agree.
CLOSE THE FORUMS NOW! STOP BOTTING WHINE THREADS FROM TAKING OVER!
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.02.21 04:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara on 21/02/2011 04:45:49
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi IMO, if they knew they were facing the end of their game they would do something about it. They would have to be blind to history to ignore this. Unless of course you are suggesting there is no possible solution and CCP is just going to try to milk their subscribers until they inevitably leave and give up on gaining new ones?
I remember long long ago back in June 2010 when CCP developers and QA still had the dark cloud (aka the cluster****) of Dominion over their heads and they stated that their data denoted that quantity of features out-weighed quality of features. Up to that point, CCP paid lip service to the **** they published in December 2009 and threw up some "Test server sessions" to placate the masses.
Not long after CCP's half-assed Tyrannis expansion was released in June '10 and the PI-based'repro-gate' took place, EVE subscription numbers actually fell. Once that happened, the EVE community saw a CCP energized to make things better with server performance.
While I have read through all of the botting threads, I am not convinced that bots are truly harmful to the game OR that they can't be policed to some extent by others players hunting in the belts.
tl;dr - CCP (and their investors?) saw a threat to their cash cow and took action.
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Meridith Akesia
Tempest Legion
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Posted - 2011.02.21 06:10:00 -
[12]
Buff bots, nerf whine threads.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:59:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Malcanis on 21/02/2011 09:59:38 CCP are already able to detect the bots. It doesn't take a data forensics genius to see that asdfasdf, who has been ratting belts/doing lo-sec courier missions/mining ice 23.5 hours a day for weeks is a bot. The problem is that once detected, the bots are either ignored or given a 1 or 3 day ban. Then they resume botting.
All of which makes the whole exercise of reporting bots pointless - the punishment is so completely feeble as to consitute a warning for getting caught rather than anything else.
A few minutes on google will find you the forums for the most popular bot programs. Read for yourself - they are deriding the punishments that are given by CCP. They are not even remotely a deterrent. If the offending account was immediately permabanned, and ISK/assets equivalent to a conservate estimate of the illicit income was removed from associated accounts (this is where the data forensics do come in to play, but again, it's not THAT hard to do), then even with a fairly low detection rate, people would become extremely cautious about using these programs.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:04:00 -
[14]
CCP shouldnt lose much money when botters are banned. Sure they have less subscriptions, but how would those botters then get their ISK? One way is to sell plexes, which means profit for CCP.
That said it is pretty clear CCP doesnt care about the botting problem. And contrary to all the EVE IS DYING !11!!!!!111! we have had before I think this one is far more realistic. People are quickly realising the only way to stay competetive in 0.0 is by botting on massive scale, since that is the only thing that can get you the required amount of supercaps.
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Florestan Bronstein
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:07:00 -
[15]
off the top of my head - faction ships, faction ammo, implants
you could look for investment candidates automatically by taking the eve-central market dumps from one week before Unholy rage and one week after Unholy rage and look for significant price differences (e.g. +4 implants jumped from 14-16m to 20-22m within 1-2 days).
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ai Shun
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi IMO, if they knew they were facing the end of their game they would do something about it.
End of their game:
November 2008: 250,000 subscribers December 2009: 300,000 subscribers (Over 300,000) January 2011: 340,000 subscribers
Perhaps the problem is not as big as the squeaky wheels here would like you to think. Perhaps it is. I don't know.
I'm going out on a limb here and trust the stewards of this game as they have managed to invest in it, run it and reap the rewards of it for the last 7 or whatever years. I trust them a lot more to manage their game and the future revenue from it than I do the bleatings of some random butt-hurt person on a video game forum as CCP will have the tools and mechanisms available to measure this. And I don't believe they will be dumb enough to let it devolve into a bott only game.
And Im betting that as the supposed player number rise, the bots rise faster |
Richard Aiel
Caldari GloboTech Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Not long after CCP's half-assed Tyrannis expansion was released in June '10 and the PI-based'repro-gate' took place, EVE subscription numbers actually fell. Once that happened, the EVE community saw a CCP energized to make things better with server performance.
They did the same thing with the IA dept and what the CSM was supposed to be after T20 |
Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 21/02/2011 10:09:40 CCP shouldnt lose much money when botters are banned. Sure they have less subscriptions, but how would those botters then get their ISK? One way is to sell plexes, which means profit for CCP.
That said it is pretty clear CCP doesnt care about the botting problem. And contrary to all the EVE IS DYING !11!!!!!111! we have had before I think this one is far more realistic. People are quickly realising the only way to stay competetive in 0.0 is by botting on massive scale, since that is the only thing that can get you the required amount of supercaps.
Botting will never be completely removed, that is one thing that is certain. However CCP also shouldnt making it as easy as they are doing now: Running a bot 23.5/7 is no problem, some simple detection for that and you first ban a ****load of botters and remove their ISK and after that you cut down bot income in half while regular players are unaffected.
Drasticly improve PVE, because lets face it, currently it is pretty much optimized for bots. It is horrible repetitive gameplay that sucks for humans and is ideal for bots, who guess people would bot that... (and that is from lvl 4 missions, that are actually good if you compare it to other pve which says quite a bit about the other pve, to courier missions, belt ratting, anomalies, etc. And then you also got the market that due to the 0.01 crap is also pretty much ideal for bots.
Nerf supercaps, in the end the supercaps are what started this bot race, since the only thing that matters right now is who has more (and is willign to use them) supercarriers and to lesser extent titans.
Nerfing supercaps isn't going to do **** against bots. Removing bots is a good enough 'nerf' on supercaps.. when minerals jump til legit players mine to fill the void.. they will be incredibly expensive. Ontop of some of these alliances not having their macro-ratters anymore to help the Isk flow. Losing a super would actually end up be crippling to some alliances that heavily use/need bots. I bet you'd see less supers/caps fielded.
The 23/7 detection thing probably was a tactic used by CCP, but bots don't pull the 23.5/7 time-card anymore. They don't pod from station to roids after a gank anymore. Unless they using an out dated program.. they've evolved as far as those two things go. They will now randomly log for 10 minutes then pop back in every 3-5ish hours. I been trying to figure out if they have a programmed pattern or if they got randomized in this reguard. And when you rip the pod from their hulls.. they log out immediately.
I'm pretty sure CCP does care.. it ruins the mystique of a sandbox filled with people, when there are a growing number of robots running around. It has a terrible effect on the economy, in that it signficantly warps the mentality that it is player driven. It isn't really.. EVERYTHING is effected by minerals. The price coming from supply/demand.. and majority of supply I bet comes from bots.
They need to do something, players need to do their part too. Keep making noise, keep making petitions, blow'em up. **** it if prices raise, they should.. let it equalize by actual legit player efforts. **** it if alliances shatter cause their bots are broken, they don't deserve the space. It'll be harder for super-power alliances to hold as much space.. it'll open the door for nullsec to be populated by many corps/alliances instead of a handful + pets/meatshields.
Bots..
They must be stopped.. All of them. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
James Tiberius Kirk
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Posted - 2011.02.21 11:05:00 -
[19]
Start buying ice. When CCP finally unleashes the unholy rage, you'll make either a quick buck, or **** tons of ISK depending how much you bought.
Other minerals works too, but they aren't as effected from botting as ice. That **** is fully controlled by botters.
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Zati Pasirga
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Posted - 2011.02.21 11:14:00 -
[20]
You have to know that CCP guys are players too. They have 3 options: A)Ban the botters of other alliances and dont touch the botters of their own alliance, which would create emorage on the forums. B)Ban the botters of their own alliance too, which would kind of destroy it. C)Do nothing.
Im not surprised they picked C)
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2011.02.21 11:16:00 -
[21]
Locked as there is already a thread that exists on this topic.
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