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Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
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Posted - 2012.08.24 04:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Don't you think Dominix is OP? First of all, it can bring versatile damage GÇô it can hit to sniper distance, and a moment later it hunts fast frigates on low orbit. ItGÇÖs DPS is also very high GÇô about 500 @ 100 km optimal is easily achieved. It can tank well with 7 low slots. And they can tank super well, if in spider. While being mostly armor-tanked, it has a crap load of med slots. Sometimes they are used for omni-links, but thatGÇÖs not mandatory. Capacitor, ECM, targeting, propulsion, ... too much versatility. The most important, imo, is that in order to bring good enough DPS you donGÇÖt need high slots at all. It means 6 utility slots, have you seen something like that at any other subcap ship?! But they are not utility in fact, you can install guns and get just ridiculous DPS! Otherwise GÇô neuts, spidertank, smarties, whatever you like. And that is one of the cheapest battleships.
The verdict is clear GÇô totally OP. I hate to say that, because I have one of my toons perfectly trained for it. But the truth is, it needs a big deal of balancing. As a first step, IGÇÖd suggest GÇ£inherent omni-linkGÇ¥, that is to remove 1 med slot and introduce special ability for drone optimal and tracking (and reduce CPU appropriately). Any other ideas? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1246
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Posted - 2012.08.24 04:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Once those drones are dead (a high tank Domi sacrifices turrets usually) so is its DPS. That is why it is not OP. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
658
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 04:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
I really don't think the domi is OP but it is one of the better battleships in the game. I think the armageddon will be buffed to me more like the domi soon. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
533
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:I really don't think the domi is OP but it is one of the better battleships in the game. I think the armageddon will be buffed to me more like the domi soon. The Armageddon can already field a full flight of heavy or sentry drones, in addition to its considerable DPS and damage projection second only to the Abaddon (as far as the Amarr battleships go). The only problem is that fielding full heavies or sentries sacrifices the ability to fit any other drones, which for solo PVE makes you vulnerable to frigates and close orbiting cruisers.
I don't think either need to be buffed or nerfed. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
33
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Posted - 2012.08.24 05:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs.
I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
390
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.
Jeesh-louise. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
MushroomMushroom wrote:There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs. I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does. When it's about large fleet engagements, Domi is really pretty useless ships. Bombs (both launchable and smart) will put a strong stress on them. That's why it's so rare in 0.0, I think. And they will be useless, no matter buff or nerf them - just not their role.
But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km. |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:MushroomMushroom wrote:There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs. I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does. When it's about large fleet engagements, Domi is really pretty useless ships. Bombs (both launchable and smart) will put a strong stress on them. That's why it's so rare in 0.0, I think. And they will be useless, no matter buff or nerf them - just not their role. But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km. Those spidertanking domis don't move too well. And good luck running a sleeper site with drones. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9221
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
No. Each of its strengths is coupled with a weakness. If it were anywhere near to being OP, you'd see them everywhere. You don't because they aren't. They have a couple of things they excel at, and that just means it's a well-rounded ship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
52
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote: But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km.
Have you ever tried this at home or are you just theory-crafting? ;-) |
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Nan Quan
Magnifico Giganticus Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.08.24 06:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Don't you think Dominix is OP? First of all, it can bring versatile damage GÇô it can hit to sniper distance, and a moment later it hunts fast frigates on low orbit. ItGÇÖs DPS is also very high GÇô about 500 @ 100 km optimal is easily achieved. It can tank well with 7 low slots. And they can tank super well, if in spider. While being mostly armor-tanked, it has a crap load of med slots. Sometimes they are used for omni-links, but thatGÇÖs not mandatory. Capacitor, ECM, targeting, propulsion, ... too much versatility. The most important, imo, is that in order to bring good enough DPS you donGÇÖt need high slots at all. It means 6 utility slots, have you seen something like that at any other subcap ship?! But they are not utility in fact, you can install guns and get just ridiculous DPS! Otherwise GÇô neuts, spidertank, smarties, whatever you like. And that is one of the cheapest battleships.
The verdict is clear GÇô totally OP. I hate to say that, because I have one of my toons perfectly trained for it. But the truth is, it needs a big deal of balancing. As a first step, IGÇÖd suggest GÇ£inherent omni-linkGÇ¥, that is to remove 1 med slot and introduce special ability for drone optimal and tracking (and reduce CPU appropriately). Any other ideas?
You forget a few things thought...
Most of a domis DPS comes from drones... and drones are easily killed... when the drones are killed the domi turns from queen to beatch in a second. Now imagine if people could target each others turrets and launchers in that same way...
The common denominator for gallente ships is that they are a bit of do-it-alls... They do a little bit of this, the tradeoff is that they do nothing expertly. So while it do have enough mids to sprout a semi decent shield tank the shield tank is not great. And at the same time it have enough low slots to fit a decent armor tank... but yet again not great. Domis are used mostly in a kind of semi logistical duty fassion.
If domis were so OP as you say there are there would be humongous domi fleets all over... yet if you cometo just about any fleet I know in a domi the others will look at you as if you have sprouted a third eye or something... and they may actually tell you to go get another ship or go home...
I do love Domis at POS bashes thought... but the fit I use for that would probably make baby Jesus cry. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
396
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 07:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dominix OP, lmao wtf. You must be trolling |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 08:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes, I do run C4 sleeper sites with 1 Domi and 1 Typhoon in spidertank - phoon sux, domi rocks. Drones can be used against sleepers, learn to play. And no, it's not a trolling. You cannot use Dominix in blob, and if you try - your FC will reasonably consider you're insane. Every other role - and it fits there great.
Alright, could you give me an example where another BS performs better? Of course, only T1 non-faction battleships take part in this contest. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
397
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 09:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 09:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships. Sure, but the thing is there are too many "specific" purposes for the Domi. It's too versatile, that's the problem.
Once again, poke an example into me - where another BS performs better? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
397
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 09:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
dominix suck in pretty everything compared to other BS, apart of some niche tasks. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9225
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 11:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:And no, it's not a trolling. You cannot use Dominix in blob, and if you try - your FC will reasonably consider you're insane. Every other role - and it fits there great. GǪand thus the whole notion that it's overpowered falls apart.
Quote:Alright, could you give me an example where another BS performs better? Gank. Tank. EwarGǪ oh, and pretty much anything that requires range or movement. The one thing the Domi does well is GÇ£a bit of everythingGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
43
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships. Sure, but the thing is there are too many "specific" purposes for the Domi. It's too versatile, that's the problem. Once again, poke an example into me - where another BS performs better?
ok:
maelstrom/abbadon : way better sniper tempest : better kiter megatron: better brawler typhoon: at least as versatile as the domi. big drone bay, lots of highs to put nasty stuff in. scorpion : one click and all your high slots are worth nothing rohk : tanks you and your drones to eternity. meanwhile blaster pounding in your face. ...
don't get me wrong, domi is a very good ship. but not as op as you think.
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1668
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.
Jeesh-louise.
This. |
A Soporific
Able Archer Solutions
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 16:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Let's just assume that you're right and the Dominix is way overpowered.
How should they nerf it? Are we talking about removing tank? Are we talking removing drone capaity/bandwidth? Are we talking about removing high slots or mid slots?
What should the end result of that nerf be? Making a common, but not particularly popular, ship uncommon? Making room for currently unpopular ships? Making room for a larger number of new and more specialized ships? Ummm... Hitting Gallente players with a nerf bat for some reason? |
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Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
- Ganking (suicide?): During Goons campaign against blue ice miners, they tried to pop my Hulk. With a battleship. It was - Dominix. Also they failed (I used rr), it was a nice try indeed, probably the best. - Snipping: 500 DPS @ 100 km, plus decent tank - no way Mael can outperform that. Maybe you mean alpha-striking? Is it ever used outside blobs, since introduction of Tornado? Well... maybe, not sure. - Kiting: versus NPC or in PVP? In PVE you cant get better kiter - just agro everything and run away, drones will do the job. In PVP I've never heard of kiting BS, but once again, might be just my fault. - Brawler: cannot agree on Megatron, but yes for Rokh, it's uber - in fact I start thinking it's even better than Vindi, especially with those ASBs. - Scorpion - the pro in EWAR, agree. - Typhoon - a very good example how a versatile ship should be. The drone bay is not large at all, so it has to rely on turrets/launchers to be competitive. This mean only 3 free high slots, and at least a couple of low/med slots are busy with guns support modules. It brings phoon on a level lower than Domi, which is just fine - and I like that ship.
Alright, if you insist Domi is not OP - it's even better for me. I'll train my other toon for it as well, and will be flying them happily without fear of being nerfed anytime soon. Thanks for opinions, anyway! |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.
Jeesh-louise. This. LOL, you dont get it - it's awesome! If you think it's not - look at Caldari... |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
146
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote: Those spidertanking domis don't move too well. And good luck running a sleeper site with drones.
Sleepers only change target in the first minutes... if you make a meningfull dps ( more then a single drone) they will ignore the drones and will focus on you... then... it is just fun...
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
43
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:- Ganking (suicide?): During Goons campaign against blue ice miners, they tried to pop my Hulk. With a battleship. It was - Dominix. Also they failed (I used rr), it was a nice try indeed, probably the best. - Snipping: 500 DPS @ 100 km, plus decent tank - no way Mael can outperform that. Maybe you mean alpha-striking? Is it ever used outside blobs, since introduction of Tornado? Well... maybe, not sure. - Kiting: versus NPC or in PVP? In PVE you cant get better kiter - just agro everything and run away, drones will do the job. In PVP I've never heard of kiting BS, but once again, might be just my fault. - Brawler: cannot agree on Megatron, but yes for Rokh, it's uber - in fact I start thinking it's even better than Vindi, especially with those ASBs. - Scorpion - the pro in EWAR, agree. - Typhoon - a very good example how a versatile ship should be. The drone bay is not large at all, so it has to rely on turrets/launchers to be competitive. This mean only 3 free high slots, and at least a couple of low/med slots are busy with guns support modules. It brings phoon on a level lower than Domi, which is just fine - and I like that ship.
Alright, if you insist Domi is not OP - it's even better for me. I'll train my other toon for it as well, and will be flying them happily without fear of being nerfed anytime soon. Thanks for opinions, anyway!
sniping is about one shot kills (=alpha). besides that a maelstrom does over 400 DPS @ 150km with tremor and stays mobile, still tanking over 1000DPS with an xl asb.
wether you shoot the npcs yourself or let drones do the work for you does not matter for the ability to kite. i always would choose a tempest over an domi for kiting. smaller sig and 21m/s higher base speed. and yes bs can kite even in pvp.
additionally, even the fact, that we are keep arguing about it means there is ( at least some form of) balance.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10247
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
If it was OP we'd use them all the time. But they have flaws that mean other BS are better.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:How should they nerf it? Are we talking about removing tank? Are we talking removing drone capaity/bandwidth? Are we talking about removing high slots or mid slots? Well, that was supposed to be the matter of discussion. I've suggested to reduce its versatility a bit, making it more specialized on drones, via "inherent omnilink". I'd also reduce the number of turrets to, say, 3-4. It would prevent 1700 DPS monster fits. Maybe also reduce the drone bay, to induce some tension - which is not there at the moment. Targeting range is also a bit too large, imho.
In general, CCP want to set some specific roles to every ship. Intuitions says to me, that Dominix should be a sort of mini-carrier. So it should do the things that a carrier does - drones and heavy logistics. However, being one class lower than carrier, it should have far less range, both in RR and drones. While the former is true, the later is not that obvious. Guns should be rudimentary, as there are none on carriers. And of course, it should cost like mini-carrier, not like a couple of BCs.
Quote:And About the main reason of the topic... Dont worry about this.... the AttentionBS TIERCIDE IS COMMINGAttention In fact, that is what I afraid! I afraid the Domi would be nerfed down to the floor one day, when CCP suddenly realizes it's not fitting into one of their crazy schemes. Did you read the original devblog about that? The role mentioned there for Domi, if I remember right, was "cavalry"! Like hit and run, or something like that. It means it has to be mobile, paper-thin and otherwise totally ruined. So if we dont discuss how it could be morphed retaining its current role - such insane transmutation can happen. |
Dennis Gregs
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.08.24 18:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dominix is in no way, shape or form overpowered. Not sure what you're smoking. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
150
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 19:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Smart bombs. You can counter drones just fine with them.
The Dominix is a good ship, but it has drawbacks. It gets no tracking bonus, no defensive bonus, and only 6 high slots. It also is Gallente, which needed a buff. Being a tier 1 Gallente BS, is has lower armor than most armor tankers. It also has a split weapon system, although that is acceptable with drones.
A lot of the things that made the ship a threat (ECM, SD, Nos, etc.) have been nerfed. The problem was not the ship, but the modules.
I just spoke to someone who used to pilot them a lot. He had a lot of kills and a lot of losses with that ship.
As for a ship that performs better... Drake/Cane/Maelstrom.
Better is versatility: Typhoon. It has all of the weapons that can change damage and don't use cap. Your Domi can't even fit a missile launcher. It matches utility slots (2 high vs. 2 mid) and can use 3 cap-drain mods, full drones with spares, and either 5 torps or 5 guns. You don't even know what it will hit you with. ECM? Drones and FoF. Add a buffer armor tank and it will laugh at your Domi's cap drain. |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.08.24 21:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
battleships are balanced. Each one has a relatively well defined role, and seems to preform admirably at it without being so ridiculous that it wtfpwns everything else.
Please do not suggest such things again. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 21:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
armor buffer typhoon is monstrous beast. if you want to make it happen: ~ 100k ehp, full flight of ogres, torpedo and autocannon goodines. or stick with one weapon (projectile or missile) and have at least 3 random utility modules.
to repeat me and the others: domi is an awesome ship but in no way overpowered and good as it is. and even when it gets buffed with this whole tiericide initiative, still will have enough drawbacks.
Sinzor Aumer wrote: It would prevent 1700 DPS monster fits
i guess some sort of heavy drone / void blaster combo? sure looks good in evehq but any fast battlecruiser or battleship (tempest ;) ) will just kite you and your drones to death. even cruiser like cynabal in the hands of a experienced pilot might do the job without a good gang in your back raw dps is worth quite little in the regime of battleships. |
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