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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:04:00 -
[1]
Since it now looks pretty certaint the AnthonyKiedis has scammed/defaulted/been banned Ambo and I would like to offer to buy the shares he issued at a price of 650k per share. The reason for this is that he took out collateralised loans with both of us which he then defaulted on. The rise in the value of the collateral gave each of us about 5bil in profits and we both feel that, since some of the collateral was indirectly owned by his investors, the right thing to do is to reimburse them.
The figure of 650k per share was reached by taking the average price that he sold the shares for, 1000 @ 100k and 1000 @ 1.2mil. Unfortunately, we are not able to track who bought which shares and whether any were traded, so the people that bought the first batch cheap will come out better off than those who bought the second batch. Given this, an average price seems the most equitable way to go.
If you wish to sell your shares please send them to either myself or Ambo, along with a mail alerting whoever you send them to. We will then credit you the corresponding amount.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:41:00 -
[2]
I thought those shares were traded in the newbie stock market. Shouldn't the records in the exchange be enough for tracking purposes?
Was the collateral part of the IPO? if so, then it was owned by the share holders. Seems very suspicious that you two are making 10 B in profits while the shareholders are taking a loss.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Banque
Lonely Pear Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:54:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Banque on 23/02/2011 04:03:02
Edit: In order to remove my foot from my mouth... skip straight to 5 Block 
1) He does not actually have to payout anything as he is a debt holder we are shareholders.
2) If the collateral had devalued who would have reimbursed Him?
3) How Raw23 chooses to payout his profit, if at all, it is entirely up to him.
4) Yes i have a vested interest as I am a shareholder. Who otherwise would have written this off as a loss 
5) Bond and IPO were separate
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.23 04:04:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Banque
1) He does not actually have to payout anything as he is a debt holder we are shareholders.
2) If the collateral had devalued who would have reimbursed Him?
3) How Raw23 chooses to payout his profit, if at all, it is entirely up to him.
4) Yes i have a vested interest as I am a shareholder. Who otherwise would have written this off as a loss
1) The proper way is for him to sell the collateral and collect any outstanding debt. What remains belongs to the shareholders.
2) That's why he charges interests, and in many cases lenders required 120% value
3) It is not clear that it is his profit. He can clarified this.
4) Then you should ask for what is yours.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.23 04:10:00 -
[5]
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1377600/page/1
The loans were not part of the IPO and there was a discussion on page 2 concerning the issue Block is raising.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.23 09:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Banque
1) He does not actually have to payout anything as he is a debt holder we are shareholders.
2) If the collateral had devalued who would have reimbursed Him?
3) How Raw23 chooses to payout his profit, if at all, it is entirely up to him.
4) Yes i have a vested interest as I am a shareholder. Who otherwise would have written this off as a loss
1) The proper way is for him to sell the collateral and collect any outstanding debt. What remains belongs to the shareholders.
2) That's why he charges interests, and in many cases lenders required 120% value
3) It is not clear that it is his profit. He can clarified this.
4) Then you should ask for what is yours.
First of all, my understanding is that only the initial issuing of the shares needed to be done via the exchange. There was nothing to prevent people selling, or giving away, their shares off the exchange after purchase. So, given that there can be no certain record of transactions I still think a return of the full value of shareholder equity, averaged out over the two share issues to get a per share value is the best way to go.
As to your four points, firstly, it is worth noting that you miss out point five, which should have informed your views on the other four. The loans were not raised by Gomes as a company, they were raised by AnthonyKiedis as an individual. I thus have no grounds for a secure belief that ANY of the collateral used in these loans was purchased with shareholder isk on behalf of Gomes. The bond collateral must, in any case have been at least primarily purchased with Kiedis' private funds since the collateral value exceed the amount raised in share offering by a factor of 8 or 9. As such, I don't see grounds for considering most of the collateral to have any ties to the shareholders at all. However, on the assumption that shareholder money MAY have been used we have decided to use our profits to make good the losses incurred by the Gomes shareholders, to the extent that the records allow.
In general, your comments here in no way reflect the industry standard. BMBE profits from sales of collateral, as TS has stated a few times. So, I believe, do Cosmo, Grendell and pretty much every other lender I know of. If you really have a problem with this, I would suggest that you suspend the trade in their shares on your exchange whilst you investigate. You may also want to look into AATPH's foundation, during which Ray said he had no obligations at all to EMFI shareholders when he set up the holding company to try to avoid paying dividends on the shares owned by EMFI.
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Krythas
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Posted - 2011.02.23 14:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Krythas on 23/02/2011 14:17:09
Originally by: RAW23
First of all, my understanding is that only the initial issuing of the shares needed to be done via the exchange. There was nothing to prevent people selling, or giving away, their shares off the exchange after purchase. So, given that there can be no certain record of transactions I still think a return of the full value of shareholder equity, averaged out over the two share issues to get a per share value is the best way to go.
This is correct, the only reason share purchases were recommended to be conducted via the third party (cista2 in this case) was so that the spreadsheets could be updated. As a result, if shares were traded outside the market then they were considered to be the seller/buyers problem and would not be honoured if trades were made from unknown entities.
As this company is pretty much in default then obviously these rules would no longer apply. If Raw wants to purchase these shares then a couple of things could happen, one is that its done privately which could be easily workable but make the shares on LLSE pretty much defunct. The other is that an agreement is made with cista2 that they are all purchased by Raw and the spreadsheet updated to reflect this.
This would need cista2s approval obviously and based on the possible status of the character I'd suggest that effort should be made to contact cista2 in any event and list the company as being in default with no further shares being traded. (just to prevent any possibility of confusion)
Said personally, and not as someone involved in the LLSE, Raws offer here is very generous and I think it shows that there are indeed people in MD that are very much community oriented. Its quite a nice breath of fresh air.
Thanks :-)
edit: sorry, obviously the 'rules' would apply if raw for some strange reason got a buyer and wanted to conduct trade through the LLSE then this would no longer be possible but its probably unlikely that this event would take place.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.23 18:59:00 -
[8]
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Due to the impossibility of tracking who has sent shares please discard what I say below about sending shares directly. Instead of just sending the shares with a mail you will need to mail either ambo or myself with a time that you will be on. You will then be asked to send the shares you wish to cash in at a given time. Sorry about this but otherwise it will be impossible to disprove mails claiming that shares have been sent (unless anyone knows how to pull this info).
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:10:00 -
[9]
Just confirming that I am indeed happy to be in on this as well. I'm not on too often atm though. 
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Vagus Bellum
Amarr
Rainbow Fruit Basket
Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Banque
Edited by: Banque on 23/02/2011 04:03:02
Edit: In order to remove my foot from my mouth... skip straight to 5 Block
1) He does not actually have to payout anything as he is a debt holder we are shareholders.
2) If the collateral had devalued who would have reimbursed Him?
3) How Raw23 chooses to payout his profit, if at all, it is entirely up to him.
4) Yes i have a vested interest as I am a shareholder. Who otherwise would have written this off as a loss
5) Bond and IPO were separate
More curious of your own venture.
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