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The State and I

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Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.25 16:24:00 - [1] This is adressed to nobody in particular. It matters not to me what your thoughts or feelings about me or the State are. I am going to give a little history lesson from my point of vieuw. I am biased ofcourse and am not hesitant to admit it. I am Civire In days long ago the influx of new soldiers was lower than was needed for the replenishment of troops lost due to wars we were active in in days long passt. The State in her tactical wisdom decreed that DNA samples of good soldiers were to be harvested and processed in order to start a growthfarm for new soldiers. Mind you, this wasn't about capsuleers with their cloning facilities. Since capsuleers were a far greater investment they had access to clones incase of death. For the normal footfolk this wasn't a reality. So the State started it's research to mass creating their soldiers. There was a rigourous program which was about selecting embryo's on aggresivness, focus, willpower, physique etc. The perfect soldier would obey orders without questioning them. Trusting completely in the tactics of those in the higher ranks. The perfect soldier would always give 100% of his abilities towards the goal and not waver. The perfect soldier wouldn't care about being better than the rest but about getting the job done, regardless of which his task in the whole operation would be. From every batch of Tubes on average 10% was found to be of use for training for special operations. These would be hatched in special tanks to be then further processed into the Special Ops wings. They would be trained in uniformity, making every action a perfect synchronous harmony with the rest of their team. Nothing was left to chance and training was used in every aspect of their time. Down to the messhall. After the initial programs the recruits would be send to one of the offworld bases to start wit the more specialised trainings. There was no need to have too many eyes see how well developed the trainingprograms were. Specially the Gallente would moan and complain about the socalled lack of democracy and free will. Both idea's which have no place in a soldier's mind or heart. A soldier has one duty. To Obey. I was send to a trainingcamp of which I am still not at liberty to reveal it's location. At the moment I am negotiating with certain people in the State which parts I am at liberty to reveal and which parts I still have to hold secret. As soon as that is sorted I will continue my story and once and for all make clear why I am proud to be Caldari and a Civire. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2011.02.25 17:09:00 - [2] Quote: At the moment I am negotiating with certain people in the State which parts I am at liberty to reveal and which parts I still have to hold secret. As soon as that is sorted I will continue my story and once and for all make clear why I am proud to be Caldari and a Civire. Paperwork - the sole driving force behind our state. The more responsibilities you gain, the more paperwork you have to fill out. Then you attain a position of some prestige, and get to hire an underling to do your paperwork, freeing you to earn more money. Of course, earning that amount of money requires more paperwork, and soon you must hire a second underling, and a third, and eventually a company that handles your paperwork for you. Voila, economy!
Jev North Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2011.02.25 18:12:00 - [3] It seems to be a universal constant. I've been doing a few.. things, in, shall we say, a not-officially recognized nation? And they have forms. For everything. To be filled out and entered in triplicate. I'm glad I hired a good pile of administrative staff, not to mention a well-trained pack of attack lawyers.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.25 18:23:00 - [4] Bureaucracy. It is the reason absolute tyrannies don't exist, for to be able to exert utter control over a nation you must have an exceptionally large bureaucracy to ensure your rules are followed to the letter everywhere - and yet creating such a large bureaucracy implicitly delegates quite a lot of power to the bureaucrats. A childhood friend taught me that. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Kahar Dex Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.25 21:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Bureaucracy. It is the reason we didn't re-discover jump-gate technology before the Amarrians. Fixed it for you.
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.02.25 21:52:00 - [6] A good beginning. For the record though, a "perfect soldier" cannot be grown. You can make a clone with as many physical and mental advantages as possible, but it really all comes down to the skill of that clone's teachers and drill instructors. Serving the Dark Amarr
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.25 22:12:00 - [7] What's that, Kahar? Derailing a thread to pretend anything the Amarrians have ever done is impressive except as an example of how low humanity can sink? Oh, and remember that we were using the warp drive - an arguably more important piece of technology - 300 years before you were, and we managed to perform in five hundred years the colonisation it took you two millenia to accomplish. But this thread is not about the Empire. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.25 22:48:00 - [8] Unlike popular demand my current silence on the subject has nothing to do with bureaucratic circumstances but more about obtaining clearances. I also have to disagree with the statement that DNA recombination and selection has nothing to do with creating the perfect soldier. By excluding certain traits which are inherently inbedded in specific RNA strants and including those which you are looking for you are doing exactly as stated. I should have my clearance for unveiling more information by tomorrow. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.26 02:41:00 - [9] Not to seem rude, but I don't quite follow what this topic is for. I mean, we all KNOW about the State's artificial gestation programs. I was one of only two members of my SWAT team not to be conceived, grown and born from a tank. It's not like they're a taboo subject. Some corporations go to rather greater lengths than others - KK's home guard are a bigger, more regimented organization than the Ishukone Watch for instance - but you really aren't describing anything that should come as a shocking surprise to anyone who hasn't had their head under a rock for the last, oh... hundred and fifty years or so. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.02.26 06:34:00 - [10] Sorry for the syntax Gandry. I do think that you can genetically make a superior soldier. But nurture is at least as important as nature. Serving the Dark Amarr
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.27 20:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Stitcher Not to seem rude, but I don't quite follow what this topic is for. This topic isn't about the gestation program, even though there are plenty of capsuleers who aren't fully aware or not aware at all of this. At the moment I am more trying to get through some red tape to reveal some more personal experiences which first need to be unflagged as none classified. This means that some editting will have to be done to protect certain assets of the State. Specially seeing that some fundaments were laid years ago and are still an ongoin process. Hence my story takes a bit longer to be told and will remain incomplete till all is deemed none confidential. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Jan Kesler Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.28 09:24:00 - [12] I have to disagree with you on some level. While I mostly agree on what you're saying, your definition about a "perfect soldier" is - in my personal opinion - a bit off. Although you stated, that you little care about what other might say or think, I will, too, make a statement. Perfect soldier is not one who would follow orders without questioning them. A war should be fought between soldiers, for the protection of the people. If a soldier is ordered to execute a civilian, the soldier should question the order, for following that order one would no longer be fighting a war, but participating in a murder. Now this is of course just an example scenario. Secondly; a war should be fought in a manner, that puts an end to it in as little time as possible, with as little unnecessary suffering as possible. Should one be ordered to bombard a planet or a station without any benefit, such as a civilian target without any military activity, would cause many unnecessary casualties, unnecessary damage and is not only complete waste of resources, but will also anger the victim and, possibly, drive them into executing similar tasks. Soldiers are not only made to obey, but to protect and help.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Jan Kesler Edited by: Jan Kesler on 28/02/2011 10:08:58 I have to disagree with you on some level. While I mostly agree on what you're saying, your definition about a "perfect soldier" is - in my personal opinion - a bit off. Although you stated, that you little care about what other might say or think, I will, too, make a statement. Perfect soldier is not one who would follow orders without questioning them. You Sir are more infected by Gallente idea's of personal freedom and Democracy than you might think. The State has no use for soldiers who wander about, questioning every order which might seem a tad disturbing to the weaker minded. Originally by: Jan Kesler A war should be fought between soldiers, for the protection of the people. Are you sure you ever grasped the concept of the States being? Originally by: Jan Kesler If a soldier is ordered to execute a civilian, the soldier should question the order, for following that order one would no longer be fighting a war, but participating in a murder. Now this is of course just an example scenario. And you know the reasoning behind that execution? You have all the background information? So you ôchooseö to ignore orders and then a few weeks or months later that same civilian you spared is trailed and found guilty of hideous crimes. Some of them committed after you spared him. Well done Sir. Your concious is clear from killing that civilian because to ignored an order. As long as you arenÆt aware of the whole picture who are you to question orders? Originally by: Jan Kesler Secondly; a war should be fought in a manner, that puts an end to it in as little time as possible, with as little unnecessary suffering as possible. Suffering is arbitrary, if more suffering leads to less willingness to take up arms against the State then more suffering will be inflicted. Originally by: Jan Kesler Should one be ordered to bombard a planet or a station without any benefit, such as a civilian target without any military activity, would cause many unnecessary casualties, unnecessary damage and is not only complete waste of resources, but will also anger the victim and, possibly, drive them into executing similar tasks. Counterquestion: That station or planet harbours a scientist who is developing a viral agent to whipe out countless of lives on contless of planets. He wonÆt be handed over by the station manager or planets government. Only option is wait and pray you can somehow prevent him from either escaping the planet / station with the agent or send the data over to someone else who will then produce it and use it. So you go sit and wait like a nice boy. I will follow orders and blow up the station or bombard the planet. Once again you might not have all the information just because you arenÆt in the need-to-know list. Originally by: Jan Kesler Officers, who give such an order should, in my opinion, be executed; as well as soldiers who execute such an act, while under an order that denies it. Officers who give such orders wont give them without higher up approval. Do you really think a State officer would give such an order without having approval from far far up the chain? Officers and soldiers who execute those orders should get a medal for performing their duty under the hardest of circumstances. Originally by: Jan Kesler Soldiers are not only made to obey, but to protect and help. Soldiers are made to obey the State, protect the State and help the State. Any actions which benefit the wellbeing of the State falls under helping the State. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Kor Shivat Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.16 01:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Sinjin Mokk For the record though, a "perfect soldier" cannot be grown. You can make a clone with as many physical and mental advantages as possible, but it really all comes down to the skill of that clone's teachers and drill instructors. It is also said: "Don't shove a Brutor into a Sebiestor's hole." Of course, my Amarrian sponsors have confused this in a variety of entertaining ways, but I digress.
Boma Airaken White Song Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.03.16 09:48:00 - [15] THE STATE AND YOU?!??! THE SATE AND YOU?!?!? THERE NEVER WAS YOU IN THE STATE YOU BELLIGERENT **ANT?! WHO THE ** DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!?!?!
Jev North Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2011.03.16 13:06:00 - [16] He's being a bit of a drone, grant you that, but then he's a tuber. Doesn't warrant an outburst like that, man. Relax. Score you some Frentix, it'll clear that headache right up.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.16 14:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Boma Airaken THE STATE AND YOU?!??! THE SATE AND YOU?!?!? THERE NEVER WAS YOU IN THE STATE YOU BELLIGERENT **ANT?! WHO THE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!?!?! And that outburst alone proves you would make a sorry excuse for a soldier. A soldier doesn't use his emotions when doing his work or in conversations with others. A soldier will make use of other people's emotions though. After years of service to the State I gained my "Freedom" to persue my own goals. Ofcourse my services can still be hired by the State. But I have earned the right to be a full fledged citizin and pilot. This meant I started to carve out my own path and find people with whom I can identify myself. People who don't limit themselves in their minds, hearts of idea's due to conventional limitations. The only ones I have found that fit into this are the Sani Sabik. I know I would be the perfect Sani Sabik and I also know the State would profit a lot of engaging with the Sani Sabik in business. I know I am proud to be Caldari, but I am equally proud to be Sani Sabik. If they will accept me into their ranks. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.**
Revan Neferis Amarr Propaganda Due	Posted - 2011.03.16 14:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Killer Gandry The only ones I have found that fit into this are the Sani Sabik. I know I would be the perfect Sani Sabik and I also know the State would profit a lot of engaging with the Sani Sabik in business. I know I am proud to be Caldari, but I am equally proud to be Sani Sabik. If they will accept me into their ranks. Interesting statement and dangerous one. I'm listening. RN Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Instinctively you come to me, cause your an addict and you'll have it. You don't want to be free.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.16 14:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Revan Neferis Interesting statement and dangerous one. I'm listening. RN Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik I don't really see the danger in this statement. Even though Rodj Blake from Pie would strongly disagree seeing he needed to let me know personally that he doesn't like me anymore. I do wonder why he thinks I would care. Life without challenges and goals are boring. I like both challenges and goals. And I don't limit my path to overcome those challenges and to reach my goals with trivial matters like honor or humanity. I get what I want. be it short term or long term. So you see dear Miss Neferis, in fact I am plainly stating that I will be accepted as a Sani Sabik. Be it now or later, there is no way around it since it is one of my goals. I am admitting to have an own personal feeling of pride to show this publicly since I know how rattled some people will be by reading this admission of mine. The State would benefit from interacting with the Sani Sabik by mere logical reasoning. Anyone thinking the State is a wellfare unit with intrest in the wellbeing of those who are needy are wrong. The State wants it's citizins to be self sufficidnt. Anyone not able to provide for themselves has to look at it's own inabilities. I believe there are sheep and there are herders and I am one of the herders. The State has a great programm to create people who rise above the rest. So in a way the State believes the same as the Sani Sabik. There are those who are born for greatness and those who only live to feed and breed these geniuses. I know I rise above the normal playingfield, so hence my statement. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Revan Neferis Amarr Propaganda Due	Posted - 2011.03.16 17:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Killer Gandry There are those who are born for greatness and those who only live to feed and breed these geniuses. One of the chapters of our book of Initiations reads: "My disciples are proud and beautiful; they are strong and swift; they rule their way like mighty conquerors. The weak, the timid, the imperfect, the cowardly, the poor, the tearful ù these are my enemies, and I am come to destroy them." Originally by: Killer Gandry I know I rise above the normal playingfield, so hence my statement. A common theme in our Faith is strength over weakness. ôPower, Isk, Beauty and Strength, Pleasures unrestricted and delicious languor, force and fire, are of usö Those destined to be Sani Sabik will come naturally to us and they will know that our love is always bold, assertive, even orgiastic but there is delicacy, and it is the delicacy of power. I like your statement and your conviction Gandry. True Will is one's ultimate purpose for being. RN Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Instinctively you come to me, cause your an addict and you'll have it. You don't want to be free.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.16 22:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Revan Neferis Before I forget, just a note to you that you might find interesting. It has happened before. I have financed a few wars in business associations with Caldari High Rank officers such as: 2008.08.24 16:25 Pandemic Legion has declared war on The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.. After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. 2008.08.24 16:26 Pandemic Legion has declared war on Strix Armaments and Defence. After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. 2008.08.24 22:24 Pandemic Legion has declared war on CHON. After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. There were more along the years too and I'm always pleased to make profitable associations no matter to me with who and why, as long as it fits my interests at the current moment. RN Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik I was already aware of those. I myself however prefer to keep my passt actions a bit more concealed. This due to the tensions it might bring with current of future associates. But I too use any tool at hand to get done what I want or think is needed to be done. Why would I limit myself by restrictions many people love to put onto themselves. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Revan Neferis Amarr Propaganda Due	Posted - 2011.03.17 16:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Killer Gandry I know I am proud to be Caldari, but I am equally proud to be Sani Sabik. If they will accept me into their ranks. Bring me that Amarrian rare box of cigars and we will proceed with this discussion at the Opera one of these days. I believe we have sidetracked your thread a little. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Instinctively you come to me, cause your an addict and you'll have it. You don't want to be free.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.03.17 16:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Revan Neferis Originally by: Killer Gandry I know I am proud to be Caldari, but I am equally proud to be Sani Sabik. If they will accept me into their ranks. Bring me that Amarrian rare box of cigars and we will proceed with this discussion at the Opera one of these days. I believe we have sidetracked your thread a little. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik I am glad you can taste them again my love. Join the Revolution!
Revan Neferis Amarr Propaganda Due	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Jade Constantine I am glad you can taste them again my love. But of course my delight. My Universe would be less bright if I ever had to be deprived of feeling the exotic blend of the finest cigars touched with the sweetness of your kisses. This combination makes perfect for me to linger in such uniquely tastey dream. Instinctively you come to me, cause your an addict and you'll have it. You don't want to be free.
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.17 20:28:00 - [25] I'm not sure what your CDS told you while you were maturing, but I assumed it was only outside races that believed the "super soldier" conspiracy about the tube child programs. We were born to fill the gap in the population left after the war. Whoever funded your development failed you if they gave you the idea that any of us were built for a special purpose.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.17 20:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Senn Typhos We were born to fill the gap in the population left after the war. You just keep believing that. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:20:00 - [27] "Belief" implies faith. I'm stating a fact. You aren't special. Expendable as the rest of the cluster. Tube children were born because of a shortage, not as part of some underground clandestine army. If you need that lie to sleep at night, that's your problem, not one you should bring to a public forum.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:25:00 - [28] I am guessing you're from the Omega-357-GY batch. I'll check to make sure. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Jan Kesler Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.17 22:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Killer Gandry You Sir are more infected by Gallente idea's of personal freedom and Democracy than you might think. The State has no use for soldiers who wander about, questioning every order which might seem a tad disturbing to the weaker minded. Then, perhaps, I should defect to the Federation? Mere respect towards them is not, as far as I know, an infection of their ideas. Originally by: Killer Gandry And you know the reasoning behind that execution? You have all the background information? So you ôchooseö to ignore orders and then a few weeks or months later that same civilian you spared is trailed and found guilty of hideous crimes. Some of them committed after you spared him. Did I ever say I would choose to ignore orders? No. I said question; ponder on whether it is the right thing to do. It is okay to use your brains, the magnificent tool of intelligence. And I am yet to receive an order from the high command not to do to. Also you speak about crimes, while I speak of war. Crimes are to be solved by the local militia; wars are to be solved between the armies of two nations. But either way: A civilian is always a civilian. Should my subordinate loot from a civilian or in any way disturb a non-military person I would order the man in question to be shot. Originally by: Killer Gandry Suffering is arbitrary, if more suffering leads to less willingness to take up arms against the State then more suffering will be inflicted. It is because of people who think like this that these wars can never end... Originally by: Killer Gandry Counterquestion: That station or planet harbours a scientist who is developing a viral agent to whipe out countless of lives on contless of planets. He wonÆt be handed over by the station manager or planets government. Only option is wait and pray you can somehow prevent him from either escaping the planet / station with the agent or send the data over to someone else who will then produce it and use it. So you go sit and wait like a nice boy. I will follow orders and blow up the station or bombard the planet. Once again you might not have all the information just because you arenÆt in the need-to-know list. There are many ways to get this scientist to your hands - and annihilating an entire planet and its population should not be one of them. Originally by: Killer Gandry Officers who give such orders wont give them without higher up approval. Do you really think a State officer would give such an order without having approval from far far up the chain? In fact, yes I would. I have witnessed few such cases, where the higher chain of command had no idea of the current events, because they were carried out by "such officers." Blame me of being brainwashed by the Gallente propaganda machine, or call me a traitor; I know I am neither one. And as far as I know we are allowed for our opinions within the State - both you and me.
Killer Gandry Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 01:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Jan Kesler insert bunch of Gallente propaganda If you would be in a fleet I lead and start to question orders in the middle of an ongoing operation you would be kicked out of the fleet faster than you can say your name. There is no room for discussion in ongoing operations. Save that till the operation is completed. Then again the more softer State citizin's prefer to believe they hold their own future in their hands. Simply because some just can't stand the horror of facing reality that they are mere herd to the higher glory of the State. Do not for one minute think that if the State can benefit from your demise that you would be safe from State assassins. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.

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