EVE Search - The only way CCP will get bears in LowSec

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The only way CCP will get bears in LowSec

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2011.02.26 21:49:00 - [1] CCP has clearly stated that they would like to increase the population of low sec but have been unable to encourage players to ôjump the wallö as one dev put it. They have increased the ISK opportunities as high as they reasonably can but still the only regular inhabitants are the relatively few pirates and FW groups that sweep through it. Clearly, adding more reward is not the answer. To determine what the answer is one first has to understand why the Carebear population wonÆt go in. The answer to that is actually simple. There is no place to hide once you are there. A Carebear is much like any prey animal; they will shy away from open spaces and positions that leave them defenseless. They seek the cover of tall grass and thick trees so that the predators canÆt easily see them from a distance. As it stands today, low sec, and virtually all of Eve is akin to an open savanna with out even the tall grass. The only safety a bear could find is in numbers so great that the predators would be put off. Unfortunately the predators of eve are numerous and brave so gathering large enough herds to provide protection is impossible. So what to do? To me, the answer is to add large numbers of sensor dead areas that contain the belts and mission sites that bears are attracted to. Make those sites themselves large and detectable with probes but also that no ship within it can be probed out. This would mean that the hunters would have to actually go there to see if it was occupied. Once there they would have to actually sneak up on and hunt their prey. Yes, it would be extremely difficult to catch and kill a bear in such a spot and that is the entire point. There would be a real chance in the bears mind that he might actually be able to survive an attack. To those who hunt, I would point out that you still have your gate camps and you still have the stations, both of which would act as the waterhole does in the savannas. Sooner or later the bears must come to both and this is where you would have your best chance to pounce. Now, I am certain that many players will find fault with this but I can assure you as a bear, you will never see large amounts of bear traffic in low sec as long as local shows everyone who is there and as long as a D-scan can find you from a great distance. We may not be warriors but we are not foolish either. This problem wonÆt be solved until that fact is accepted.
Transius Porta	Posted - 2011.02.26 21:53:00 - [2] "So what to do? To me, the answer is to add large numbers of sensor dead areas that contain the belts and mission sites that bears are attracted to. Make those sites themselves large and detectable with probes but also that no ship within it can be probed out. This would mean that the hunters would have to actually go there to see if it was occupied. Once there they would have to actually sneak up on and hunt their prey" Yeeh, that's basicly wormhole space right there except the un-probeable ship part, but WH doesn't have local to tip people off so guess it weighs up..
Bronden Neopatus	Posted - 2011.02.26 22:12:00 - [3] Even simpler, make mission runners both invulnerable and harmless (take no damage, do no damage) to player ships while they are in a mission. Or at least while the time bonus ticks on, to prevent people abusing the feature. Another great idea I just came up was that anyone firing on a neutral ship was criminal flagged to everyone else but his own corp. That would make gate ganking so much fun! Also would be fine to put a negative insurance on gankers -rather than get an insurance for having their ship concordokken, they would pay a fine for littering with their wrecks! Whoaaah! Even funnier! Now seriously, whatever it means to F*** the gankers and their "gameplay", it's fine with me.
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2011.02.26 22:23:00 - [4] Originally by: Transius Porta "So what to do? To me, the answer is to add large numbers of sensor dead areas that contain the belts and mission sites that bears are attracted to. Make those sites themselves large and detectable with probes but also that no ship within it can be probed out. This would mean that the hunters would have to actually go there to see if it was occupied. Once there they would have to actually sneak up on and hunt their prey" Yeeh, that's basicly wormhole space right there except the un-probeable ship part, but WH doesn't have local to tip people off so guess it weighs up.. Thats very true, it would be much like WH space. Funny thing is CCP doesn't seem to have trouble getting bears to go into WH's
raney ilara	Posted - 2011.02.27 01:21:00 - [5] Quote: Thats very true, it would be much like WH space. Funny thing is CCP doesn't seem to have trouble getting bears to go into WH's Really...? You make it sound like carebears are flooding the wormholes..and there is no way to verify this as local gives no clues. I suspect wh space is just as empty as most lowsec though.
Kalia Masaer Amarr Border Defense Consortium	Posted - 2011.02.27 01:29:00 - [6] WH space has some huge advantages for bears. First they don't have to run a gauntlet of pirates too get there. Second those bears who go their are generally better organized than the average. Third the rewards in WHs are enough to be worth the risk. Fourth WHs limit the number of enemies that can come in, meaning that often the bears who have been inhabiting the WH often have greater numbers and resources than their attackers, including a POS to regroup, and form up in. Areas of dead space in which ships could not be probed would add a great deal of interest to low sec as it wouldn't stop pirates from camping those areas cloaked but would make it easier for a miner or ratter to have a sometime before they were located.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.02.27 01:38:00 - [7] Originally by: raney ilara Quote: Thats very true, it would be much like WH space. Funny thing is CCP doesn't seem to have trouble getting bears to go into WH's Really...? You make it sound like carebears are flooding the wormholes..and there is no way to verify this as local gives no clues. I suspect wh space is just as empty as most lowsec though. It is roughly just as empty. Max # of folks you'll find in a WH is about 4-6 at a given time, counting the "permanent residents". They're not really carebears most of the time either, but mostly people who are fairly willing to PvP if it comes to them, but not always looking for it. And why are carebears not flooding the wormholes? Same reason they're not flooding low sec. Although, with gatecamps (static entry points), local (basically an alarm bell for the entire system), and residents (pirates) who can easily stay well-supplied and live in low sec, I'd say low sec deters carebears a bit more than wormholes. I still say that, if they want to make low sec more populated, then they need to bridge the gap between the full t2 fit nighthawk user and the t1 fit drake user, etc., but that will never happen, so oh well...
GizzyBoy	Posted - 2011.02.27 03:04:00 - [8] Im going to say home advantage plays alot into things, pvpers and pirates already setup, with blue status with other locals a dedicated intel channel and possibly scouts sitting on high sec side of gates watching., all manner of ready to go ships, potentially clones one - 2 jumps away, care bears just visiting or passing through, stands little to no chance. in a wh its not gaurented safe, as the regular 7-15 man teams that raid them on a continual basis will point out. with some organization, a bit of care and planning you can still get ahead and take the odd loss on the chin. and as your wh moves every day, you arn't prey to the same group of people every single day.
Mitsune Konno	Posted - 2011.02.27 03:27:00 - [9] sounds like wormholes. =\
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.27 03:55:00 - [10] I have an easier solution: Jita becomes 0.4

Mitsune Konno	Posted - 2011.02.27 04:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa I have an easier solution: Jita becomes 0.4 then they'd just make perimeter the new hub.
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.02.27 04:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa I have an easier solution: Jita becomes 0.4 or they could change all low sec areas to .5
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.02.27 04:51:00 - [13] All proposals like this assume that the risk/reward ratio is limited to isk. Make the isk reward high enough, and the high sec occupants will take the risk of losing isk. But the risk is not isk. For many, the stress of a PvP encounter leaves them feeling sick and depressed for a day, or more. No matter how large a number you put on the screen, its not worth it. For those who get the adrenaline rush, imagine that that rush left you feeling not energized and excited, but totally drained and horrid. (According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, this different reaction of different people is genetic. We are born to get the rush, or we are not). So what can be done with low sec? I do not think much, other than accept it as it is.
Kalia Masaer Amarr Border Defense Consortium	Posted - 2011.02.27 05:02:00 - [14] Or maybe they should just turn all of low sec into limited NPC 0.0 where if you commit aggression you are still criminally flagged but so the guns fire at you but don't take a sec hit except for podding someone. It would be safer than it is now as those who weren't pirates could attack suspicious people with getting beat out of high sec with sec damage. Which is probably as big a deterrent for carebear fleets going into low sec as the pirates themselves. Something like this should be easy to implement as it only requires change a few values in the spread sheet. The ultimate way would be to make it so attacking someone with a high sec status >+3 will still give you a criminal hit as well as decrease the sec status gain for rats killed in low-sec and 0.0. Though this would take a rewrite of some flagging mechanics.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.27 05:03:00 - [15] Quote: The only way CCP will get bears in LowSec Is to create a Grizzly Class Mining ship that has "full" defensive capability while maintaining nearly full mining ability.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.27 05:06:00 - [16] Quote: But the risk is not isk. For many, the stress of a PvP encounter leaves them feeling sick and depressed for a day, or more. No matter how large a number you put on the screen, its not worth it. Not to mention the waste of time after they are deprived of the ore they mined for an hour. It's better to mine elsewhere with shabby minerals for an hour than lose an hours work/playtime.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.02.27 06:22:00 - [17] Mission Runners are often alts of PvPers looking to make isk to PvP while playing solo. They won't go somewhere that increases the time it takes to support their PvP. Losing ships to Pirates is a significant impact to that. Many other players would be looking for a net increase in profits over what they can get in HiSec. The rewards would have to be a lot better than they are now to give them a net increase. Problem is that that will attract the attention of much larger organizations looking to farm that resource. While not covered in OP, if you simply move Lvl 4s to lowsec, you don't change the issue of net profit over losses. You would simply get players looking for something else to make their PvP isk. Players will not go to lowsec to run Lvl 4s because they would consistently loose more ships than they could supply and still make a net profit. I feel that many Lowsec PvPers have a distorted view on how often they can kill PvEers or fellow PvPers and still have them come back. A player needs a way to support himself and most cannot do it by selling PLEX alone. To be honest, for the supply of "kills" that the pirates "demand" you would need a "Carebear" population exponentially larger in order for them to still make a reasonable profit over their losses, or make it far harder for pirates to kill them. The pirates would cry a river bigger than the Nile over that. Something is broke, but I think it may simply be players perceptions of what Lowsec "should" be.
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.02.27 06:35:00 - [18] Another option would be to have semi-random sized Faction Navy spawns in place of Concord in Lowsec. Give the PvPers a chance to destroy the PvEer, but have increasing sized FN spawns for them to deal with while they are doing it. They will get overwhelmed by the FN spawns eventually, but it takes longer the lower the Sys Sec rating is. Could be interesting.
Suiginryou Hitaiga Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.27 07:19:00 - [19] A surprisingly good idea. But, I think, soon there will be gangs roaming the unprobable sites on regular basis. Considering all the nice things pirates have (like instalocks on every mining or mission ship), there will be a few waves of migration from hisec to lowsec, but they will come to a halt since its natural for prey animals to ignore rich yet dangerous areas if there are less dangerous (yet not as rich) zones with no one to catch them at the waterhole. ___ Remove insurance payouts for concord kills Make wardecs expensive and declinable Make SS go -1.0 per offense Remove L4 agents from hisec Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2011.02.27 07:52:00 - [20] Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 27/02/2011 07:52:09 Fun fact: there is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with lowsec as is. Signature removed.

Suiginryou Hitaiga Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.27 08:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Fun fact: there is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with lowsec as is. No shft, Sherlock. But why all the whine about low population at lowsec then? ^_^ ___ Remove insurance payouts for concord kills Make wardecs expensive and declinable Make SS go -1.0 per offense Remove L4 agents from hisec Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2011.02.27 08:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Fun fact: there is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with lowsec as is. No shft, Sherlock. But why all the whine about low population at lowsec then? ^_^ Because there are a lot of very whiny idiots who don't live there or who came and found it to be too demanding for their liking. Signature removed.
Bronden Neopatus	Posted - 2011.02.27 08:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Fun fact: there is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with lowsec as is. No shft, Sherlock. But why all the whine about low population at lowsec then? ^_^ Must add: and such whine comes from PvP. We PvE are pretty happy in hisec and wormholes. Not having prey for ganks is ganker's matter, not carebears'. And as was pointed above, and as a CCP developer pointed out too, lowsec is not more populated because carebears hate losing ships and wasting their time. They call that "the Wall" and it means lowsec is completely hopeless. A carebear with corp baclup will go into wormholes, not into lowsec. Of course, there is at least one safe spot in lowsec where a carebear corp could make a living. But it's one single system in 20,000... and so it's a piece of intelligence worth billions.
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2011.03.02 09:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga A surprisingly good idea. But, I think, soon there will be gangs roaming the unprobable sites on regular basis. Considering all the nice things pirates have (like instalocks on every mining or mission ship), there will be a few waves of migration from hisec to lowsec, but they will come to a halt since its natural for prey animals to ignore rich yet dangerous areas if there are less dangerous (yet not as rich) zones with no one to catch them at the waterhole. I thought of that to. It would help to have several such sites in each system and each of those sites being several hundred KMs across. Still, the insta lock issue is real. I would like to see a skill set that would give you a chance of breaking a scram. That way at least being pointed would not equate to certain death.
Suiginryou Hitaiga Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.02 09:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga No shft, Sherlock. But why all the whine about low population at lowsec then? ^_^ Because there are a lot of very whiny idiots who don't live there or who came and found it to be too demanding for their liking. Why idiots then? They'd be such if they stayed despite lolsec being too demanding. ___ Remove insurance payouts for concord kills Make wardecs expensive and declinable Make SS go -1.0 per offense Remove L4 agents from hisec Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining
Ravenal The Fated E.Y	Posted - 2011.03.02 15:47:00 - [26] Feeling of HUGE Ye... easy really. .
Sakaras Lane	Posted - 2011.03.02 19:23:00 - [27] The simple solution to this is to make all locals low sec and null sec like WH space, the bear can the hide within the ships on scan at pos's and so on, and the hunter can hide in the grass as well.
Woodman2	Posted - 2011.03.02 19:45:00 - [28] If people don't want to go to low sec, so what? The ad for the game said we could do what we wanted to, start forcing people to do things they don't want to do will just mean they will go find another game to play. If you enjoy being a low sec pirate, fine, go prey on other low sec pirates instead of whining on the forums that you don't have enough defenseless bears to kill.
Zircon Dasher	Posted - 2011.03.02 21:56:00 - [29] Its whining by groups of people who need/want to stay in a set number of systems. A large pride may have to follow the herds across many miles. A single lion can get his fill from even the most meager of holdings. To boost low requires something of a counter intuitive position. Nerf the ever-luvin-crap out of it. No moon minerals, no real use in logistics, scatter the high-level agents to the winds, incentivize medium size corps/alliances to move to NPC0.0 or Sov 0.0, and make FW take place in high-sec. Do this, and about a year later the zebra will return.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.02 22:02:00 - [30] I didnt like living in 0.0, Id look outside and there are about 20 station campers with a carrier and none of my corpies are on so im like meh. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.