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Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:15:00 - [1] Hello All, I've started a new thread for this post as the other thread it was in is very engaged in another discussion: In regards to how to improve pvp in high, low and null space. I know this sounds crazy, but if warp scramblers and disruptors were removed from eve, I think more people would pvp, why? because they'd think there was a chance to get away. In addition you'd need a way to follow someone who warped off ( a perfect ability for frigates), and no I don't mean scanning, I mean heart pounding, right click on space and track! The you win or lose, period in pvp due to warp disruptors and scramblers really discourages pvp, don't get me wrong, I love them, but they do contribute strongly to the current state of pvp. Best, AG *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:20:00 - [2] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel because they'd think there was a chance to get away And they'd be right. If by 'chance' you mean 'guarantee'. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
sableye principle of motion	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:20:00 - [3] Edited by: sableye on 03/03/2011 15:24:19 Edited by: sableye on 03/03/2011 15:21:47 hardly anyone but a fool would lose a ship, bye bye eve economy. I think what would increase it is aerna's we can fight in, frig on frig they scared todo it though in case it affects 0.0 pvp to much. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:23:00 - [4] So, you mean, the only way to kill somebody was to alpha them out of existence before they can align and warp off ? Or you have to keep bumping them to prevent them from warping ? What kind of PvP is that anyway ? No, thanks. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Akita T So, you mean, the only way to kill somebody was to alpha them out of existence before they can align and warp off ? Or you have to keep bumping them to prevent them from warping ? What kind of PvP is that anyway ? No, thanks. Hey, nothing wrong with a bit of space humping. Lowsec is like rockets - nobody uses that content, why fix it?
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:37:00 - [6] Just replace warp disruptors with sub-system targeting. Give the ships' warpdrives a much smaller sig than the ships themselves and allow players to target and destroy them. Smaller ships would be more effective at stopping other ships than ships of the same size.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:41:00 - [7] That's totally alienating. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Tychus Grim	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Just replace warp disruptors with sub-system targeting. Give the ships' warpdrives a much smaller sig than the ships themselves and allow players to target and destroy them. Smaller ships would be more effective at stopping other ships than ships of the same size. Could you go into detail w/ subsystem targeting? Do you mean targeting of just engines or do you mean targeting weapons.. shield generators.. ?
Kieron VonDeux	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Tychus Grim Could you go into detail w/ subsystem targeting? Do you mean targeting of just engines or do you mean targeting weapons.. shield generators.. ? It's something the Devs suggested several years ago but haven't implemented yet. It could be anything you suggested or the follwoing non-slot(hi/mid/low) related... sub-light engines warp-drive jump-drive targeting systems capacitor electronics engineering Damaging systems could make them less effective. IE; reducing navigation speed, slower warp speed, can't jump as far, not as much cap available, reduced fitting that offlines slots. This is a mix of what I read in that past and some of my own ideas.
Lady Cazana	Posted - 2011.03.03 16:59:00 - [10] Edited by: Lady Cazana on 03/03/2011 16:59:28 who would die? and what will happen to those who live off tears?
Waylan Yutani Gallente Order of the Seraphim	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:24:00 - [11] just make neuts turret based, kthx :)
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Just replace warp disruptors with sub-system targeting. Give the ships' warpdrives a much smaller sig than the ships themselves and allow players to target and destroy them. Smaller ships would be more effective at stopping other ships than ships of the same size. I could agree with that 100% *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:28:00 - [13] No. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:31:00 - [14] Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 03/03/2011 18:32:08 I am not suggesting that everyone simply be able to run away, there would have to obviously be other changes as well. Such as anyone involved in a combat can't dock or gate for X period of time, whether you fired or you did not. So your ability to run and stay moving would enhance you survival. If you could jump into low sec, pick a fight and then run, although not become immune to pvp, then I think others would give it a shot. Another possibility would be warp disruptors could allow subsytem targeting, but to grant 100% you're stuck and I kill you now really limits the type of pvp combat available. Please understand I am not saying the warp disruptors or warp scramblers are broken, too powerful or any other such nonsense, just that their introduction shapes pvp more than any other module in the game, so should we revisit them? That is the point of this thread. Originally by: Waylan Yutani just make neuts turret based, kthx :) Of this change I'd be 100% a fan. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Misstress Iteron	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:34:00 - [15] Well this would make pvp in a hauler an impossible task
Conor Todaki 1st. Pariah Malefactor corp. The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Originally by: Tychus Grim Could you go into detail w/ subsystem targeting? Do you mean targeting of just engines or do you mean targeting weapons.. shield generators.. ? It's something the Devs suggested several years ago but haven't implemented yet. It could be anything you suggested or the follwoing non-slot(hi/mid/low) related... sub-light engines warp-drive jump-drive targeting systems capacitor electronics engineering Damaging systems could make them less effective. IE; reducing navigation speed, slower warp speed, can't jump as far, not as much cap available, reduced fitting that offlines slots. This is a mix of what I read in that past and some of my own ideas. +1 It'll add a diferent aspect to eve for sure.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Kieron VonDeux Originally by: Tychus Grim Could you go into detail w/ subsystem targeting? Do you mean targeting of just engines or do you mean targeting weapons.. shield generators.. ? It's something the Devs suggested several years ago but haven't implemented yet. It could be anything you suggested or the follwoing non-slot(hi/mid/low) related... sub-light engines warp-drive jump-drive targeting systems capacitor electronics engineering Damaging systems could make them less effective. IE; reducing navigation speed, slower warp speed, can't jump as far, not as much cap available, reduced fitting that offlines slots. This is a mix of what I read in that past and some of my own ideas. oh oh oh oh I even know what we can call it!! Call it "Star Trek Online"!! oh wait....
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Hello All, I've started a new thread for this post as the other thread it was in is very engaged in another discussion: In regards to how to improve pvp in high, low and null space. I know this sounds crazy, but if warp scramblers and disruptors were removed from eve, I think more people would pvp, why? because they'd think there was a chance to get away. In addition you'd need a way to follow someone who warped off ( a perfect ability for frigates), and no I don't mean scanning, I mean heart pounding, right click on space and track! The you win or lose, period in pvp due to warp disruptors and scramblers really discourages pvp, don't get me wrong, I love them, but they do contribute strongly to the current state of pvp. Best, AG This was a bad idea the other times you posted it and it's a bad idea now. It has always been a bad idea, and it always will be a bad idea. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Qui Rune	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:25:00 - [19] Here's my solution: 1.Reduce the Security Limitations of Bomb Launchers to be used from .4 to Null 2.Create a requirement for Fleet Battle Kills such as a minimum of 25 or 50 Solo Kills before you can get credit for Fleet Kills: This could encourage more 1v1 engagements. 3. Revamp High Sec: a. 1.0 to 0.8 = Leave alone b. .7 to .5 = Limited or No concord involvement with cruiser class to frigate class engagements. (BC+ will still get Concorded as usual) c. 0.4 to Null = Leave alone Just my 0.2 ISK
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Hello All, I've started a new thread for this post as the other thread it was in is very engaged in another discussion: In regards to how to improve pvp in high, low and null space. I know this sounds crazy, but if warp scramblers and disruptors were removed from eve, I think more people would pvp, why? because they'd think there was a chance to get away. In addition you'd need a way to follow someone who warped off ( a perfect ability for frigates), and no I don't mean scanning, I mean heart pounding, right click on space and track! The you win or lose, period in pvp due to warp disruptors and scramblers really discourages pvp, don't get me wrong, I love them, but they do contribute strongly to the current state of pvp. Best, AG This was a bad idea the other times you posted it and it's a bad idea now. It has always been a bad idea, and it always will be a bad idea. I appreciated your feedback last time, and I am happy you took the time to read again this time. My primary issue with warp disruptors is that they govern the majority of pvp outside of a blob setting. If you're not within 24 km, you're not fighting for real. I would like to find an alternative way to have pvp while opening up the range and style of fights. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel My primary issue with warp disruptors is that they govern the majority of pvp outside of a blob setting. If you're not within 24 km, you're not fighting for real. I would like to find an alternative way to have pvp while opening up the range and style of fights. What the hell are you talking about? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Cailais Amarr Neo-Tech Solutions	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:41:00 - [22] Well we used to have warp core stabs - and fitting them was extremely common. The trouble being was that players got very frustrated by the inability to pin a ship down and execute a kills. Both Nanos and ECM had a similar effect at the height of their powers - a ship fleeing creates frustration for the pursuer, a sense that they've been cheated out of a kill. With that in mind I wouldn't argue for a removal of scrams completely. That said the loss of these more defensive measures probably has gone too far in the opposite direction so there may be room for something else. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:43:00 - [23] Edited by: Aessoroz on 03/03/2011 23:43:44 RISK FREE RATTING IN NULL! Also being able to rat in motherships as well.
Eyup Mi'duck	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:43:00 - [24] Scramblerrs and disruptors, NO... leave them in the game as they are targetable pvp. BUT you can get rid of the indiscriminate bubbles, they really do discourage pvp.
Grumpymunky	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel My primary issue with warp disruptors is that they govern the majority of pvp outside of a blob setting. If you're not within 24 km, you're not fighting for real. I would like to find an alternative way to have pvp while opening up the range and style of fights. So give them a 24km falloff as well.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Apollo Gabriel My primary issue with warp disruptors is that they govern the majority of pvp outside of a blob setting. If you're not within 24 km, you're not fighting for real. I would like to find an alternative way to have pvp while opening up the range and style of fights. What the hell are you talking about? Of all modules that can be fit to a ship, Warp Disruptors and Scramblers dictate combat more than any other module. I am not saying that I think they should be removed, however given there has been a lot of discussion about how increase the number people participating in pvp, I thought I would make a thread saying what I though was the number one reason people do NOT participate, that being, no escape if you ** up. Of all types of electronic warfare, the one constant is WD and WS, then if you have room, perhaps a web, or TD depending on your fit, however EVERY ship has a WD or WS if they are serious about pvp. Given the mandatory nature of the module, is it filling the role we(as a community) want it to fill? I don't have a solution, or I would offer one up in F&I, this thread is in discussion, as it was intended to be a discussion. Best, AG * Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Of all modules that can be fit to a ship, Warp Disruptors and Scramblers dictate combat more than any other module. I am not saying that I think they should be removed, however given there has been a lot of discussion about how increase the number people participating in pvp, I thought I would make a thread saying what I though was the number one reason people do NOT participate, that being, no escape if you ** up. Of all types of electronic warfare, the one constant is WD and WS, then if you have room, perhaps a web, or TD depending on your fit, however EVERY ship has a WD or WS if they are serious about pvp. Given the mandatory nature of the module, is it filling the role we(as a community) want it to fill? I don't have a solution, or I would offer one up in F&I, this thread is in discussion, as it was intended to be a discussion. Best, AG There are many, many, many ways to disengage from combat already. -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:07:00 - [28] I agree that some ships have many ways to disengage in combat, however Caldari and Gallente have a hard time given their lack of speed. Both could field ECM drones or modules although that is definitely not common place, it should be without a GTFO module. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Genya Arikaido	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:13:00 - [29] Once upon a time, CCP overhauled the Electronic Warfare system to the semi-chance based system we have now. Included in that overhaul were the warp scrambler and disruptor. The counter was to stack more engine warp stability with...you guessed it, warp care stabilizers! With no stabs, you had maybe a 1 in 4 chance of a cycle missing, and being able to escape. Most of us cheered the change..but as always, the whiners got out their waaambulance and trolled and rolled the forums so badly that CCP reversed the changes on these two modules only. It's time to reapply that improvement. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel I agree that some ships have many ways to disengage in combat, however Caldari and Gallente have a hard time given their lack of speed. Both could field ECM drones or modules although that is definitely not common place, it should be without a GTFO module. I strongly disagree that Caldari are limited in ways to disengage. Gallente, perhaps, but only because of the very nature of blasters. And honestly, I don't think that would be a big deal if blasters had strong advantages in that range. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2011.03.04 01:30:00 - [31] Eve wasn't designed for those afraid of PvP - if you're scared of the current pvp system then you aren't cut out for eve pvp. Also, you're wrong on your assumption that you can't get away once someone scrams you. With the exception of gallente, every single race has the option to kite the enemy and can burn out of range should they choose to disengage. Why do you thing 100mn ab tengus are so strong? And vagas? Or any other speedy fit ship really.
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.04 02:36:00 - [32] This does touch on the issue with EvE and its mandatory PvP and complete lack of desire to participate in the short lived, long to accomodate I-Win PvP system. Another option would be to put beacons on the ship, 2 for T2, 3 for T1 the same as rigs. Beacons that cyno a disabled ship to a preset 'cloner' location when the ship is disabled. Rather than end combat be all about 'blow stuff up' it be about defeat. These boards don't reflect ISK ingame. I don't care if the stats say there are 80 billion trillion ISK in EvE, most pilots sit on around 400 mill. Or a T2 fit battleship. So losing thier stuff always matters and the combat of EvE means someone WILL lose thier stuff. Non negotiable, they will. People don't want to. Both your and my suggestions direct to that very aspect of EvE.
Meridith Akesia Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.03.04 05:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Liang Nuren No.
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.04 05:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Meridith Akesia Originally by: Liang Nuren No. Prom night, Dumpster children should never be allowed online.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.04 06:52:00 - [35] As somebody who flew a stabbabond , I got hardly any kills because anything I tackled just warped off as they had WCS on as well. I got maybe 15 kills out of nearly a hundred engagements. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
m3rr	Posted - 2011.03.04 06:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Qui Rune Here's my solution: 1.Reduce the Security Limitations of Bomb Launchers to be used from .4 to Null 2.Create a requirement for Fleet Battle Kills such as a minimum of 25 or 50 Solo Kills before you can get credit for Fleet Kills: This could encourage more 1v1 engagements. 3. Revamp High Sec: a. 1.0 to 0.8 = Leave alone b. .7 to .5 = Limited or No concord involvement with cruiser class to frigate class engagements. (BC+ will still get Concorded as usual) c. 0.4 to Null = Leave alone Just my 0.2 ISK Good thing they don't let people with Downs Syndrome be game developers.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Apollo Gabriel I agree that some ships have many ways to disengage in combat, however Caldari and Gallente have a hard time given their lack of speed. Both could field ECM drones or modules although that is definitely not common place, it should be without a GTFO module. I strongly disagree that Caldari are limited in ways to disengage. Gallente, perhaps, but only because of the very nature of blasters. And honestly, I don't think that would be a big deal if blasters had strong advantages in that range. -Liang Care to elaborate? I guess you mean frigate hulls? If not, help me out here. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Of all modules that can be fit to a ship, Warp Disruptors and Scramblers dictate combat more than any other module. I am not saying that I think they should be removed, however given there has been a lot of discussion about how increase the number people participating in pvp, I thought I would make a thread saying what I though was the number one reason people do NOT participate, that being, no escape if you **** up. Of all types of electronic warfare, the one constant is WD and WS, then if you have room, perhaps a web, or TD depending on your fit, however EVERY ship has a WD or WS if they are serious about pvp. Given the mandatory nature of the module, is it filling the role we(as a community) want it to fill? I don't have a solution, or I would offer one up in F&I, this thread is in discussion, as it was intended to be a discussion. Best, AG There are many, many, many ways to disengage from combat already. -Liang exactly. the op seems to have a knee jerk reaction to probably being webbed for the first time. its hard enough right now to tie down some ships without the use of a remote sensor boosted recon. let's not make it harder. what the op suggested will remove the role of recons and interceptors. just no. I rarely go in for trolling but the op is a numpty.
Aodha Khan Minmatar Ma'asei Merkabah Naraka.	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:48:00 - [39] This thread is idiocy at it's best. Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous	Posted - 2011.03.04 13:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Hello All, I've started a new thread for this post as the other thread it was in is very engaged in another discussion: In regards to how to improve pvp in high, low and null space. I know this sounds crazy, but if warp scramblers and disruptors were removed from eve, I think more people would pvp, why? because they'd think there was a chance to get away. In addition you'd need a way to follow someone who warped off ( a perfect ability for frigates), and no I don't mean scanning, I mean heart pounding, right click on space and track! The you win or lose, period in pvp due to warp disruptors and scramblers really discourages pvp, don't get me wrong, I love them, but they do contribute strongly to the current state of pvp. Best, AG This was a bad idea the other times you posted it and it's a bad idea now. It has always been a bad idea, and it always will be a bad idea. I appreciated your feedback last time, and I am happy you took the time to read again this time. My primary issue with warp disruptors is that they govern the majority of pvp outside of a blob setting. If you're not within 24 km, you're not fighting for real. I would like to find an alternative way to have pvp while opening up the range and style of fights. The only reason to fit a warp disruptor is to stop someone leaving a fight. If you dont think that this should be done, dont fit one. Enjoy the considerable advantage you will get from freeing up a midslot (and getting up to +44 extra CPU to improve your fit with). You will have a non-trivial 1v1 advantage. Since you obviously dont object to your opponent warping way if he is losing a fight, I cant see any objection to your doing this. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Centri Sixx	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:04:00 - [41] The only way this would work is if you made ships had a combat mode: upon aggression, it takes a predetermined time for the ship to go into warp, and you replaced always on scramblers and disruptors with ones with a cooldown, so a smart pvper ould disrupt warp long enough to add to the warp spool up. This would add a bit of randomness to tackling but probably wouldn't be feasible. I don't think the OP is against PvP, but current scram mechanics mean you either aren't in a fight, or you are dead.
Meridith Akesia Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Care to elaborate? I guess you mean frigate hulls? If not, help me out here. A lot of caldari ships, being missile boats, have the weapon range to be able to kite outside of enemy scram range. Keep them in your disruptor range so they cant warp off, nano's help you get enough speed/agility to pull this off, also overheated dual web to stop them from getting you scrammed can be quite usefull if your learning. This may sacrifice a lot of your ships tank, but as a solo'er who has no real income source other then loot and salvage, i find the ability to escape pays off. It takes practice, and in general i find running away is the hardest part of pvp.
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Ocih This does touch on the issue with EvE and its mandatory PvP and complete lack of desire to participate in the short lived, long to accomodate I-Win PvP system. Another option would be to put beacons on the ship, 2 for T2, 3 for T1 the same as rigs. Beacons that cyno a disabled ship to a preset 'cloner' location when the ship is disabled. Rather than end combat be all about 'blow stuff up' it be about defeat. These boards don't reflect ISK ingame. I don't care if the stats say there are 80 billion trillion ISK in EvE, most pilots sit on around 400 mill. Or a T2 fit battleship. So losing thier stuff always matters and the combat of EvE means someone WILL lose thier stuff. Non negotiable, they will. People don't want to. Both your and my suggestions direct to that very aspect of EvE. I'm not trying to be rude, but... that is the single most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. I'm not even sure if you're a troll, thats how ridiculous it is.
Agent Sniper Rain	Posted - 2011.03.04 16:37:00 - [44] Edited by: Agent Sniper Rain on 04/03/2011 16:43:31 Edited by: Agent Sniper Rain on 04/03/2011 16:38:29 Edited by: Agent Sniper Rain on 04/03/2011 16:37:23 the EVE pvp problem is as much psychological as it is a mechanics question..all people need is the feeling that they have a CHANCE to escape, even if that chance is a small one. I propose: 1) eliminate WCS. 2) add an additional rig slot for every ship 3)implement a new "counter-scram" rig, but, have it be chance-based, like ECM. as a matter of fact, do the same with eccm. implement a whole line of"counter" rigs vs. all e-war. stop making us use slots for this, opens up ship fitting options for people.. 4) I know there needs to be penalties and a counter for the counter, that needs to be worked out. I think the disaapointment lies with not having any way of escaping in certain situations. it's all or nothing, you have to take the **** with no mace to fend off the attacker. there has to be a way to give us more options..if people are able to have that hope, that feeling that they can turn the tables, many more people will PVP, IMHO. just not sure of all the angles yet.
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Kuronaga Originally by: Ocih This does touch on the issue with EvE and its mandatory PvP and complete lack of desire to participate in the short lived, long to accomodate I-Win PvP system. Another option would be to put beacons on the ship, 2 for T2, 3 for T1 the same as rigs. Beacons that cyno a disabled ship to a preset 'cloner' location when the ship is disabled. Rather than end combat be all about 'blow stuff up' it be about defeat. These boards don't reflect ISK ingame. I don't care if the stats say there are 80 billion trillion ISK in EvE, most pilots sit on around 400 mill. Or a T2 fit battleship. So losing thier stuff always matters and the combat of EvE means someone WILL lose thier stuff. Non negotiable, they will. People don't want to. Both your and my suggestions direct to that very aspect of EvE. I'm not trying to be rude, but... that is the single most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. I'm not even sure if you're a troll, thats how ridiculous it is. And in truth would backfire. Much like Dominion backfired. Instead of creating a sink for those huge piles of ISK sitting in corp wallets, it killed out all the smaller corps and alliances that didnt have the huge, limitless piles of ISK. This would create some sort of insurance scam they forget to consider or other exploit and in 6 months we would ba at status quo again. It's not that the idea was bad, it's that it can't be timed in to the game at this stage. The truth is, if I want to "fix" EvE the best way is to do it by example. I just don't have the time for that. As is pointed out many times, EvE is about figuring out the list of stuff you don't and can't do. Not the stuff you can do. It can be expensive or not. That's up to you and deciding if its worth your time and entertaining is to.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:21:00 - [46] No, I do not think that getting rid of warp disruption would increase PVP. There are some people that play the game to PVP, and they PVP. For those that PVP, more time is spent trying to gather intel on the enemy. lookng for a fight they can win and avoiding fights they can not win... or if they are into 1v1 or small gang, then they spend their time looking for a random target or baiting a newb into flipping back a can or shooting at tehm while they are ninja-ing. For the most part, fights happen when each side thinks it can win, and I don't see what removing warp disruption would have on convincing people they can win a fight. Then there are others that simply have no interest in PVP. They play the game to build things, to build a corp, wealth, their ability to run missions, etc. etc. Any attempt to force these people into PVP will simply result in them quitting the game.
Dan Pyre Amarr COLD-Wing	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:34:00 - [47] Confirming this thread is a stealth 'boost Drakes' thread - if Warp Disruptors were no longer needed, all Drakes would have an extra mid for fitting. GTFO of my EvE!

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