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Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
594
   |
Posted - 2012.08.25 22:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is probably a stupid question... but, my corpmate lost our actual probe-scanning ship, so I've got a Merlin with a launcher and 5 sister's. For 4 days now I have spent a minimum of 1 hour and a max. of 3 hours trying to eliminate all of these ridiculous Ladar, Radar and Grav sites from the list. It gets to the point, every-single-time, where the signatures are just ******** hard to keep on-scan.
Is there a trick to this I'm missing?
I've noticed that low-sec exits are usually around the 0.56% initial signal strength, aside from the past 4 days. It's like this, Ladar, ladar, ladar, ladar, grav, radar, ladar, ladar, ladar - F@#$ this!
There has to be a way to pinpoint which signature is a WH quickly, if not right off the bat.
Please help.
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Indi Cronus
Celestial Argonauts
HELL4S
0
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Posted - 2012.08.25 22:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
good skills, and at least a t1 probe ship, some neatty probe formations and patience |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
87
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Posted - 2012.08.26 00:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clear the ladar sites and buy a real scanning ship? |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics
K162
44
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Posted - 2012.08.26 03:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
I know it probably doesnt matter to you now that you are in this pickle and i bet your going to say you have learned this lesson already but, you had one actual scanning ship in your home system. you tested murphies law out and found it to still be in perfect working order. |
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 12:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Go buy a proper scanning boat (actually make that 2 per person in the hole, seriously) and skill up to at least 7 probes. Astronometrics IV combined with all supports to III should be a good starting point. Sure you can probe things down with just 5 probes on an unbonused ship, but like you've most likely noticed, it wont be even remotely fast. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 14:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Raise your skills I ca pick up any sing with enough patience with a scorpion, no rigs and a t1 launcher with regular probes. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
594
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Archdaimon wrote:Clear the ladar sites and buy a real scanning ship?
lol I would if I could get out of the WH in which I live! :P
Sorry guys, totally forgot I made this thread... reading everything else now.
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Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
594
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 15:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:Go buy a proper scanning boat (actually make that 2 per person in the hole, seriously) and skill up to at least 7 probes. Astronometrics IV combined with all supports to III should be a good starting point. Sure you can probe things down with just 5 probes on an unbonused ship, but like you've most likely noticed, it wont be even remotely fast.
Alrighty. I'm checking my skills now and here's where they're at...
1. Astrometrics IV
2. Astrometric Rangefinding III
3. Astrometric Pinpointing III
4. Astrometric Acquisition I
I'm sure there's something I'm missing here. I assume "Astronometrics" was a typo?
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Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 15:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes, that was indeed a typo.... You have the skills to use 7 probes, meaning you should do just that. Make a cross with 4 and the 5th in the middle, add one on top of the middle one and another one below it and it's done. Then it's just a matter of alt-dragging the pattern to tighten it up when you get a signature. Shouldn't take more than a minute to scan down a single signature, at most. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
594
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 15:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Borlag Crendraven wrote:Yes, that was indeed a typo.... You have the skills to use 7 probes, meaning you should do just that. Make a cross with 4 and the 5th in the middle, add one on top of the middle one and another one below it and it's done. Then it's just a matter of alt-dragging the pattern to tighten it up when you get a signature. Shouldn't take more than a minute to scan down a single signature, at most.
Awesome, alright :D Now I just need to find an exit so that I can purchase a few things lol Maybe like 10 probe boats and 50 probes!
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Mindraak
Rise on Chaos
0
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Posted - 2012.08.26 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
as said before train scanning skills & buy a scanning frig or T3 and fit it properly (incl. rigs blah blah blah) - frig is cheaper and faster / T3 is slower scanner but its a excelent cloaky point/tackler should you wish to pvp.
furthermore, if you like, train Astrometrics to lvl5 and read this
next watch one of plenty how to scann videos on you tube to learn the setup - i prefer to use 6 probes but lot of others prefer 7 or 8 and dont forget that Shift and Alt keys are your best friends - shift to move all probes at once in your formation and alt to move them closer/further away from the centre of your formation |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
312
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 17:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes,
As you know now, living in the WH requires redundancy. That goes for every ship. Scanners, PVP ships (no fun Pewpew if you die and have nothing to reship at the POS).
All of my scan ships carry double the probes (16 cores, 16 combats, 4 DSP). And I have at least 2 per type needed.
None of that helps you now.
For future, I know it is Poo Poo'd but I really like deep space probes. I have found them very helpful in many cases. When I have gotten stuck in some other WH it has saved my butt. I got an orca stuck in an active C5 with C3 static. (major derp).
They were turtled up in their POS (I had just shot at them running sites in my home). but off dscan from the WH. So i quickly scanned out their new C3 static. Even with pretty good skills in an orca and 8 probes I just barely got a lock. Raced to the new C3. Which luckily had a HS static.
I knew it would be sort of a race. As soon as they realized I collapsed the static they would scan down the new one. If they beat me to the exit they could easily capture my orca.
Hit scan with a DSP. 33 sigs! (ugh). But given the scan strengths, I was able to narrow the possible HS static to 9 of the 33. Got it on the 6th sig.
Now if you don't have DSP's you can still do it sort of using signature size (read up on sig size etc on wormnav).
The other option is to quickly narrow down sigs as fast as you can. What I do (windows 7 is handy for this), is do a full scan of the system. Then use the windows 7 snip tool to take a screen grab of your results window (makes it easier to keep track.
Then scan each planet at 8AU. You only need a 25% lock to get the sig type. I eliminate all that i can first that way, corring them off my screen snip as I go. Then you can do the same around planets at 4AU, knocking as many off as you can. Any WH's you can scan down to 100%. Doing this method I have gone through systems with 30-40 sigs to find the exit in about 25 min in an unbonused HIC with just a core probe launcher.
[edit]
BTW all of my main toons have:
1. Astrometrics V
2. Astrometric Rangefinding 4
3. Astrometric Pinpointing 4
4. Astrometric Acquisition 3 |
I-See U
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.26 18:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I've found that the time to invest in Astrometrics 5 is invaluable. Coupled with level 4 skills in all the other scanning skills and this technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Ag
scanning will be a piece of cake and all sigs will be done in less than 15min |
Sun Win
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 21:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
I-See U wrote:scanning will be a piece of cake and all sigs will be done in less than 15min
You just opened my eyes. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 04:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here's a listing of all wormholes' Base Signature Strengths (a.k.a. signature size). In a lot of wormhole systems, the local static will have a unique strength, i.e. it will always be the only signature in the system with that sig str, so you can pick it out of a scan right away. For example, in a class 2 system with a static D382 to other c2s, the D382 will be the only 1/15 signature.
One other trick you might consider, is scanning down all those gravs and ladars to 100% one day, then initiating a warp to each of them. That will cause their site timers to start ticking and they'll disappear in 3 days, and voila, a nice empty system that's easy to scan... (till more clutter spawns). |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation
Greater Realms
53
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Posted - 2012.08.27 07:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
What hole do you live in? If you can tell us that or if you use "siggy" or any of the other mapping sites then it will tell you what size signatures you are looking for in your hole for your static.
Size 10's holes are going to be K162's INTO your system from elsewhere. This could be from anywhere, though in my experience (somewhat limited) the lower down the holes you go, the more likely you are to find a known system exit.
Generally speaking if you want quick transport through holes, you should scan all 10's (possible incoming connections) and the sigs sizes that match your static.
On another note.... you state (somewhat tongue in cheek I'd imagine) that you are going to purchase 10 scanning ships and 50 probes...... that still only makes 5 probes per boat!!
If it were me, I'd have two covops ships, and I have around 21 sisters combats in each of mine and then a T1 prober with the same amount of probes in them. THEN you need a stock of probes too. If you leave them all in the hangar and not in the ships then you will slowly dwindle the pile down to the point where someone takes the last one and then, Murhpy/Bob comes to visit and you jump into the T1 prober to find that it has no probes.
I use SIggy and you can enter your skills and it will tell you how to recognize sig sizes based on a max range scan (whatever probe type). It will also tell you your static size.
Regards
Barrak |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
518
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 21:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
the trick is to not be probing in a merlin... |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
143
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 14:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Use 8 probes set to 4AU, setup 6 to make two lines of 3 (forming two overlapping boxes), and put the final 2 at the center of each box. Be sure that they are close enough to create a big area of overlapping sensors down the center. Then keep them in this formation and move them across the system like a rake. The sensor strength will be strong enough to immediately register wormholes as "unknown" sigs, and also the easier sigs to find like ladars. The rest you will be blank, as if it doesn't display something then its generally falls into one of the harder to find sigs, such as mag sites.
Of course, the sig needs to be towards the center of your line, if its above or below and not within the overlap then it will still register them as a blank sig. So be sure to be systematic with your sweep. I generally find using this tactic can enable you to quickly locate wormholes over other sig types, as wormholes require far less sensor strength before they are shown as an "unknown". |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
534
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Use 8 probes set to 4AU, setup 6 to make two lines of 3 (forming two overlapping boxes), and put the final 2 at the center of each box.
this is by FAR the worst 8 probe layout ive ever heard of...
(as a note, there are quite a few WH types that are as hard or harder to probe out as mag/rad sites so if this doesnt pick those up, youre going to be missing WHs a lot.) |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 23:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Archdaimon wrote:Clear the ladar sites and buy a real scanning ship? lol I would if I could get out of the WH in which I live! :P Sorry guys, totally forgot I made this thread... reading everything else now.
Initiate warp to all sigs and they will de-spawn in a couple of days..
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Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
170
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 10:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
I-See U wrote:I've found that the time to invest in Astrometrics 5 is invaluable. Coupled with level 4 skills in all the other scanning skills and this technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Agscanning will be a piece of cake and all sigs will be done in less than 15min
You do not actually scan down the sigs in the video, you just scan most to >25%, then ignore them. Even those you do scan down you immediately ignore... in a real situation, you'd want to make bookmarks and examine them (in case of wormholes) which takes about as much time as scanning them.
Using DSP's I can for example come into a C3, make one scan and immediately know that 12 of the 24 sigs in the system are no incoming wormholes and with a very high probability no wormholes at all but only mag/radar sites (outgoing wormholes of the same size are very rare unless it's a C3 with nullsec static). Thus if I want to know all open wormholes I can just ignore half the sigs in the system, and the hard-to-scan half at that.
In some classes, the static wormhole even has a unique size, so with one DSP scan I can always find the static's signature at once. Certainly not bad for a skill that only takes two weeks.
edit: I just realized that I misread the word "invaluable" in your post... the technique is not bad although I would combine it with the use of DSP's.
. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
534
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 14:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I-See U wrote:I've found that the time to invest in Astrometrics 5 is invaluable. Coupled with level 4 skills in all the other scanning skills and this technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Agscanning will be a piece of cake and all sigs will be done in less than 15min You do not actually scan down the sigs in the video, you just scan most to >25%, then ignore them. Even those you do scan down you immediately ignore... in a real situation, you'd want to make bookmarks and examine them (in case of wormholes) which takes about as much time as scanning them.
since it's my vid (on my probing alt) i thought id respond.
the probing see is totally standard practice: ID all sigs, BM all WHs.
yes, i did ignore all the WHs when i hit 100% but at the end i clear ignores sigs and BM them.
none of the other sigs are ever worth probing down to 100% unless you plan to run them, which i personally do not do.
only time i probe everything to 100% is in my home system so i can activate all the sigs and make them go away asap.
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Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
144
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 23:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:Use 8 probes set to 4AU, setup 6 to make two lines of 3 (forming two overlapping boxes), and put the final 2 at the center of each box. this is by FAR the worst 8 probe layout ive ever heard of... (as a note, there are quite a few WH types that are as hard or harder to probe out as mag/rad sites so if this doesnt pick those up, youre going to be missing WHs a lot.)
Certainly does the job in class 3s! What sort of wh-types are they then? And that arrangement if for locating wormholes only. I've never found a wh sig that requires as much strength to find as a mag site, every single one was on 4AU range.
Sure your skills are good? 
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Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
535
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 06:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
c2/3 <--> c5/6 holes, c5/6 --> HS, HS/LS --> C5 off the top of my head.
the kspace ones are the same difficulty as rad/mag, the c2/3 <--> C5/6 ones are harder than mag/rads. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
170
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 08:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:
since it's my vid (on my probing alt) i thought id respond.
the probing see is totally standard practice: ID all sigs, BM all WHs.
yes, i did ignore all the WHs when i hit 100% but at the end i clear ignores sigs and BM them.
none of the other sigs are ever worth probing down to 100% unless you plan to run them, which i personally do not do.
only time i probe everything to 100% is in my home system so i can activate all the sigs and make them go away asap.
All right, I basically do it the same way. But I do bookmark scanned wormholes at once, because if you get disconnected just before you're done with everything, you lose all of your work 
. |
stup idity
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 14:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:
... There is no wormhole signature that is smaller than w-space RAD/MAG sites.
At least this is not true.
Full numbers are here:
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html
Probe strength is found under "charge info" in the fitting screen when the mouse is pointed over the probe launcher.
I reign supreme. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
538
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 15:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:The difficulty of signatures is not directly related to the class of wormhole. There are just different kinds of wormholes and they have different signature sizes. Example: The H296 wormhole (C5 to C5) is very big, same size as a K162 or a C1 to Hisec hole. Whereas C3 to Nullsec (K346) is of the smallest size and as 'hard' to scan as a RAD or MAG site. There is no wormhole signature that is smaller than w-space RAD/MAG sites.
look, you can argue all you like but anyone who cares to can go look up the raw data on sig size for WHs and compare it to mags.
i dont care enough to do it and dont remember the WH type codes so i just listed the connection types I know to be in the same or smaller size category as mags. take it or leave it. |
Ellariona
The Elysian Agoge
Elysian Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 21:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
1. Search current solarsystem
2a. on the first line after the general stats, set your scan strength by clicking on the icon to the right
2b. read the first line after the general stats:
"Connection to unknown GùÅ class 3 system via static M267 wormhole. Signature Strength 2,2"
This means: With 1 deep space scanner probe at max range setting, the signature of your static should be 2.2
Good alliances (like the one i'm in) develop their own tools/websites to easily manage and coordinate intel though. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
171
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 09:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
stup idity wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:
... There is no wormhole signature that is smaller than w-space RAD/MAG sites.
At least this is not true. Full numbers are here: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.htmlProbe strength is found under "charge info" in the fitting screen when the mouse is pointed over the probe launcher.
Interesting. I was about to concede that I stand corrected, because I have never encountered most of the wormhole types listed in the one category smaller than mag/rad sites, that is, holes to C6 from C1,3 or 4.
But, according to this list the wormhole M267 from C5 to C3 is also in the smallest 0.02 band, and I can definitely confirm that this is not correct. M267 is the static of the system I've been living in for several months now, and I have scanned down hundreds of them. It is size 0.05 (or rather 0.06 with my skills), just like mag/rad.
So maybe those other exotic wormholes are indeed size 0.02, but if there is one error in that list, I guess there could be more...
edit: At least one more error: C2 to C6 is R474 not R747, and it's not size 0.02 either. I found one of those just a few days ago and it was size 0.05 as well. (It led to TLC's C6 btw and there was a good fight :))
. |
Dragunov
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 16:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Launch your probes, set to max range (32 AU), make your regular box pattern and spread the probes to cover the whole system and hit analyze. You'll get a bunch of returns like...
AEX
BEX
CEX
DEX
EFT
FEX
GEX
The stuff that's been in the hole for days (Ladar/Gravs) all got new ID's at downtime and they match. Anything that has spawned since then will have an ID that stands out. EFT is probably your exit wormhole.
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Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation
Transmission Lost
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 08:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Archdaimon wrote:Clear the ladar sites and buy a real scanning ship? lol I would if I could get out of the WH in which I live! :P Sorry guys, totally forgot I made this thread... reading everything else now.
for this you do not need to scann, just use the pod express and selfdestruct !! or call in local and ask for beeing podded
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Caesar Desilva
Furyan Federation
Absolute Darkness
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 01:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dragunov wrote:Launch your probes, set to max range (32 AU), make your regular box pattern and spread the probes to cover the whole system and hit analyze. You'll get a bunch of returns like...
AEX
BEX
CEX
DEX
EFT
FEX
GEX
The stuff that's been in the hole for days (Ladar/Gravs) all got new ID's at downtime and they match. Anything that has spawned since then will have an ID that stands out. EFT is probably your exit wormhole.
you are correct, usually that what id go for when I get all the sigs up on my scanner, the one with the odd ID is usually a WH |
Le Badass
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 11:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Some very good tips in this thread. Thanks to all you ppl for sharing  |
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