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Why are there still 30-60 day queues on NPC ME Labs?

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Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:43:00 - [1] I was under the impression that lab prices are supposed to increase when they are full, and continue to increase until they stop being full. My guess is that ME and PE slots are linked in price, so the PE slots are left open and keep the prices artificially low. This seems like an obvious "market failure" which is unavoidable given the nature of the system. Should CCP do anything to correct this? Does anybody really care about this, given that you can setup a POS lab in hisec fairly easily?
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.03.08 06:31:00 - [2] I care. I just don't have anything useful to say.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.08 07:26:00 - [3] Untill CCP rework the POS labs so that the slots can be rented to the public the problem will persist.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.08 08:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Does anybody really care about this, given that you can setup a POS lab in hisec fairly easily? Doubt it. A small POS is about 15k/hour for slots, depending on fit and assuming only 10 slots are used. Of course even doing PI in hisec for just water and oxygen will cover that.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.08 08:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Venkul Mul Untill CCP rework the POS labs so that the slots can be rented to the public the problem will persist. I doubt that will ever happen too. I mean who's going to give out anything of their research POSes when in fact they can get backed up in an alliance? I think CCP should seize it as an opportunity to take on a new credit drain. ME should have the fee substantially increased in NPC stations with ME.
Valator Uel Caldari Mercenaries of Andosia Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.08 10:49:00 - [6] Step 1) Remove all NPC research slots. Step 2) Allow players to rent out lab slots to public. Result: a true player driven S&I market.
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier Originally by: Venkul Mul Untill CCP rework the POS labs so that the slots can be rented to the public the problem will persist. I doubt that will ever happen too. I mean who's going to give out anything of their research POSes when in fact they can get backed up in an alliance? Maybe people who have a POS that they barely use, and have no interest in an(y) alliance. /me looks at me
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:04:00 - [8] Sobaseki labs (mat research) are 11,600 per hour.. that's like 280k/day.. 2nt hand bpo's often cost less than that, so if your wanting to research in Sobaseki then just buy the bpo with research!... Copy prices are the same, and so are Time Eff research.. The problem here is that CCP did the programming on the cheap ;)... Because when the game considers "lab" load it's using (mat+copy+timeeff) and runs them all as a single unit. If ccp would change the cost per hour mutator to work for EACH activity then mat would go through the roof, Copy would follow behind pretty close, and timeeff would take a dive. Bug report it and just watch some BH shut it down because it's designed to work that way... Just because something "works" doesnt mean it's not faulty, but if you can get it past the BH's to a Dev submission then they might change it ;). ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Viule Sawyr	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:37:00 - [9] Edited by: Viule Sawyr on 08/03/2011 14:40:30 Originally by: Valator Uel Step 1) Remove all NPC research slots. Step 2) Allow players to rent out lab slots to public. Result: a true player driven S&I market. While in theory, this is the ideal EVE "sandbox" solution. The reality is, you have to give newer players and people whom can't play 23/7 a chance at playing the "game". There is already a a solution built into the game that also covers the risk vs reward. NPC null sec space has tons of open ME/Copy ect..ect space and it's not that hard to get in and out if you have half a brain. You can either wait in high sec for your slot, set up a POS or take risk for instant reward.
RaTTuS BIG Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:56:00 - [10] Originally by: DeODokktor Sobaseki labs (mat research) are 11,600 per hour.. that's like 280k/day.. that depends on your stadings Quote: Because when the game considers "lab" load it's using (mat+copy+timeeff) and runs them all as a single unit. If ccp would change the cost per hour mutator to work for EACH activity then mat would go through the roof, Copy would follow behind pretty close, and timeeff would take a dive. This -- Join BIG
Greg Huff	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Valator Uel Step 1) Remove all NPC research slots. Step 2) Allow players to rent out lab slots to public. Result: a true player driven S&I market. The major problem I see here is BPO theft unless CCP does something to protect BP's in rented slots. NO, I'm not saying CCP needs to do everything to protect the noob carebear from shedding tears. There just needs to be some mechanism in place if the only options are completely trusting strangers, or setting up your own pos. Alternate choice: Restrict NPC research slots to NPC Corp members, possibly even members of the corp owning the station AND allow players to rent out lab slots to public.
Valator Uel Caldari Mercenaries of Andosia Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Greg Huff Originally by: Valator Uel Step 1) Remove all NPC research slots. Step 2) Allow players to rent out lab slots to public. Result: a true player driven S&I market. The major problem I see here is BPO theft unless CCP does something to protect BP's in rented slots. BPO's are never in danger. When selecing the research range on your BPO you can select system/constellation or region. Your BPO stays in your hangar and is returned to your hangar once the research is finished. They will only have to tweak invention so that all items can be in your hangar instead of inside the mobile lab and the BPC is returned in your hangar. Perhaps initially keep low-sec and 0.0 NPC lab slots open, but besides the initial chaos as people learn to use mobile labs and POS owners turn some slots public, I don't see how this in the long run can be any worse than it is now. There is no entry-level problem, all it does is change the price of researching (which depends on demand and offer).
TLWE Polish Lords' Confederacy	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:38:00 - [13] There is some issue I noticed about remotely researching bpos in pos from station. Currently you need to put your precious bpo in hands of owner of pos owner. He can cancel research and steal the bpo from you from station's corporate hanger you got from him. So it is not only a matter of "unlocking" slots in POS for public to earn extra revenue or issue of few more calculations. Imho, this is a matter of reworking entire workings of pos mechanics. -- B=g, Honor, Nar=d. Semper Fidelis. Nec Hercules Contra Plures.
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:13:00 - [14] I can't say why the lab rates for NPC stations aren't changing with demand. Even if it's not supposed to, IMO it really should. I can say that queue times in the area I work from are usually around 4-7 days for material, 1-3 days for copy, and no wait for productivity and invention. Get away from the major hubs, life is better out here.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.08 22:08:00 - [15] Originally by: TLWE There is some issue I noticed about remotely researching bpos in pos from station. Currently you need to put your precious bpo in hands of owner of pos owner. He can cancel research and steal the bpo from you from station's corporate hanger you got from him. So it is not only a matter of "unlocking" slots in POS for public to earn extra revenue or issue of few more calculations. Imho, this is a matter of reworking entire workings of pos mechanics. You don't need to give the POS corp the BPO if you are in an alliance. However, in that case you can only do M.E. and P.E. research that doesn't require materials.
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia	Posted - 2011.03.09 00:21:00 - [16] Originally by: VaMei I can't say why the lab rates for NPC stations aren't changing with demand. Even if it's not supposed to, IMO it really should. I can say that queue times in the area I work from are usually around 4-7 days for material, 1-3 days for copy, and no wait for productivity and invention. Get away from the major hubs, life is better out here. Based on my hypothesis and what other people have said, it's just lazy programming on CCP's part - where ME/PE/Copy are all considered a single service for NPC lab pricing purposes. People should still have the option to pay a premium for copy in hisec.
Kethas Protagonist Protagonist Ventures	Posted - 2011.03.09 14:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Viule Sawyr There is already a a solution built into the game that also covers the risk vs reward. NPC null sec space has tons of open ME/Copy ect..ect space and it's not that hard to get in and out if you have half a brain. Are warp bubbles deployable in NPC nullsec? I know they are in normal nullsec, and not in losec/hisec. If they are, any tips on flying BPOs in/out quasi-safely, other than the obvious "use a leading scout"?
Velicitia Open Designs	Posted - 2011.03.09 14:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Kethas Protagonist Originally by: Viule Sawyr There is already a a solution built into the game that also covers the risk vs reward. NPC null sec space has tons of open ME/Copy ect..ect space and it's not that hard to get in and out if you have half a brain. Are warp bubbles deployable in NPC nullsec? I know they are in normal nullsec, and not in losec/hisec. If they are, any tips on flying BPOs in/out quasi-safely, other than the obvious "use a leading scout"? Cloak, and don't warp directly gate to gate.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.09 21:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Originally by: TLWE There is some issue I noticed about remotely researching bpos in pos from station. Currently you need to put your precious bpo in hands of owner of pos owner. He can cancel research and steal the bpo from you from station's corporate hanger you got from him. So it is not only a matter of "unlocking" slots in POS for public to earn extra revenue or issue of few more calculations. Imho, this is a matter of reworking entire workings of pos mechanics. You don't need to give the POS corp the BPO if you are in an alliance. However, in that case you can only do M.E. and P.E. research that doesn't require materials. And it require you to be in a player corp and use the corp hangar, not your personal hangar.
snake driver Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.10 02:21:00 - [20] So what if any effect do the standings settings for assembly lines have? I've been hoping that it's possible to have an alt use the research labs in my pos - and the alt isn't in my corp or alliance. However, my attempts to make this work have thus far failed miserably. Am I just out of luck or is there a way to beat it into working properly? Thanks.
TipsyMcStagger Caldari Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.03.10 04:42:00 - [21] Edited by: TipsyMcStagger on 10/03/2011 04:43:27 Originally by: Viule Sawyr Edited by: Viule Sawyr on 08/03/2011 14:40:30 Originally by: Valator Uel Step 1) Remove all NPC research slots. Step 2) Allow players to rent out lab slots to public. Result: a true player driven S&I market. While in theory, this is the ideal EVE "sandbox" solution. The reality is, you have to give newer players and people whom can't play 23/7 a chance at playing the "game". There is already a a solution built into the game that also covers the risk vs reward. NPC null sec space has tons of open ME/Copy ect..ect space and it's not that hard to get in and out if you have half a brain. You can either wait in high sec for your slot, set up a POS or take risk for instant reward. How you figure the current situation gives new players a chance? Not that they need one First, npc space is usually backed up too, you might get one in and make 6 jumps for another and might get beat to it if further all the while dodging bubbles with a bpo. Lame unless you have scouts/t3, not new friendly. 50/50 chance of an average reasonably sharp noob ina mwd/basic cloak condor making it to a slot. The same making it back when it's done. Second, generally speaking new players look at the queue in hisec and forget about research until -way- down the road when they can reasonably set up a pos or involved in alliance stuff. They are in hulks or missioning or pvp long before they inadvertently find themselves in position to get into the bp stuff they dismissed early on. If mechanics where changed to allow pos slot rental to non-alliance 3rd parties with bpo's safe instation the market would explode then prices would crash. There'd be pos slots in every system copies would be .01% bpo instead of .5-1%, bc and bs bpo's would be 10% under npc in jita as ppl access easy research make a few ships get bored and firesell bpo's on an ongoing basis
Czeris Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.10 11:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Kethas Protagonist Originally by: Viule Sawyr There is already a a solution built into the game that also covers the risk vs reward. NPC null sec space has tons of open ME/Copy ect..ect space and it's not that hard to get in and out if you have half a brain. Are warp bubbles deployable in NPC nullsec? I know they are in normal nullsec, and not in losec/hisec. If they are, any tips on flying BPOs in/out quasi-safely, other than the obvious "use a leading scout"? T3 with cloak, interdiction nullifier, some nanos and warp core stabs. Makes it LOL-ingly easy to get through low and null sec. Yes, you can deploy bubbles in all 0.0 space.
Batelle do you	Posted - 2011.03.10 11:17:00 - [23] calculate prices for PE, ME, invention, and copy slots individually. Problem solved. EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.03.10 14:13:00 - [24] I do all my copying in low sec, never been caught in 4 years using a cov-ops.

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