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Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 08:33:00 - [1] Picture this scenario. Corporation A is a 20man corp, they are experienced players, and are based deep into 0.0. Mostly they have 3-10 people online at the same time, they are all friends and have eachothers account info, even so knowing its not alowed, but since theres no way to control this, they use all accounts as they see fit. So this is how it goes. Gang leader in a battleship warp to the belt, kills of the npc in less then a minute. All fine, he now tell the 3 corpmate its all clear, hes 3 corpmates running 3 clients each, now parks a fleet of 9 elite haulers at this belt, and puts each of them on a bistot/ark and activates the small armour rep. Now theese player runnign them haulers are done, they can go watch a movie or whatever, knowing the gang leader will take care of the npc way before they can hurt them. All they need to do is come back once an hour to switch roid/unload cargo. Ok! This is all great news for us pirates huh? I mean imagine finding one of theese ops, killing of them defenceless afk mining haulers... Yeh right, the moment mr.pirate enters local, gang leader nicely warps the whole gang to planet X moon Y, wich ofcourse everyone already is aligned to, to the safety of their indestructable POS. So basically, you can now afk mine all the highend ores you want with no effort or risk whatsoever. "Balancing" Remove the possibility to fit mining lasers on them before it gets out of hand already... PS. I just saw the stats on the ships last night, didnt check on them in detail, so hopefully there will be something preventing this. in that case all is fine.. DS [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Dave10	Posted - 2005.02.02 08:36:00 - [2] Edited by: Dave10 on 02/02/2005 08:37:24 whats the chance of them having a pos though? oh and if they do warp to a moon with no pos, you can find them in a few minutes if you know how to use the scanner
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 08:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Dave10 Edited by: Dave10 on 02/02/2005 08:37:24 whats the chance of them having a pos though? oh and if they do warp to a moon with no pos, you can find them in a few minutes if you know how to use the scanner With 9 haulers in deep 0.0 Whats the chances of them not being in an alliance with a POS? So what was your point again? [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Altai Saker	Posted - 2005.02.02 08:59:00 - [4] lol why would they warp out, they would jsut log off...
Delath	Posted - 2005.02.02 09:02:00 - [5] The deep space one doesn't have any turretslots so it can't mine. The blockaderunner has one but has much less cargospace. Still I imagine it can be used but you're lining up pretty many ifs for it to happen... ------------------------- "Real Men Hull Tank" CCP Hammer
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.02.02 09:30:00 - [6] For the same isk investment, you can have a group of characters with about 1/10th the skillpoints running battleships with Miner IIs for about 1/10th of the time, for the same result. Plus, you still need at least one person to be watching the herd. If group mining is already boring enough that people start doing ascii art in local, and posting recordings of Daakon's singing, how much more boring is it going to be to watch a group of afk miners? I knid of thought that was why people did afk mining in the first place: so they didn't have to sit there and watch their indy fill up through its sippy straw. I just don't see this working. Harry Voyager
StonedBoy	Posted - 2005.02.02 11:32:00 - [7] and who will change target (asteroids) as they explode ? If the miners are afk... they will mine till asteroids explode !
Lig Lira	Posted - 2005.02.02 11:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Altai Saker lol why would they warp out, they would jsut log off... Have another look at the original post, the haulers would be AFK. Which PA character are you? That's no flying saucer, that's my ass!
F'nog	Posted - 2005.02.02 11:43:00 - [9] Originally by: StonedBoy and who will change target (asteroids) as they explode ? If the miners are afk... they will mine till asteroids explode ! Yes, AFK Indy mining really only works on Veld moons, unless you want to be ebil and use a macro. I just don't see how it would be worthwile to do in 0.0.
Dasher Prime	Posted - 2005.02.02 12:19:00 - [10] So ok maybe "YOU" need to play smater...and stop crying on the forums "How CCP has nerfed the pirates again"?
Stront3h	Posted - 2005.02.02 12:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Stront3h on 02/02/2005 12:45:03 Originally by: Myal Terego Picture this scenario. <snip> Some people really do have over active imaginations.... OK so lets take 4-5 tech 2 indies, probably worth anywhere in the region of 40-60m each and sit in a belt in 0.0 mining high end ores (where the real big bad rats spawn) and have then guarded by a single BS, while the rest go afk..... That's a really smart move and no doubt highly profitable.....
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 13:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Stront3h Some people really do have over active imaginations.... OK so lets take 4-5 tech 2 indies, probably worth anywhere in the region of 40-60m each and sit in a belt in 0.0 mining high end ores (where the real big bad rats spawn) and have then guarded by a single BS, while the rest go afk..... That's a really smart move and no doubt highly profitable..... Yes it is a really smart move. Making isk with no risk nor effort, that in space that is supposed to be dangerous... I dont see the reason for your complaint however, since it is a "transport" ship, not afk mining vessel. All i suggested was to remove the possibilty to fit the mining lasers on them. So whats your problem? Unless ofcourse it'll ruin your plans on sitting in a .5 sucking your precious omber while doing ur homework. [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Bawldeux IV	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:11:00 - [13] how can they be AFK if they are activly tranferring the ore to and from cc's, AND warping about... here, you need some cheese to go with your whine... ::::::::::::::::::::::::: >>...wanna cookie?<< :::::::::::::::::::::::::
Ivresse	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:12:00 - [14] Erm, surely this could all have been done with standard haulers anyway, what do the elite haulers have to do with it? In anycase, as said earlier, the big transport ships have no weapon hardpoints and therefore can't equip mining lasers, and the Blockade runners have either equal or less cargo space than an Iteron Mk. 1, so they wouldn't be that useful anyway... ---------------------
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:29:00 - [15] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/02/2005 14:29:26 Can anyone say "C L U E L E S S" MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
mafish	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Bawldeux IV how can they be AFK if they are activly tranferring the ore to and from cc's, AND warping about... here, you need some cheese to go with your whine... wow how retarded you didnt read the post at all then come out with the oh so typical reply on these forums :/
Loka	Posted - 2005.02.02 15:07:00 - [17] Yeah i just waited for the elite haulers to mine with one Miner II 10k cargo in a tanked ship. Oh wait, i was already able before with 7/8 miner II and tanked. Hmm i think you did something wrong in your eve mining career. Yihaaaa. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Stront3h	Posted - 2005.02.02 15:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Stront3h on 02/02/2005 15:45:50 Originally by: Myal Terego Yes it is a really smart move. Making isk with no risk nor effort, that in space that is supposed to be dangerous... I dont see the reason for your complaint however, since it is a "transport" ship, not afk mining vessel. All i suggested was to remove the possibilty to fit the mining lasers on them. So whats your problem? Unless ofcourse it'll ruin your plans on sitting in a .5 sucking your precious omber while doing ur homework. My problem is smart-arses like you that think they know it all. FYI I left school nearly 17 years ago, if you'd like me to pop round and help you with your homework I'd be glad too. Your suggestion is just too far fetched, to actually try this you'd have to have more isk than sense. Remember NPC's spawning in 0.0 belts have webbers and scramblers. One spawn could loose you a 40-60m isk ship, whilst your lone BS pilot either, tries to fend them off or sift through and log out the right account or all of them, which kind of makes this a non-starter. Unless of course you know something that you're not telling the rest of us...
StarLite	Posted - 2005.02.02 16:18:00 - [19] Edited by: StarLite on 02/02/2005 16:19:12 How on earth did I manage to post an empty post? ___________________________________________________
StarLite	Posted - 2005.02.02 16:18:00 - [20] Psssst: elite indies have 0 turret hardpoints ___________________________________________________
Attrezzo Pox	Posted - 2005.02.02 16:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Myal Terego Picture this scenario. Corporation A is a 20man corp, they are experienced players, and are based deep into 0.0. Mostly they have 3-10 people online at the same time, they are all friends and have eachothers account info, even so knowing its not alowed, but since theres no way to control this, they use all accounts as they see fit. So this is how it goes. Gang leader in a battleship warp to the belt, kills of the npc in less then a minute. All fine, he now tell the 3 corpmate its all clear, hes 3 corpmates running 3 clients each, now parks a fleet of 9 elite haulers at this belt, and puts each of them on a bistot/ark and activates the small armour rep. Now theese player runnign them haulers are done, they can go watch a movie or whatever, knowing the gang leader will take care of the npc way before they can hurt them. All they need to do is come back once an hour to switch roid/unload cargo. Ok! This is all great news for us pirates huh? I mean imagine finding one of theese ops, killing of them defenceless afk mining haulers... Yeh right, the moment mr.pirate enters local, gang leader nicely warps the whole gang to planet X moon Y, wich ofcourse everyone already is aligned to, to the safety of their indestructable POS. So basically, you can now afk mine all the highend ores you want with no effort or risk whatsoever. "Balancing" Remove the possibility to fit mining lasers on them before it gets out of hand already... PS. I just saw the stats on the ships last night, didnt check on them in detail, so hopefully there will be something preventing this. in that case all is fine.. DS EHHHHHHNNNNNN sorry wrong answer. Intelligent pirates would see local. If this happened once and you don't have the IQ of your average pet rock you'd think you'd remember next time. So you call in your buddies in interceptors and frigs, maybe a cloaking ship and go scramble as many heavy haulers as you can get your hands on. How? You don't have to check the roid belts individually. Warp to the planet and use your handy dandy scanner n00b. There's a good chance the "gang leader" won't have time to scan every five seconds and scroll down the list looking for interceptors. Also remember these indies are SLLLLOOOOOWWWW it'll take awhile to get into warp so you don't really need a cloaking ship to line you up just warp right in and get what you can. Even though these things have 8 low slots all that means is you might have to settle for only one or two provided you have at least two intys. (That's really only if they're intelligent miners) Anyway you'd have another two friends waiting and lined up for warp to protect the scramblers and I'm guessing it would be a good payday. I'm thinking best case senerio, you'd have about 8 inty you could scram all the transports and two bs to blow em up one at a time. Any decent sized alliance would be smart enough to see the senerio you speak of as an easy payday and would check the map and maybe even make ops to go out and blow these little mining experiments to shreds. Plus if they had a POS somewhere in system and you wanted to take it for yourself. Or just make extra cash. Make a corp op to blockade it for a couple of weeks. Even if you just get your hands on one refiller indy that's still a good amount of money. (up to about 40mil if you catch em with the right stuff) If they're mining a moon... Even better. Plus I haven't tried it out lately, I'm thinking about it tonight. But it used to be the case that logout while you are scrambled does one thing.... leaves you scrambled. Your ship is still targetable and you can still be torn up.
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 17:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Myal Terego on 02/02/2005 17:12:28 Originally by: Attrezzo Pox [ EHHHHHHNNNNNN sorry wrong answer. Intelligent pirates would see local. yapyapyapyapyapyapyapyapypaypaypayapyapyapyapyapypaypayapyapyapyapyap im not even gonna dignify that with more then this, the gang leader might also be somewhat intelligent and warp the gang the moment u enter local. it does not matter if u would have a bookmark that brings u 100m beside the whole fleets position. since it would not be there when ur first interceptor come out of warp, ok? The whole story was to open ur eyes for MACRO MINING BUT SINCE IT IS FORBIDDEN TO TALK ABOUT IT I WROTE U A SCENARIO THAT DOESNT INVOLVE IT, BUT WHERE COULD STILL SEE THE POTENTIAL OF IT WHEN BEING USED. ok? there, marco mining is the issue, undetectable such since theres no cans for evidence. There u have it typed down word by word so every one of u daft idiots can understand what ive tried to say from the first begginng... locked for discussing bannable offences, now give me my warning and move on. PS Originally by: StarLite Psssst: elite indies have 0 turret hardpoints that would be so nice if it was true. DS [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Attrezzo Pox	Posted - 2005.02.02 17:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 02/02/2005 17:36:13 Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 02/02/2005 17:33:03 Originally by: Myal Terego Edited by: Myal Terego on 02/02/2005 17:12:28 Originally by: Attrezzo Pox [ EHHHHHHNNNNNN sorry wrong answer. Intelligent pirates would see local. yapyapyapyapyapyapyapyapypaypaypayapyapyapyapyapypaypayapyapyapyapyap im not even gonna dignify that with more then this, the gang leader might also be somewhat intelligent and warp the gang the moment u enter local. it does not matter if u would have a bookmark that brings u 100m beside the whole fleets position. since it would not be there when ur first interceptor come out of warp, ok? The whole story was to open ur eyes for MACRO MINING BUT SINCE IT IS FORBIDDEN TO TALK ABOUT IT I WROTE U A SCENARIO THAT DOESNT INVOLVE IT, BUT WHERE COULD STILL SEE THE POTENTIAL OF IT WHEN BEING USED. ok? there, marco mining is the issue, undetectable such since theres no cans for evidence. There u have it typed down word by word so every one of u daft idiots can understand what ive tried to say from the first begginng... locked for discussing bannable offences, now give me my warning and move on. PS Originally by: StarLite Psssst: elite indies have 0 turret hardpoints that would be so nice if it was true. DS Quit trying to find ways to make this your own personal hell. People can't do this now because???? because???? OH WAIT THEY CAN!!! THEY DO!!!! WE KILL THEM ANYWAY!!! so lets just say they get away and mine tons of ore yap yap yap yap yourself. They have to get it to empire to sell it. So they have bms. They're smarter stronger or more skilled then you. I guess you're screwed then huh. That's too bad you should quit the game now because some other corp outsmarted yours. If you're so sure it's a macro miner put it on fraps, take screenshots, report them. You should get with the program. There are places where you can capitalize on elite indies and if you feel that you'll never be able to kill one or that's the only way to profit from them then I guess you should consider joining them instead of fighting them. I honestly don't give a crap how easy it is for them to do whatever because if someone could do it before elite indies then they could now. If you wanna pull yourself down and blame all of this on CCP go ahead. They may nerf em. But it won't change the fact. If someone you're after is smarter, quicker, and all around better than you at the game it doesn't matter how nerfed or bloated or gimped anyone is they'll find a way to make it work for them. If you have a problem with that then you have a problem with society. There is nothing wrong with transports. They don't give that great of an advantage. They should help the market a little more by making it easier to move stuff... help some empire corps get out into deep space but is it all that bad? Do you really hate the idea of more trade running across your area that you can steal, take, buy, or sell to? I certianly don't. Deal with it. BTW It would be nice if CCP comped people who reported macro mining. For instance you properly report someone doing it CCP audits their account for awhile and determines you're right they ban them and you get all their stuff. That would prompt me to go on a hunt for the bsaratds. Or better yet give you some free months or something.
m0jo	Posted - 2005.02.02 17:45:00 - [24] Quote: Psssst: elite indies have 0 turret hardpoints Psssst: your wrong
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 17:49:00 - [25] what are you on about? what is it that i should fraps, the haulers mining in .5 while tanking npc and hauling it to station? A battleship npcing while a bunch of indys mine high end ore and hault it in? what would that prove? And outsmarted? Who outsmarted us, this was an example not an actual event.. too strong? whos too strong, where did u get that? I didnt complain about them ships having too much of this and that, although theres another thread about that.. i just want them to be used for what they are supposed to be used for, as u put it, "They should help the market a little more by making it easier to move stuff..", what i have a problem with is if they are used as a isk generating machine that doesnt require the player to even be there. I dont want them nerfed, they can have all the hitpoint and resistances they have now, fine with me, just dont make it possible to mine in them. [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Azmodaus	Posted - 2005.02.02 18:21:00 - [26] Sometimes it seems these "pirates" whine more than the carebears that they accuse of whining, and it always intails how pirateing is hard and should be easy.
Vashir Maturin	Posted - 2005.02.02 18:29:00 - [27] Sorry, just so I have this right: you think that elite indies should be nerfed to hell because you can think of one of the most unlikely and condition-dependant senarios this side of SETI@Home working? Pardon me while I laugh myself into a fit.
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2005.02.02 19:06:00 - [28] And this is only an Issue with Tech 2 haulers and not Tech 1 haulers because?
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.02.02 19:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Xavier Arron And this is only an Issue with Tech 2 haulers and not Tech 1 haulers because? because of their hitpoint/resistances. But nevermind, since im just whining. I clearly just want them "nerfed" by suggesting they keep all their hitpoints and slots, only not being able to fit a mining laser, and used as instended. [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
Zarquon Beeblebrox	Posted - 2005.02.02 19:37:00 - [30] Myal is absolutly right in what he says. And everyone that dont see this are either not so inteligent, dont know ship setups or dont want to becouse they intend using this them self. The thing with this ships is that they have the damage resistence to take some damage. They have the CPU/PG/Cap to run a small armour repari nonstop. They have the cargobay to realy hold huge amounts of hige end ore. The combination of this things make it exelent to use as myal describe. You can "macromine" with out using a macro. And if you did you dont have to use jetison cans anymore so there is no way for a GM to spot it anymore either. No take away the CPU so they cant fit a mining laser or do some change to the ship so they cant. -- Lady Beeblebrox Teddybears movies

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