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Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2003.07.01 04:30:00 -
[1]
One of the most annoying things is when the only place you can mine in safety is in a 0.8 and 1.0 secruity rating. Then when these systems are supposed to be safe a thief comes out of no where and steals your ore that you have mined from your floating cargo container. Then when you try to stop the thieves from stealing from you, the cops jump on you like you did something bad. What would be good to see in patches is to have something where you could shoot at the person, not in your gang, that is taking from your cargo container, and not have the cops jump on you. Even better idea is to be able to buy a lockable cargo container that could be jettison., and nobody could get into it unless they were in your gang or by entering a password.
Edited by: Fedaykin Naib on 01/07/2003 04:36:31
Edited by: Fedaykin Naib on 01/07/2003 04:47:46 |
Risith
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Posted - 2003.07.01 08:01:00 -
[2]
jettison verb [T]
1 to get rid of something or someone that is not wanted or needed:
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PIE Inc.
Director of Intelligence
For PIE Inc. news & announcements please visit: PIE |
Ansef Kador
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Posted - 2003.07.01 08:14:00 -
[3]
Try looking at it this way. When you put your ore in a container, you're putting money down on the sidewalk. Not only is it not illegal for someone to pick up your sidewalk money, you can be charged with assault if you then start a fight with them. And the police will be very, very upset with you if you shoot at them with lethal weapons for picking up your sidewalk money.
Now, this doesn't mean that this person picking up the money doesn't know they're doing something wrong. They probably even expect you to start a fight with them if you're standing right next to the money. But they still aren't doing anything illegal, and when you explain to the police "I shot him because when I threw my money on the curb and left it there he picked it up" you're pretty much going straight to jail. |
Reathe
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Posted - 2003.07.01 11:58:00 -
[4]
So start a war with there corp, not that hard really :)
Hummm
I wonder if you can start a war against one of the newbie corps? Does that mean you can pod newbies in high sec space with no penalties? Sure hope this is not possible :o
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.07.01 12:03:00 -
[5]
I picture griefers dropping pirate loot in asteroid belts just waiting for hapless n00b pirate hunters thinking it's a dropping of one of their pirates to kill them. Exploitable, bad, nada...
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Shayden
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Posted - 2003.07.01 13:52:00 -
[6]
hmm i think naib is right, this really is getting anoying, when u spend a hour mining 30k (thats 500.000isk worth) of pyro and some dude just comes up and steals half of it, thats anoying. The thing is, the new patch even changes the warp jam and defier to an ACTION thing, so now we cant even hold the thief down.
Putting ore in container is like putting money on the street?, well that makes absolutely no sense, why a person would do that, so plz dont compare to real life :)
Can with key on sounds wild but think about it, why shouldnt you be able to set a combination on you can. This should either cost some money or have some other sideaffects. I dont know what the solution will be but my system have had a moron here lately not speaking a bit english and just thinking he can steal our stuff we spend our time on. Now ppl who dont understand this or make weird compares, have not tried to have they ore stoled, its reaaally anoying.
What would a good solution be? How can we prevent the stealing, cuz if we cant, think about it why should you mine then?
Regards Shay
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Griss
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Posted - 2003.07.01 14:06:00 -
[7]
i havent reall looked in to it but there are secure containers. or at least i am told.
when i ninja mine with a standard cargo pod. i know i am taking a risk. i have even had to scare a fue people off. yes you are laying money on the road when you jettison cargo.
just rember greed will hurt you in the long run.
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nomad, vagabond, call me what you will. |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 14:50:00 -
[8]
Geee heres an idea.... fill up your cargo hold, go back to base and EMPTY it, rinse and repeat. There ya go no more worries about cargo theives.
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Minsc
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Posted - 2003.07.01 14:59:00 -
[9]
Gris is correct there are secure cargo containers on the market now, you just place a password on them and let your gang-members know it, then you only have to worry about the thief shooting your cargo, which should be considered a hostile act IMO if it is not already. (kinda like shooting someone's drone)
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Shayden
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:28:00 -
[10]
Grand im saying when you mine with a probe for instance and then go back and get your indie ship to haul, its here when you mine that a guy just show up and take it, and you can't do anything. You understand now? Dont say that we can just fill our cargo, nobody wants to go 30 trips back and forth or wait hours for indie ship to fill up cargo with only one miner.
Regards Shayden
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Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:32:00 -
[11]
shay
so your saying its ok for you to be too lazy to make the trips back n forth, but not ok for me to take advantage of your lazyness? Lol
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Cachorro Louco
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:35:00 -
[12]
Shayden, I do what you descripe. I sometimes mine with a probe or Stabber and then go back for my Indie. I understand that if I leave that container in that belt I just left I have basicly abandoned it. If it is gone, or half empty, when I return with the Indie such is life. Also, if I see another ship there at the time my stuff went missing I will assume that ship took it and take down the owners name for future contact for services rendered.
That is the price of none-group mining. Not a big deal in my book. But I do carry a grudge for a very long time (Italians are good for that). So if you steal from me I will get even. If not today or tomorrow then maybe next month. But, I will get satisfaction one way or the other.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:39:00 -
[13]
See thats the way it should be, when i take this stuff i expect someone to come after me for it. Its part of the game. There are so many ways to handle this its not funny.
1. dont eject cargo.
2. use a lockable container
3. use a buddy with a cargo ship
4. put a bounty on the thiefs head
5. declare war on the thiefs corp
6. take the sec hit and kill the thief
7. just shoot the can before he can take it
and still you folks whine
Edited by: Grand Negus on 01/07/2003 15:39:30
Edited by: Grand Negus on 01/07/2003 15:40:56
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:42:00 -
[14]
"so your saying its ok for you to be too lazy to make the trips back n forth, but not ok for me to take advantage of your lazyness? Lol"
It's OK for you to try to take advantage of our efficiency, as long as we can make you pay the penalty for theft. Problem is, we can't. I can't even webify thieves anymore.
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:45:00 -
[15]
bsod
thats one thing i agree with you on, there should be a way for you to fire on me when i steal this stuff. however all of my above options are available to you now.
Edited by: Grand Negus on 01/07/2003 15:45:57
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:55:00 -
[16]
"1. dont eject cargo.
2. use a lockable container
3. use a buddy with a cargo ship
4. put a bounty on the thiefs head
5. declare war on the thiefs corp
6. take the sec hit and kill the thief
7. just shoot the can before he can take it"
1 - Can't mine efficiently this way.
2 - Lockable containers are obscenely small
3 - We do this, canthieves still come in.
4 - If theft (a crime) caused a secstatus hit, then I would. But you can't bounty someone with a secstatus higher than -1
5 - Takes 48 hours (Edit: Also, you can't declare war on an NPC corp, many can*****s are in noob corps.)
6 - Impossible to regain sec status, and most of the time the cops will fry you first.
7 - We have done this. I'd rather have the ability to shoot the thief.
Edited by: BSOD on 01/07/2003 16:56:35
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Shayden
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:58:00 -
[17]
Yeah and i am also looking for a solution, because it just gotten worse with the new patch, thats why i am making my opinion.
And for the guy that said thats the result of not mining in group, NO, a guy in a indie can still steal your can in front of many others, because the wont be able to stop him, unless they want police chasing him WHICH also have been fixed so if you DO kill em, more will come. And thats simply not worth it. So this problem is aired now, i hope someone will look at this.
Shayden out.
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.07.01 16:15:00 -
[18]
What the hell is this "money on the sidewalk" analogy.. that's retarded. That's like saying it's ok to take mail out of a mailbox.
Walking up and taking someone's cargo is like stealing from a homeless person. Now that's an analogy.
And what's this "to lazy to make the trips back and forth" crap. That is simply less efficient. It's not a matter of ambition or stamina, it's about as much ore in the allotted time.
And FYI. I can scoop up my container with an indy quicker than you can approach it. You start coming towards my goods. I will have my indy back on the scene before you can say "greifer"..
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:07:00 -
[19]
mrnstuff
well you already have a solution to your problem so why are you here whineing again???
and to the rest of you who dont like the above listed options. I say tuff, everything has a cost. You should not be able to mine without a risk envolved. I do agree that you should be able to mitigate that risk.
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:40:00 -
[20]
dude.. Don't you think the "whining" insult is a little played out? At least use it where it's warranted.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:48:00 -
[21]
mrnstuff
It was just as appropriate as your "griefer" term. But on hindsight you are correct, I will not bother to respond to any further whining.
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Nightreign
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Posted - 2003.07.01 18:24:00 -
[22]
The thing is was it a mistake taking cargo you thought was yours or is it they came out and just stole it. As far as the money on the sidewalk would have to be a moron to just throw away money. Now a container of ore waiting for the indy to return to pick it up is diffrent im placing my sack of goods on the ground and filling it. Still my goods. And if i tell the cops i sat my sack of goods on the ground to get bus fare out and you came and stole it. They would arest you.
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Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 18:29:00 -
[23]
nightreign
I agree there needs to be a better system for this, I think that I as a thief should take sec hits for taking from those containers. Wont stop me, but it will allow people more options in dealing with it.
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Trilithium
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Posted - 2003.07.01 18:38:00 -
[24]
At the risk of people hunting me down because I am an attorney, I'll rebut the analogy to money on the sidewalk. =)
If a person places money on the sidewalk and continues to stand next to it, much as a miner with his containers floating nearby, and someone comes by and takes the money, IT IS THEFT under USA law. The reason: It is reasonable to assume that a person could be sorting out their pockets or wallet... I did this all the time when I was a kid at the pool... a person is just using the ground as a place to help them sort their money, much like they would use a tabletop. If you take the cash, you're going to jail. If the person who places the cash on the ground walks away from it, it would reasonably be perceived as his abandoning the money, and no crime would have been committed.
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Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.01 19:03:00 -
[25]
an attorney?!?! My god man have you no morals?!?! ;)
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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Trilithium
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Posted - 2003.07.01 19:10:00 -
[26]
/emote
Trilithium loads an extra pod...and a kevlar vest...
/emote off
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Lorek Kelden
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Posted - 2003.07.01 21:40:00 -
[27]
The answer to this is easy, Password Protected cargo containers you buy...
May the Spirit of New Eden shine brightly on your path. |
BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.02 14:13:00 -
[28]
"The answer to this is easy, Password Protected cargo containers you buy..."
My answer to that is: 490 cubic meter capacity, taking 500+ cubic meters in the hold, is an utter joke.
Note that one of my proposed solutions which was quite well received is fixing this by giving us secure containers that don't suck. I don't know anyone that uses secure cans right now.
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Grand Negus
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Posted - 2003.07.02 15:23:00 -
[29]
BSOD
I had another idea, have cargo contianers be bigger and sold in the marketplace. These containers would be open for all to use but would have to be carried to the mining site by the cargo ship. I.E. its too big for other ships to fit in its hold.
Also give corps the ability to find a BP to manufacture thier own cargo cans that are the same as the market ones, except thier only open to corp members, much like the corp hanger.
Now also add a skill which allows thiefs to open these secured cargo cans with a sec rating hit...
You could end up with the thief needing "cargo heist or whatever" skill lvl 3 to open your reaserched lvl 3 secured cargo can etc.
Here's my take on cargo can theft.
"Let me attack the dang miner who is stealing ore from my asteroids! Thier mine I tell ya! Mine! I just havnt gotten around to taking them back to base yet!"
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NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.07.02 15:28:00 -
[30]
The password protected cargo containers are the answer, pure and simple. Forget the cops, they won't do anything about nor should they on jettisoned items from a ship.
The Passworded containers are, however, horribly pathetic in their volume. How can you jettison a cargo container and have it hold 90k of Veldspar when your hold can only carry a few thousand? Where was this container stored and where does the ore go? Same place as the Tardis I bet.
Jettisoned cargo should be a 1 shot deal, it will only hold what you jettisoned and no more. The Passworded containers should be collapsable. Stored in a small amoutn of space, and when deployed, they expand to their full size.
The Password option is good as well and, since it is your property even tho it is jettisoned (what it is designed for) anyone who shoots it is shooting at your propery and therefor you can pop them like a zit.
There is not much time, let me sum up (sort of):
1) Jettisoned cargo is the only thing that should fit in the cargo container. Jettisoned as in you got rid of it, not yours anymore and fair game.
2) Passworded containers should be have more space (say 10x current sizes), be collapsable when stored and expand to full size when jettisoned. Be considered your property when in space.
3) They also have an in space lifespan of 2 hours and, after that time, they break down and go boom unless you pull them in and they have to be empty to do that.
4) If someone attacks your property in space, or tries an incorrect password 3 times, you can pop them like a zit unless they are in your gang. Just like in Animal House.
Edited by: NGRU Rix on 02/07/2003 15:29:54
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Kimi
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Posted - 2003.07.02 16:08:00 -
[31]
Passworded containers are NOT the answer. If they cannot steal it, they will often shoot the containers.
The very simple way is to make theft or container destruction a security hit. Problem solved.
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NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.07.02 16:35:00 -
[32]
As I said, they shoot your passworded container and you can shoot them in response.
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.02 18:17:00 -
[33]
Pretty much exactly what I proposed regarding containers - Overhaul secure containers, and institute penalties for container destruction and lockpicking. (Add a lockpicking skill and related modules to appease the thieves.)
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.02 22:31:00 -
[34]
Someone that is mining in a 1.0 system without an indy to pick up his ore as it comes out is rather stupid. Would you like a cookie with your glass of milk?
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Arondos
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Posted - 2003.07.03 00:55:00 -
[35]
"1. dont eject cargo.
2. use a lockable container
3. use a buddy with a cargo ship
4. put a bounty on the thiefs head
5. declare war on the thiefs corp
6. take the sec hit and kill the thief
7. just shoot the can before he can take it"
All the above are valid ideas
1 - Can't mine efficiently this way.
2 - Lockable containers are obscenely small
3 - We do this, canthieves still come in.
4 - If theft (a crime) caused a secstatus hit, then I would. But you can't bounty someone with a secstatus higher than -1
5 - Takes 48 hours (Edit: Also, you can't declare war on an NPC corp, many can*****s are in noob corps.)
6 - Impossible to regain sec status, and most of the time the cops will fry you first.
7 - We have done this. I'd rather have the ability to shoot the thief.
All the above are excuses to say. But I only want to have it my way.
And you would be the same person to whine when PC pirates storm into high security space because they nerfed the cops so you can blast him.
SImple fact in this game a cargo container floating in space is fair game for anyone wandering by to look in or take unless you use a secure one. You've been given ways to stop the problem and you won't use them so don't expect much pity from people.
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Serina Verity
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Posted - 2003.07.03 06:20:00 -
[36]
There is another way ...
Naming and shaming. A thief called 'Gold Brick' once stole about 250,000 ISK worth of ore from members of my corp during a mining operation. Our response was to visit all of the neighbouring systems broadcasting the event on the local channel to warn everyone else, so that as soon as someone saw him enter the belt they were working in, they could take appropriate action.
And that wasn't restricted to just the one system. This was done throughout the entire constellation.
Also that individual needs to hope that other corp members don't find him hanging around in a low security zone.
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.03 09:14:00 -
[37]
easy solution: give the owner and his gang members the right to pod kill the thief, problem solved.;
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.07.03 11:01:00 -
[38]
Another possible answer would be to have the ablity to transfer between ships, so any indy can accept ore directly from the mining ships.
This could add value to an indy as it would be the only ship type that has such a feature, and could be rolled into the game as an extention of the gang feature.
Relic
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Ubiq
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Posted - 2003.07.03 11:14:00 -
[39]
Here is an alternative. There are many high sec systems that have no stations or stations with no refining capablities. This sytems are always virtually empty and you can mine to your hearts content and leave containers around. Later you haul the stuff (helps having an indy) to the next closest system that has a station with a refinery (usually 1 or 2 jumps away).
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