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Brynhilda
Amarr
Gun Metal Hit Sqaud
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Posted - 2011.03.18 13:43:00 -
[1]
We all know the Legion is lacking when it compares to the other T3s and I realized this, I have....I've been thinking on how one could make the Legion...you know...USABLE to the point that it can be used to compete with the others...
The Liquid Crystal Magnifiers are pretty much the top mod laser mod but there is little difference between this mod and the Zealot. Perhaps an additional high slot + hard point would make it more viable.
Assault Optimization is said to put out the most DPS but is a joke compared to other missile systems. I was thinking maybe change the damage bonus to cover all types of launchers or at least a a velocity/flight type boost so that HAMs can actually travel further.
Covert Reconfiguration obviously needs a fix since the Legion's is terrible. Instead of cap bonus, I'd recommend a damage boost similar to faction ships with only 2 hard points and then an additional damage boost (akin to Sansha/Blood Raider ships).
Drone Synthesis Processor needs a big change. It basically just makes the Legion a big Arbitrator. Perhaps a bigger bonus to drone damage.
Other systems that need changes are obviously the Parasitic Energy Complex. The Pilgrim already is superior to the Legion in that way so its pointless to get one.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.03.18 13:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Swynet on 18/03/2011 13:57:20
I can't agree with all terms of your post mostly because I don't fly one, but I have friends flying those, so I will not debate something that has already ben explained times and times by experienced users having a perfect knowlege. (I can use EFT but....)
Is it only the sub bonus, the firepower the nbr of slots?
I can't seriously answer but I do agree the legion needs some little love (obvious diff of perfs).
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 Originally by: Goose99
In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:08:00 -
[3]
Drone sub - increase bandwidth to allow 2/2/1 or even 5 heavies
Liquid Crystal sub - really not bad as is
HAM sub - range bonus would be kind of nice, but is otherwise really not that bad
Neuting sub - bit of a range boost would be nice, somewhere between standard range and Curse range
Covops sub - I agree, change cap usage to something more usable, say rate of fire
Also, might want to look at the slot allocation again...the fact that (without even using covops or nullifier subs) you can easily put together a 7-high, 5-mid, 4-low slot on an Amarr ship is pretty ridiculous.
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I'm horrible at PVP |
Tarasina
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:14:00 -
[4]
Coming from a PVE perspective I feel the Legion needs more topspeed and agility. I fly Legion and loki side by side all the time. Legion = less than 600 ms, Loki = almost 800 ms. Legion turns like a fat cow too.
And comparing weapon systems to Loki, Legion is more vulnerable when it comes to being at right range. Out of optimal = no damage, in a Legion. Which suggests Legion should be faster than Loki. Yeah yeah, change ammo...and half the DPS.
A HAM Legion I would like to fly but there is no way to do it without dropping covert ops cloak which means the ship dies at first gatecamp. Expensive Sacrilege...
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Brynhilda
Other systems that need changes are obviously the Parasitic Energy Complex. The Pilgrim already is superior to the Legion in that way so its pointless to get one.
The Pilgrim can fit 5x Medium neuts, MWD, and run the neuts cap stable with mwd off, dualprop, AND have over 100k ehp with a covert ops cloak?
Cool, I didn't know that.
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tarasina
And comparing weapon systems to Loki, Legion is more vulnerable when it comes to being at right range. Out of optimal = no damage, in a Legion. Which suggests Legion should be faster than Loki.
How does it suggest that? Range is range, if the loki is too far it doesn't do any damage either. Relying more on optimal or falloff doesn't make a difference.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Tarasina
And comparing weapon systems to Loki, Legion is more vulnerable when it comes to being at right range. Out of optimal = no damage, in a Legion. Which suggests Legion should be faster than Loki.
How does it suggest that? Range is range, if the loki is too far it doesn't do any damage either. Relying more on optimal or falloff doesn't make a difference.
By getting to the target at a slower pace =). Lets say both ships start out at 40km from target. When I have reached the target area in my Legion, my Loki has already killed 1-2 cruisers. Feels like waiting for that special cousin that is a hillbilly or something =)
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Tarasina
And comparing weapon systems to Loki, Legion is more vulnerable when it comes to being at right range. Out of optimal = no damage, in a Legion. Which suggests Legion should be faster than Loki.
How does it suggest that? Range is range, if the loki is too far it doesn't do any damage either. Relying more on optimal or falloff doesn't make a difference.
By getting to the target at a slower pace =). Lets say both ships start out at 40km from target. When I have reached the target area in my Legion, my Loki has already killed 1-2 cruisers. Feels like waiting for that special cousin that is a hillbilly or something =)
Me legion goes almost 700 m/s, I suggest you get an afterburner.
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Amaha Masane
Caldari
Avalon Advanced Research and Development
Eclectic Collective
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tarasina
By getting to the target at a slower pace =). Lets say both ships start out at 40km from target. When I have reached the target area in my Legion, my Loki has already killed 1-2 cruisers. Feels like waiting for that special cousin that is a hillbilly or something =)
Sorry, was having a "Blasters vs. HPL/AC/Projectiles" argument flash back after reading this.
The legion has it's PvE niche, it's just that missions isn't it. Just stick with the Loki for missions (pimp it out a bit to speed it's completion time/survivability), use the Legion for areas it shines in, such as Wormholes
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rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: rodensteiner on 18/03/2011 17:40:46
Originally by: Qui Shon
The Legion (fixed for you) can fit 5x Medium neuts (112cap/s neuted vs 90 for three neut pilgrim), dualprop, and run the neuts cap stable with mwd off, AND have over 100k ehp with a covert ops cloak?
Cool, I didn't know that.
What would you do damage with, though?
Also, what makes the Legion so great at Wormholes like I keep hearing? Is it simply the no-ammo-usage thing because of lasers or am I missing something else?
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I'm horrible at PVP |
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Brynhilda
Amarr
Gun Metal Hit Sqaud
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Posted - 2011.03.18 17:41:00 -
[11]
I'm thinking the Legion on more PVP aspects.
For PVE, the only issue I have with the Legion is the lack of bonuses for the Assault Optimization since I live out in Guristas Null Sec so the Liquid Crystal Magnifiers aren't particularly effective against Guristas (I use a Drake instead).
However, for PVP, I find the Legion to be somewhat inflexible. It's either going to be an expensive Zealot,, Arbitrator or Sacrilege. Cloakie Laserboat with its bonus simply doesn't cut it since the other T3s are far superior.
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Dradius Calvantia
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Posted - 2011.03.18 20:15:00 -
[12]
I find it funny how it seems that every tech 3 three pilot has a thread up complaining about how their ship needs a boost in order to do X job as well as Y ship. Tech three ships are the same as any other in the game; they have some roles that they can do well and some that they can not. Hell some of those roles they can actually do well enough to justify their cost versus an alternative ship.
I fly a Proteus along with a friend in a Legion to roam through WH space. I have to say that the Legion definitely excels there and the Proteus is not to shabby either.
Although, I do understand how people might be confused about this as CCP touted Tech 3 ships as flexible cruisers that could do multiple things well. I have pretty much come to terms with the fact that this is not really the case. Except for the Tengu.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2011.03.18 23:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Tarasina
And comparing weapon systems to Loki, Legion is more vulnerable when it comes to being at right range. Out of optimal = no damage, in a Legion. Which suggests Legion should be faster than Loki.
How does it suggest that? Range is range, if the loki is too far it doesn't do any damage either. Relying more on optimal or falloff doesn't make a difference.
By getting to the target at a slower pace =). Lets say both ships start out at 40km from target. When I have reached the target area in my Legion, my Loki has already killed 1-2 cruisers. Feels like waiting for that special cousin that is a hillbilly or something =)
Me legion goes almost 700 m/s, I suggest you get an afterburner.
I guess I have a few skills not maxed then, good to know =). I have faction AB on it, 154 or 156% speed increase. Thing is, with tengu she travels at 620m/s, in Legion 550m/s. With the Tengu it doesn't matter much if it moved at all but... :P. Tengu is boring, to the point that I leave it docked up =).
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rampro
Heroes.
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Posted - 2011.03.19 00:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: rampro on 19/03/2011 00:20:27
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/03/2011 15:32:02
Originally by: Brynhilda
Other systems that need changes are obviously the Parasitic Energy Complex. The Pilgrim already is superior to the Legion in that way so its pointless to get one.
The Pilgrim can fit 5x Medium neuts (112cap/s neuted vs 90 for three neut pilgrim), dualprop, and run the neuts cap stable with mwd off, AND have over 100k ehp with a covert ops cloak?
Cool, I didn't know that.
Not that this is how I would fit a Legion, just something I threw together to mimic the Pilgrim, sans the drones which is under 250dps anyway, on the Pilgrim.
can u show me this legion fit please
i dont wanna see ccc's and cap recharge :)
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Forum Troll Trolling
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Posted - 2011.03.19 01:53:00 -
[15]
I took my pimp fit legion out for some PVE activity, 3 days after getting it, it dies in a fire...
800 mil down the drain and spent an entire month training to fly it just for it to die in a fire...
**** me...
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Arushia
Nova Labs
New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.03.19 08:06:00 -
[16]
Maybe I'm just a terminal drone addict, but I think the HAM and Laser subsystems could use 25 drone bay and bandwidth.
And yes, drone subsystem needs major work.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:51:00 -
[17]
The Legion with drone sub, med pulse lasers & 3 neuts is fun, has about 1/2 again the tank of the average curse build and over 425 DPS without heat, all while 3 medium neuts are cranking -810 cap on the target. I wouldn't fit it with the Cov Ops sub since that would gimp it substantially. Yeah, it's not as good as the Loki or the Tengu. It's still fun though.
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rampro
Heroes.
Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:12:00 -
[18]
cloaky could be used for catching plexers but ud just use a pilgrim suppose ;/
I agree with the extra turret for lazors idea would make it more sexy with really good dps in my humble opinion.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:48:00 -
[19]
One of the problems I see with the Legion is the inability to fit a super strong tank.
I mean in comparison with say the proteus IE:
The proteus gets 7 low slots unless youre using it for boost RR or interdictuon nullification (or the crazy gravitational capacitor one that nobody uses)
On the other hand, the Legion has all of those limitations and if you want to use the drone subsystem, the the covert subsystem, the power core multiplier or the augmented capacitor, youre limited to 6
if you want to use the ship as a covert RR platform youre limited to a max of 5 lows, and if you try to use the power core multiplier youre limited to a max of 4; this doesnt seem right to me as the least low slots the proteus can ever have is 5
In most cases, the proteus will have less mids and more lows than the legion . . . this doesnt sound like the usual gallente/amarr ship interactions.
My solution is to add a low and remove a mid from the power core and augmented capacitor subsystems for the legion, and add a low and remove a high from the covert and drone subsystems.
Maybe remove a mid and add a low to the tactical targeting and dissolution sequencer subsystems
I dont think the drone subsystem needs a buff in bandwidth because even fully droned out, the proteus cant field a full set of heavys, I think the legion is fine where it is, maybe add a turret but no extra grid
what do you think?
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.03.20 01:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Aamrr on 20/03/2011 01:06:01
The tengu has 12 effective hardpoints.
The legion has 9 effective hardpoints.
...upgrade the laser subsystem to give a 15% damage bonus per level, instead of 10%. You'll get 10.5 effective hardpoints, and the problem will be solved.
Well, mostly. Fix the electronics subsystems so they all give one fewer midslot and one more low slot. Oh, and the drone subsystem has its own problems. 
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Salvia Olima
The All-Seeing Eye
Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:24:00 -
[21]
Legion should have a 50m3 dronebay (and enough bandwidth for 5x med T2 drones) in it's hull.
It would make it more capable for solo work. A range bonus would be nice for the HAM sub too.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.03.20 21:13:00 -
[22]
I'd leave the drones for the drone subsystem, personally.
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.03.21 13:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Janos Saal on 21/03/2011 13:17:05
Originally by: Aamrr
I'd leave the drones for the drone subsystem, personally.
Would you also leave out turrets unless you equip the laser subsystem? The subsystems should grant bonuses to certain fittings, not switch them on and off entirely.
Quote:
My solution is to add a low and remove a mid from the power core and augmented capacitor subsystems for the legion, and add a low and remove a high from the covert and drone subsystems.
The most vocal complaint about the Covert sub is that its bonuses do nothing to enhance its firepower in combat (unlike all other T3 covert subs) and your plan is to subtract turret slots from this sub? Clever.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.03.21 20:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Janos Saal
Originally by: Sigras
My solution is to add a low and remove a mid from the power core and augmented capacitor subsystems for the legion, and add a low and remove a high from the covert and drone subsystems.
The most vocal complaint about the Covert sub is that its bonuses do nothing to enhance its firepower in combat (unlike all other T3 covert subs) and your plan is to subtract turret slots from this sub? Clever.
Read your quote again, I said nothing about removing a turret from the covert subsytstem, Im talking about removing a utility high slot to add an additional low allowing you to possibly put a heatsink there to increase damage.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.03.22 08:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aamrr on 22/03/2011 08:33:03
Sigras, I believe he was talking to me. And if he had read my proposal in its entirety, he would have seen that I proposed adding a +100% damage role bonus to the covert ops subsystem. That gives it four effective turrets with my suggestion, SIX with the appropriate engineering subsystem.
How many does it have now? Just four (or five)? With the capacitor bonus, which I have also conveniently replaced by halving the turrets. Funny how things change when you don't read the entirety of a post, aye?
As for the low slots, I ALSO suggested modifying the electronics subsystems to move a mid to a low, allowing for the possibility of an additional heat sink, so it appears that Sigras and I agree that the Legion needs that particular problem addressed. However, I chose to address it in a way that let the Legion keep its utility high slot niche (no other T3 gives a bonus utility high with its electronics subsystems) and instead draws it from midslots -- something the legion is practically drowning in.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.03.22 18:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aamrr
Originally by: Sigras
Read your quote again, I said nothing about removing a turret from the covert subsytstem,
I believe he was talking to me, as I addressed earlier in my post.
but he quoted me :(
Originally by: Aamrr
Originally by: Sigras
Im talking about removing a utility high slot to add an additional low allowing you to possibly put a heatsink there to increase damage.
To be honest, I'm rather averse to do that, as the utility high slot is a unique niche on the Legion. No other T3 gets the ability to gain a utility high slot except through abusing the logistics subsystem. Instead, I suggested modifying the electronics subsystems to move a mid to a low, allowing for the possibility of an additional heat sink, In this way, I can let the Legion keep its utility high slot niche and instead draw from midslots -- something the legion is practically drowning in.
Well the emergent locus and energy parasitic subsystems provide a utility high still.
also, I too advised to remove some midslots as the legion usually gets more than the proteus which is just wrong.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.03.22 20:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sigras
Well the emergent locus and energy parasitic subsystems provide a utility high still.
Yup. Just wanting to keep it that way 
Originally by: Sigras
also, I too advised to remove some midslots as the legion usually gets more than the proteus which is just wrong.
Quite unfortunate, I agree.
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