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Wormhole POS's are too protected by the wormhole limits and safe

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Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:15:00 - [61] Edited by: Qui Shon on 22/03/2011 08:18:31 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/03/2011 08:14:58 Originally by: Qui Shon None, but corpies took down three POS in a C2 last weekend. I've taken down faction deathstars in C5/C6 though.(No not alone obviously) Do either of these count? Seeing as how my complaint is purely about the power of a POS in a C1/2.... no your experience taking down (and losing) death stars in a C5/6 doesn't count. ;-) -Liang Did you miss the part about THREE regular towers in the C2 just last weekend? Now I'm not going to say they were competently fit or defended, but all that would do is increase the numbers and patience needed. Maybe I'd have had to drag my ass down there too, even bring the alt :p
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:20:00 - [62] I didn't miss it. It isn't relevant because you didn't describe the situation in any meaningful manner. Also, my laptop battery is toast. See you tomorrow. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Catori Fala Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:23:00 - [63] Edited by: Catori Fala on 22/03/2011 08:25:17 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/03/2011 08:14:58 Originally by: Qui Shon None, but corpies took down three POS in a C2 last weekend. I've taken down faction deathstars in C5/C6 though.(No not alone obviously) Do either of these count? Seeing as how my complaint is purely about the power of a POS in a C1/2.... no your experience taking down (and losing) death stars in a C5/6 doesn't count. ;-) -Liang While your complaint may have some validity just saying 'no possible!' when it obviously is doesn't help. C1/C2 corps tend not to be that big, not enough to sustain them.. so even if they do have caps they most likely have no support fleet to go with them. If they come out of the shields they can be killed and plenty of people put crazy expensive **** on their caps in wspace so nice loot. Just because you can't waltz a bunch of dreads and BS into a hole and lay waste to everything before tea time doesn't mean it's broken. Liang, also.. you say to Qui he provides no meaningful context.. but what meaningful attempts have you ever made to actually do what we're talking about?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:31:00 - [64] Edited by: Qui Shon on 22/03/2011 08:32:36 Originally by: Liang Nuren I didn't miss it. It isn't relevant because you didn't describe the situation in any meaningful manner. Also, my laptop battery is toast. See you tomorrow. -Liang Aha, your forum defense is getting weaker and weaker. The statistics are against you, see QEN. My personal experience is against you, as is that of my corp and most big WH corps as well. Your claim of "not relevant" is silly, because you can always dream up some fantastic scenario where a C2 is defended by endless amounts of caps and support fleet, when in practice that doesn't happen. And I can just as well counter it with an equally fantastic assault fleet, since your scenario is just fantasy. And now your laptop is even telling you to stop poasting
GizzyBoy	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Liang Nuren I didn't miss it. It isn't relevant because you didn't describe the situation in any meaningful manner. Also, my laptop battery is toast. See you tomorrow. -Liang FYI while metagaming this thread, i've picked up at least 2 of your alts.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Tub Chil What exactly is your point? what you want to change? where do you see a gameplay flaw? Wormholes are not dangerious enough, especially for POS owners in them compared to nullsec. Wormholes should be more dangerious. You have a 100% chance of losing every ship you fly regularly within a wh within a reasonable amount of time save for your cov-ops types. Be it sleeper or players you're going to lose ships. If you're not losing ships then I'd ask you to leave the FF on occasion. Or perhaps you need to seek out more dangerous levels of wh. The only way to make w-space more dangerous is to make spontaneous podding a reality. So , stop trying to make everyone else's game play miserable because you're bored, mmkay?
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:53:00 - [67] Found another WH, this one opened up onto Rens TWICE in 2 days and 5 jumps from Amarr. No problem for this one to resupply either.
Beaudinot Elishah Atavuli	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:28:00 - [68] Originally by: Diablo Ex but they have massive handicaps.....You can go for weeks on end without having a highsec WH spawn,... Do you mean to say that all they'll use are hisec WH's to resupply with? If that's the case then they certainly don't deserve the cash cow that WH space is.
rock crawlermne	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:49:00 - [69] Edited by: rock crawlermne on 22/03/2011 13:51:05 Edited by: rock crawlermne on 22/03/2011 13:49:17 Originally by: Miilla Rubbish; I was in a WH from rens, with CORP POS's in it. Then that WH collapsed. I scanned down another, guess where it opened up to? 4 Jmps from JITA. They obviously have no problems. Originally by: Miilla Found another WH, this one opened up onto Rens TWICE in 2 days and 5 jumps from Amarr. No problem for this one to resupply either. LOL visiting a class 1 or 2 WH from rens is way different then living in one. Imagine the logical nightmare in trying to refuel a pos in a C6 WH, that is at least 3 WH jumps from any known space, most of the time Null sec. There's no real profit to be made in the WH's you're finding. If you knew anything about WH living you'd know that there are more then the high sec linked WH's. And that when you get really deap into WH space, you can jump a cap threw, or at least a fleet big enough to pos bash. You're posting about stuff you don't know about. Stop it.
Titus Phook Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:50:00 - [70] Originally by: Fkn Arson Must agree with Val here, on both accounts. You are completely safe inside WH space, your capital assembly array fit POS with 6 SMA's full of capital ships will never be attacked and all of your officer fit items are safe inside your sleeper killing T3's. A small correction is in order, you can't use a capital assembly array in a wormhole, that requires sov. Other than that nice post. ---------------------------------------------
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:02:00 - [71] Originally by: rock crawlermne LOL visiting a class 1 or 2 WH from rens is way different then living in one. Imagine the logical nightmare in trying to refuel a pos in a C6 WH, that is at least 3 WH jumps from any known space, most of the time Null sec. A freighter twice a year? Not such a nightmare.
Grog Barrel	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:07:00 - [72] Originally by: Tub Chil What exactly is your point? what you want to change? where do you see a gameplay flaw? background: they are bored of declaring war to random 0.0 alliance, since sitting in Jita 7/24 would not be funny even for an ape. Now they want to expand their operations...
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Qui Shon The statistics are against you, see QEN. The QEN didn't break things down by wormhole class. Quote: My personal experience is against you, as is that of my corp and most big WH corps as well. You didn't say anything at all about the circumstances surrounding it. "3 POS" could be small no gun POSes for all I know (though truth be told there's more medium and larges with horrible gun setups). Quote: Your claim of "not relevant" is silly, because you can always dream up some fantastic scenario where a C2 is defended by endless amounts of caps and support fleet, when in practice that doesn't happen. And I can just as well counter it with an equally fantastic assault fleet, since your scenario is just fantasy. Funny you should say that considering I've seen it, and the guy with a post right above mine says they have 5 caps in a C2. In other news, him telling us that they have 5 caps in a C2 made me want to kill them. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
rock crawlermne	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:04:00 - [74] Originally by: Qui Shon A freighter twice a year? Not such a nightmare. Wow maybe I'm the only one that dreads taking a freighter through Low sec...as most high sec holes arn't able to sustain a frighters mass. And what happens to your fuel when that frighter falls victim to a group of lowsec pirats? I'm just pointing out that WH pos's arn't this super fortress that OP claims they are, and that OP's clearly just forum trolling
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:11:00 - [75] C1-C4's are pretty damn safe if you've built capitals in there to defend them. Doesn't apply to C5's or C6's though as you can get capitals in there just fine. I'd be in favor of not being able to build capitals in C1's to C4's where you cannot get them in in another way either. --- Drykor - AHARM
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:25:00 - [76] Originally by: rock crawlermne Wow maybe I'm the only one that dreads taking a freighter through Low sec...as most high sec holes arn't able to sustain a frighters mass. And what happens to your fuel when that frighter falls victim to a group of lowsec pirats? If you're careful (escort + proper scouting), getting a freighter through low sec isn't that bad. I mean, sure, don't go hauling through Auga/Amamake ... ;-) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:27:00 - [77] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 22/03/2011 15:30:11 Originally by: rock crawlermne Wow maybe I'm the only one that dreads taking a freighter through Low sec...as most high sec holes arn't able to sustain a frighters mass. And what happens to your fuel when that frighter falls victim to a group of lowsec pirats? just a question of risk management competent scouting, unpopular timezone, not more than a few jumps deep into low-sec, webbing alts & sufficient readiness to cancel the op as soon as sth looks fishy -> no reason why you can't take a freighter into low-sec.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: Your claim of "not relevant" is silly, because you can always dream up some fantastic scenario where a C2 is defended by endless amounts of caps and support fleet, when in practice that doesn't happen. And I can just as well counter it with an equally fantastic assault fleet, since your scenario is just fantasy. Funny you should say that considering I've seen it, and the guy with a post right above mine says they have 5 caps in a C2. In other news, him telling us that they have 5 caps in a C2 made me want to kill them. -Liang And that still doesn't sound very fancy, or "untake-able". Even if you combine what you've seen, with that guys five caps. I'm betting they don't have much of a support fleet, and if they like to parade those caps around then indeed they sound like a juicy target. Go for it, it can be done and you know it.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:04:00 - [79] Originally by: rock crawlermne Originally by: Qui Shon A freighter twice a year? Not such a nightmare. Wow maybe I'm the only one that dreads taking a freighter through Low sec...as most high sec holes arn't able to sustain a frighters mass. And what happens to your fuel when that frighter falls victim to a group of lowsec pirats? I'm just pointing out that WH pos's arn't this super fortress that OP claims they are, and that OP's clearly just forum trolling You can take a D792 then, if you don't want to risk lowsec. Finding two a year isn't very much. We find one like every other week or so. WH POS's are indeed not super fortresses, although in a C1 they are super annoying time-wasters, if you want to take them down, but certainly doable there too. Logistics of W-space isn't a big deal though, in fact I would like it to be much harder still, especially the higher classes. I would want more w-space connections and fewer k-space connections, so that you could actually get stuck for more then a few hours with your subcap fleet, even with competent scanners. At least caps can sometimes get stuck for a week or two if they venture into a system with C4 or below static. There's no real "lost in space" feeling to it anymore, now that you don't get hordes of noobs coming in without adequate probing gear, and now that wormhole mechanics are so well documented. I think CCP should reintroduce some risk and hardship just from the environment, make w-space significantly different from k-space again.
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:16:00 - [80] I would say that IF you had a corp of perhaps 20-30 players, and you built enough carriers in the wormhole for each of them to pilot, then sure, it's now going to be hard to crack. A lot of empire pos kill corps have moved to WH space because it's a lot easier than Empire, and doesnt carry as much of the risk as deep 0.0 I ran pos's in lowsec (not nullsec) for a long time and they NEVER got blown up. I know a lot of people who put up towers in crappy WH locations just so they can mine and such, and they end up finding the pos getting pummeled by large bship fleets. If it was fairly impossible to take down towers in a WH, then your best way to counter would be to put up a tower (as, occording to your own statment, they are safe)... If a corp has built dreads in a pos, then I would LOL at them ;). ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:25:00 - [81] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/03/2011 16:26:40 Originally by: Qui Shon WH POS's are indeed not super fortresses, although in a C1 they are super annoying time-wasters, if you want to take them down, but certainly doable there too. .... And that still doesn't sound very fancy, or "untake-able". Even if you combine what you've seen, with that guys five caps. I'm betting they don't have much of a support fleet, and if they like to parade those caps around then indeed they sound like a juicy target. Go for it, it can be done and you know it. Of course it can be done. As you yourself said: the prospect of taking down a well defended C1/2 is really annoying. Really, really annoying. I think for the most part I'd have a pretty major jones if I saw a low level WH with a cap fleet. Afterall... I don't have to kill their POS to kill their caps. :) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:34:00 - [82] Lol, speak of the devil. Buddy just found a Phoenix in a C1.....now that's the kind of ****ed that is SO much more common then a competent cap fleet + support + proper death/**star in low classes.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Qui Shon Lol, speak of the devil. Buddy just found a Phoenix in a C1.....now that's the kind of ****ed that is SO much more common then a competent cap fleet + support + proper death/star in low classes. If you guys can wait until I get home tonight..... -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.03.22 16:52:00 - [84] Originally by: Liang Nuren Of course it can be done. As you yourself said: the prospect of taking down a well defended C1/2 is really annoying. Really, really annoying. I think for the most part I'd have a pretty major jones if I saw a low level WH with a cap fleet. Afterall... I don't have to kill their POS to kill their caps. :) -Liang I can't imagine how invading a C2 would be hard. You can fit battleships through the wormholes, and you can very easily find long chains from them with multiple k-space access points. The only real annoyance would be controlling/closing all the wormholes so they don't evac everything Definitely right about the C1s though _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.22 17:35:00 - [85] Or you could blow their mind entirely and not have a POS for them to camp. Nomads can be a powerful thing done right. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
rock crawlermne	Posted - 2011.03.22 19:59:00 - [86] Originally by: Cyaxares II competent scouting, unpopular timezone, not more than a few jumps deep into low-sec, webbing alts & sufficient readiness to cancel the op as soon as sth looks fishy -> no reason why you can't take a freighter into low-sec. O right... Grabs hold of balls Forgot I'll be needing these to play Eve. Thanks for the reminder lol.
T'san Manaan Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.22 21:20:00 - [87] 9/10. Was going to give 4/10 but the anger in the responses was great. would read again.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 22:10:00 - [88] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Qui Shon Lol, speak of the devil. Buddy just found a Phoenix in a C1.....now that's the kind of ****ed that is SO much more common then a competent cap fleet + support + proper death/**star in low classes. If you guys can wait until I get home tonight..... -Liang Hehe, well you might have to take down that pos after all, the Phoenix was floating inside shields and I can't image why they'd take it outside shields. There shouldn't be anything in there that would take any damage from citadel missiles. Unless someone else puts up a pos in there, then maybe you could use it to bash the invader pos. Large Caldari pos with four or five neuts, a fair amount of jammers and some guns. I'll agree that in a C1 that would be quite annoying, and very time consuming. Ishtars and Gilas come to mind.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.03.22 22:21:00 - [89] My statement about a month after the Apocrypha release: Class 1 & Class 2 WH's are the safest place in eve to anchor a pos. I stand by that to this day.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.22 22:39:00 - [90] I'm sure the Phoenix is there to kill other POSes that get anchored. Can you get me in? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter

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