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Buff Caldari T2

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NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:38:00 - [1] Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 13:44:19 Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 13:38:29 Please? Its embarrassing. Cerb: Rook(A recon!) can be a better brawler, drake is the same thing but cheaper. Only use is lobbing missiles 200km which in the year I have been in EVE I have never seen done. Eagle: Like the MOA, sucks. Raptor: This ship still exists? Crow: Is fine. Harpy: Is Fine. Hawk: Out tanked, out gunned, and out ran by the Jaguar. Nighthawk: God I am so mad at this ship. GIVE IT MORE GRID. The HML weapon system alone eats your entire grid and even with a faction RCU (+15.5%) it doesn't fit. And its slow! I get it, Caldari has an insane amount of damage projection and in a 5 Caracal vs 5 ruptures if the Caracals spread out they would win. But fights are insanely rarely that coordinated. I am sure CCP does alot more testing than I do and I am sure they made the hawk "balanced" but i just wish they let us in on how they judged it. If they discovered some unique way to use the ship that made it stand toe to toe with a jag/ishkur/vengeance I want to know about it.
Korg Tronix The Mabinogion	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:49:00 - [2] Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 13:44:19 Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 13:38:29 Please? Its embarrassing. Cerb: Rook(A recon!) can be a better brawler, drake is the same thing but cheaper. Only use is lobbing missiles 200km which in the year I have been in EVE I have never seen done. Eagle: Like the MOA, sucks. Raptor: This ship still exists? Crow: Is fine. Harpy: Is Fine. Hawk: Out tanked, out gunned, and out ran by the Jaguar. Nighthawk: God I am so mad at this ship. GIVE IT MORE GRID. The HML weapon system alone eats your entire grid and even with a faction RCU (+15.5%) it doesn't fit. And its slow! I get it, Caldari has an insane amount of damage projection and in a 5 Caracal vs 5 ruptures if the Caracals spread out they would win. But fights are insanely rarely that coordinated. I am sure CCP does alot more testing than I do and I am sure they made the hawk "balanced" but i just wish they let us in on how they judged it. If they discovered some unique way to use the ship that made it stand toe to toe with a jag/ishkur/vengeance I want to know about it. Most of the issues with the caldari t2 line come from the weapon systems Eagle sucks because rails suck and blasters arent great. Cerberus sucks because its a sniper with a delayed weapon system, although its great at doing the whole anti-support job. The nighthawk only need more grid if you want to HAM fit it, you can fit it like a HML Drake quite easily. Only problem is it isnt much better than the Drake in this situation.
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.03.23 13:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Korg Tronix The nighthawk only need more grid if you want to HAM fit it, you can fit it like a HML Drake quite easily. Only problem is it isnt much better than the Drake in this situation. So it only needs more grid if you don't want it to be like the much cheaper drake? That is your counter argument? And try to fit HAM's on it and let me know how much grid you have left :) It needs more grid so It can be active tanked. The Minmatar command ship is able to use its weapon systems with an over sized booster AND a mwd AND a neut and I can't even get the weapon system + mwd + tank on it. It is a joke and seriously needs to be looked at. Also with your suggestion that it isn't the ship, its the weapon systems: There are plenty of ships that make these weapon systems work beautifully. Tengu/Drake are able to make the HML platform work well. Harpy is able to make the blasters work well, etc. The Cerb just sucks period. As does the Night Hawk.
Korg Tronix The Mabinogion	Posted - 2011.03.23 14:17:00 - [4] Edited by: Korg Tronix on 23/03/2011 14:26:48 Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Originally by: Korg Tronix The nighthawk only need more grid if you want to HAM fit it, you can fit it like a HML Drake quite easily. Only problem is it isnt much better than the Drake in this situation. So it only needs more grid if you don't want it to be like the much cheaper drake? That is your counter argument? And try to fit HAM's on it and let me know how much grid you have left :) It needs more grid so It can be active tanked. The Minmatar command ship is able to use its weapon systems with an over sized booster AND a mwd AND a neut and I can't even get the weapon system + mwd + tank on it. It is a joke and seriously needs to be looked at. Also with your suggestion that it isn't the ship, its the weapon systems: There are plenty of ships that make these weapon systems work beautifully. Tengu/Drake are able to make the HML platform work well. Harpy is able to make the blasters work well, etc. The Cerb just sucks period. As does the Night Hawk. Tengu and drake arent missile snipers like the cerberus. The Cerberus sucks because no one needs to use it in its design role (sniper) because no one waits around for the 20s it takes for the missiles to hit. No my counter argument was that the Nighthawk is designed to be a Heavy Missile boat not a HAM boat hence its bonuses being geared towards heavy missiles. Then I went on to say that the reason it still seems lack lustre is the Drake does nearly the same job as the Heavy Missile Nighthawk for less money. Even if it had the grid to fit an XL boosted Active tank this would still be the case. edit. You can actually get a fairly good LSB active tank on the NightHawk around 870dps burst tank with the blue pill and crystals
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.03.23 15:25:00 - [5] Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 15:34:18 Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 15:31:53 Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 23/03/2011 15:27:56 Quote: You can actually get a fairly good LSB active tank on the NightHawk around 870dps burst tank with the blue pill and crystals Link the fit as I have crystals and I can't get anywhere near that in LSB configuration unless using deadspace. If deadspace 870 burst is pathetic. Just EFTed it: You can't even fit HML + MWD + LSB without being out of grid, let alone a cap booster which is required. If that doesn't show you the grid is seriously messed up nothing will. FeroxGR: 1343.75 NH Grid: 887.5 DrakeGR: 1168.75 Quote: No my counter argument was that the Nighthawk is designed to be a Heavy Missile boat not a HAM boat hence its bonuses being geared towards heavy missiles. Then I went on to say that the reason it still seems lack lustre is the Drake does nearly the same job as the Heavy Missile Nighthawk for less money. Even if it had the grid to fit an XL boosted Active tank this would still be the case. Going to re-word my argument as I think you are confused as to what I meant. My argument is that lack of grid causes the NightHawk to be nothing more than an expensive drake. Regardless of the bonuses and tech 2 resists. Not that its supposed to be a HAM boat or whatever it is you thought I meant. We all know its an expensive drake, I'm saying the REASON is because of the grid. More grid would mean either a HAM brawler or a nano HML active tank mini-tengu of death.
Korg Tronix The Mabinogion	Posted - 2011.03.23 15:45:00 - [6] Edited by: Korg Tronix on 23/03/2011 15:46:03 Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Quote: You can actually get a fairly good LSB active tank on the NightHawk around 870dps burst tank with the blue pill and crystals Link the fit as I have crystals and I can't get anywhere near that in LSB configuration unless using deadspace. If deadspace 870 burst is pathetic. Just EFTed it: You can't even fit HML + MWD + LSB without being out of grid, let alone a cap booster which is required. If that doesn't show you the grid is seriously messed up nothing will. FeroxGR: 1343.75 NH Grid: 887.5 DrakeGR: 1168.75 [Nighthawk, Active Nighthawk] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II True Sansha Reactor Control Unit Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Hobgoblin II x5 Not amazing but it isnt expensive. Yes you do run out of grid but you do when trying to active tank most caldari battlecruisers. Quote: Quote: No my counter argument was that the Nighthawk is designed to be a Heavy Missile boat not a HAM boat hence its bonuses being geared towards heavy missiles. Then I went on to say that the reason it still seems lack lustre is the Drake does nearly the same job as the Heavy Missile Nighthawk for less money. Even if it had the grid to fit an XL boosted Active tank this would still be the case. Going to re-word my argument as I think you are confused as to what I meant. My argument is that lack of grid causes the NightHawk to be nothing more than an expensive drake. Regardless of the bonuses and tech 2 resists. Not that its supposed to be a HAM boat or whatever it is you thought I meant. We all know its an expensive drake, I'm saying the REASON is because of the grid. More grid would mean either a HAM brawler or a nano HML active tank mini-tengu of death. Ah I see what you mean. My point was even with the grid increase, it still wont perform that much better than a drake in most roles other than shooting frigates with HML. edit. apparently I cant multi quote
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.03.23 15:56:00 - [7] Quote: Ah I see what you mean. My point was even with the grid increase, it still wont perform that much better than a drake in most roles other than shooting frigates with HML. Try it: I quickly put this together with the grid of the standard ferox and all tech 2 I get: 800 DPS out to 18km with HAM and Hobs 90,000 EHP 161 Passive tank WITH MWD + MEDIUM NEUT + Scram If that isn't a gangsta brawler I don't know what is. Should I fit out a X-Large active - HML version also or do you get my point?
Korg Tronix The Mabinogion	Posted - 2011.03.23 16:00:00 - [8] Edited by: Korg Tronix on 23/03/2011 16:04:12 Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Quote: Ah I see what you mean. My point was even with the grid increase, it still wont perform that much better than a drake in most roles other than shooting frigates with HML. Try it: I quickly put this together with the grid of the standard ferox and all tech 2 I get: 800 DPS out to 18km with HAM and Hobs 90,000 EHP 161 Passive tank WITH MWD + MEDIUM NEUT + Scram If that isn't a gangsta brawler I don't know what is. Should I fit out a X-Large active - HML version also or do you get my point? I quickly put a HAM Drake together and the only thing your getting for the extra money is a medium neut instead of a small and a tiny bump in ehp and dps My drake gets 721dps with HAMs and Hobs and 83k ehp with a 149dps passive tank. So you see with that extra powergrid you still gain very little over the drake. edit. the drake is insurable as well. Personally atm I would rather invest the isk in damage implants for missiles then just use drakes for a cheaper still effective time
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.03.23 16:15:00 - [9] Quote: My drake gets 721dps with HAMs and Hobs and 83k ehp with a 149dps passive tank. So you see with that extra powergrid you still gain very little over the drake. You're going to need to link this fit again as the only way you get close to that is with 4x ballastics (I'm showing 711dps) and then you have no RCU/PDS so no grid left for any LSE and I'm not showing anywhere near 83k EHP And this is eve, where you pay 200MIL for 10% more effectiveness :)

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