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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.03.23 15:47:00 -
[1]
having participated in nullsec combat previously, i've seen the massive supercap fleets almost ignore hostile subcaps and obliterate stationary targets. i've seen drake blobs that numbered over a hundred. and i've seen a system that had deathstar pos on every moon.
my question is simple. how would an alliance from wh space and hisec overcome these obstacles and claim space independant from the big boys?
i have a few ideas on the subject.
1: use lowsec to build a capship fleet. this would still put us at a disadvantage in a large fight due to our inability to build supercaps.
2: find undesirable space. if we claim space that people are not willing to fight over, then we will probably get less of a fight over it.
3: make space undesirable. basicly, use sb and black ops to prevent anything from occuring in a couple systems while ignoring the stationary assets. use an covops ship fitted with stealth cyno to moniter systems, and drop sb on them whenever they try to do anything. in doing so, we would have to move all hisec assets and live out of our whs in order to prevent effective retaliation.
am i missing something here? and would these strategies work?
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RetardedNeuron
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Posted - 2011.03.23 15:56:00 -
[2]
Just pick an uninhabited NPC constellation, easily identifiable by checking 24hr NPC Kills on Dotlan, and call it home. Spend a few months learning and becoming proficient in null-sec operations and logistics. Then, and only then, if you find the alliance has had the participation and bank account to back it, start looking into the purchase of sov structures and potential ****ty non-NPC territory. Truth be told, there is little incentive for a small or new alliance to attempt a move into non-NPC space.
If you REALLY want to be in non-NPC space, find a coalition that is looking for new members. Chances are you will have to rent at the start, but will earn partner status eventually.
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.03.23 15:58:00 -
[3]
you could join a coalition and buy rented space to get your foot in the door...
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.03.23 16:01:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jaik7
my question is simple. how would an alliance from wh space and hisec overcome these obstacles and claim space independant from the big boys?
i think you two overlooked that requirement, or is it just too crazy for a non nullsec to think about taking space from another nullsec?
in an ideal world, we would be the ones renting out space. this thread is asking about the best way to get to that situation.
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ChYph3r
Multiplex Gaming
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Posted - 2011.03.23 16:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ******edNeuron
Truth be told, there is little incentive for a small or new alliance to attempt a move into non-NPC space.
this is very true.
Talking to all of you is like clapping with one hand! |
Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.24 05:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jaik7
Originally by: Jaik7
my question is simple. how would an alliance from wh space and hisec overcome these obstacles and claim space independant from the big boys?
i think you two overlooked that requirement, or is it just too crazy for a non nullsec to think about taking space from another nullsec?
Do you have at least 40ish supercarriers and titans active across all timezones? If not, you are going to have trouble competing with the big boys. And right now the only counter to supercaps is more supercaps.
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luvmehard
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Posted - 2011.03.24 08:23:00 -
[7]
Let me put it this way, darling:
Could Island annex parts of United States of America?
In theory, yes.
The most most probably outcome, however, would be some serious kicking of Islandic butts. As soon as the pentagon managed to use google to find Iceland, that is..
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Puppet Dictator
Pirate Moon
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Posted - 2011.03.24 16:36:00 -
[8]
Island, Iceland?
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
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Posted - 2011.03.24 16:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Machiavelli''s Nemesis on 24/03/2011 16:42:30
Originally by: Jaik7
my question is simple. how would an alliance from wh space and hisec overcome these obstacles and claim space independant from the big boys?
Bolded the problematic part for you.
In any case, either find a bit of crappy space in a corner that no one else wants and grovel to get NAPs with your neighbours or wait in NPC null building up numbers then take advantage of one of the periodic failcascades that happen to local superpowers.
Otherwise, give up any pretense of maintaining your independance and become a pet of one of the massive powers. You'll get used as a meatshield, derided on CAOD and then pwned by the first coalition that decides to beat up on your master alliance(s), but tbh that's just character building.
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Dale Sams
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Posted - 2011.03.24 16:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: luvmehard
Let me put it this way, darling:
Could Island annex parts of United States of America?
In theory, yes.
The most most probably outcome, however, would be some serious kicking of Islandic butts. As soon as the pentagon managed to use google to find Iceland, that is..
Up until 2006, the Pentagon had a nice fat airbase in Iceland, so it probably wouldn't take them very long.
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:15:00 -
[11]
so, what about the third idea? the one where we make their carebears miserable and use black ops fleets to make space undesirable while operating out of wormholes?
and is this game so unbalenced that a hisec corp could never defeat a nullsec corp for the simple reason of supercaps? whatever happened to "the universe is yours"?
can a overlarge fleet of capital ships ever defeat a fleet of supercapitals, or is it impossible to be independant without having had years to build up a thousand moms?
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jaik7
so, what about the third idea? the one where we make their carebears miserable and use black ops fleets to make space undesirable while operating out of wormholes?
you cannot control exit from your WH. So you cannot make real pressure to citizens of some system.
Even if you force bears to stay docked and cry an real owner of this place will come here and get you out.
Originally by: Jaik7
and is this game so unbalenced that a hisec corp could never defeat a nullsec corp for the simple reason of supercaps? whatever happened to "the universe is yours"?
can a overlarge fleet of capital ships ever defeat a fleet of supercapitals, or is it impossible to be independant without having had years to build up a thousand moms?
this is like in RL mate. Nothing new. People always make Rl **** from every sandbox game they play.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jaik7
so, what about the third idea? the one where we make their carebears miserable and use black ops fleets to make space undesirable while operating out of wormholes?
You'd have to do so across literally dozens of systems, but if you can pull it off, more power to you.
Quote:
and is this game so unbalenced that a hisec corp could never defeat a nullsec corp for the simple reason of supercaps?
Yes. If it's not the supercaps, it's the fact that the major blocks can literally max out fleets (256 pilots) without blinking and hellcamp a system for days on end. Given a few hours warning the big boys can max out a capital/supercapital fleet as well.
Quote:
whatever happened to "the universe is yours"?
The Sandbox happened. There is nothing stopping them from showing up at your doorstop and stomping you into the ground.
Quote:
can a overlarge fleet of capital ships ever defeat a fleet of supercapitals,
Has not yet been done. And when the big guys are throwing around hundreds of supercapitals, how big is your overlarge cap fleet going to have to be?
Quote:
or is it impossible to be independant without having had years to build up a thousand moms?
Pretty much this.
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Kindlin
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Posted - 2011.03.25 00:48:00 -
[14]
Test Alliance went from Highsec to lowsec to a 0.0 partner in less than 3 months and they now have a whole region to call home. 12 months ago they didn't exist.
No one is going to give you their space. After trying to get your own 0.0 system you may gain an appreciation of the current owners efforts.
I, for one, am glad the barriers to entry are high. Only the most willing and able get a spot for themselves to call home. Sandbox FTW.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.25 04:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Target Painter on 25/03/2011 04:35:07
Originally by: Kindlin
Test Alliance went from Highsec to lowsec to a 0.0 partner in less than 3 months and they now have a whole region to call home. 12 months ago they didn't exist.
TEST also had the advantage of a 20,000 pilot bloc behind them and the ability to call on the NC's massive supercapital blob when IT threatened a hotdrop.
The last truly independent entity in 0.0 to hold space was the Initiative, and they got booted back to NPC 0.0 so hard by CAAASEROL I think they partially failcascaded.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.25 08:28:00 -
[16]
Figure out a way to mass recruit that only yields quality players.
Start much smaller, and work your up way. Recruit, recruit recruit.. live in NPC 0.0 or as part of a renter alliance. Grow your wealth, grow your membership, blah blah.
The corps that major players in the powerblocs/Sov game didn't spring up out of the ground overnight.
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Ohhai Grandis
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Posted - 2011.03.25 16:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ohhai Grandis on 25/03/2011 16:17:04
Jaik...yes all those are possible.
Keep in mind, making friends is still important. If you can at least "get along" or enjoy fighting with your neighbors as a rivalry, vs. them wanting to completely remove your smaller alliance, you'll be better off in the long run. At least in terms of having dots on the map with your name on it, and the benefits that go with.
Yes, many powerhouse (and smaller) alliances started off in lowsec. Dead Terrorists was a good recent example. They grew, and grew, and eventually moved to 0.0 after recruiting and lowsec pirating for a while.
It all imploded on them, for various reasons, but that's just a recent example. It happens all the time. I had a small alliance that came from lowsec Faction Warfare for a short time that imploded due to leadership vs. real life issues with my whole "staff." however we wound up joining a cool buncha guys we used to be "rivals" with and we've grown from there.
*edit* stupid alts...poasting from Gavingoodrich 
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freshspree
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Posted - 2011.03.25 17:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Figure out a way to mass recruit that only yields quality players.
Start much smaller, and work your up way. Recruit, recruit recruit.. live in NPC 0.0 or as part of a renter alliance. Grow your wealth, grow your membership, blah blah.
The corps that major players in the powerblocs/Sov game didn't spring up out of the ground overnight.
Pretty much this. It's funny that every alliance wants to become one of the bigboyz overnight and it's also the same issue with supercaps and caps.
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Angelcast
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Posted - 2011.03.25 19:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jaik7
my question is simple. how would an alliance from wh space and hisec overcome these obstacles and claim space independant from the big boys?
quote]
the answer is simple if your not interested in joining one of the "big boys" 0.0 aint worth its just find a better WH to live in you'll make more iskies since every moon over an R8 is taken theres no point to living in 0.0 unless you have your own system/station that you can upgrade. once you drop an outpost or take sov people will notice and you will be shat on without supercap support.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.03.25 19:57:00 -
[20]
What is your goal in claiming this space? Are you looking for somewhere to rat? somewhere to build stuff? Somewhere to pewpew?
The only method to take space from the big powerblocs is persistence. If you keep forcing them into CTA's, and then denying them engagements whenever they bring to much, pretty soon the fleets they bring become manageable.
Many major powerblocs just rent out their space to glorified carebears. As such, continually harassment of the locals will typically clear out the space so you can do what you want with it. Unfortunately, current sov mechanics make it pretty hard to take their sov because they can destroy or conquer anything you anchor. This is why you should have a clear goal in mind when trying to claim space.
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