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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.04.02 12:59:00 - [2341] Edited by: Evelgrivion on 02/04/2011 13:00:04 Originally by: Skaarl scrapheap is a bunch of worthless whiners who are so intent on swelling their own epeen on their l33tness that they couldnt adapt to a new game and started crying and whining fot the "good old days" of empty 0.0 and 6 people per region. theres literally NO substance to what goes on over there who are you trying to kid. *looks at this thread The irony is overwhelming.
Rooli Pelaaja	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:10:00 - [2342] Edited by: Rooli Pelaaja on 02/04/2011 13:11:59 Originally by: Nemnapos With this you don't get more fights because no one has the ISK to fight. lol good sarcasm. Originally by: HSG Bomber this nerf will be the end of my income and the end of playing eve for me. lol, you really suck at the game
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:12:00 - [2343] Originally by: HSG Bomber Edited by: HSG Bomber on 02/04/2011 13:01:49 this nerf will be the end of my income and the end of playing eve for me. CCP if you need more money, nerf this stupid plex method and make it possible to buy isk for real money. if this is irony i apologize if not i feel bad about the future of mankind
Antigue	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:12:00 - [2344] Originally by: Evelgrivion EDIT: As a disclaimer, when I say "ISK Source," I mean a faucet that creates ISK that didn't exist before hand. To pre-empt arguments, Moon Minerals do not create ISK. Once again you miss the point. The problem is not generating isk. It is rather sinking isk. Say you buy a ship for 100 million, engage someone, your ship explodes. Is there an isk sink? No ofc not. Your 100 millions are still circling in the system. To refund your ship you need to rat and generate another 100 mill. Now there are 200 mill circling. The problem is that there are some very exclusive materials coming from very limited moons. Where do you think will you money end up? Exactly in the wallet of those who got the monopoly on these moons. Is there an ISK-sink? Yes by paying sov bills, taxes and NPC stuff. But this does not make up for the huge amount of isk they gain by their monopoly. That easily explains why the average player does not have billions over billions but the monopolists do have it. So what effect would it have to cut off the common players income? None! The monopolists create their own prices that are not at all dependant on demand and supply, simply because you need these materials to produce and you will not get them from anyone else. Well there is a little "but". But if lots of smaller alliances could afford and build supers aswell, their monopoly would be endanger to be taken over by new ambitious guys. I¦m sure SHC does not speak for any of the monopolists. Oh wait.... maybe not so sure. Better safe then sorry
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:18:00 - [2345] Originally by: Antigue Originally by: Evelgrivion EDIT: As a disclaimer, when I say "ISK Source," I mean a faucet that creates ISK that didn't exist before hand. To pre-empt arguments, Moon Minerals do not create ISK. Once again you miss the point. The problem is not generating isk. It is rather sinking isk. Say you buy a ship for 100 million, engage someone, your ship explodes. Is there an isk sink? No ofc not. Your 100 millions are still circling in the system. To refund your ship you need to rat and generate another 100 mill. Now there are 200 mill circling. The problem is that there are some very exclusive materials coming from very limited moons. Where do you think will you money end up? Exactly in the wallet of those who got the monopoly on these moons. Is there an ISK-sink? Yes by paying sov bills, taxes and NPC stuff. But this does not make up for the huge amount of isk they gain by their monopoly. That easily explains why the average player does not have billions over billions but the monopolists do have it. So what effect would it have to cut off the common players income? None! The monopolists create their own prices that are not at all dependant on demand and supply, simply because you need these materials to produce and you will not get them from anyone else. Well there is a little "but". But if lots of smaller alliances could afford and build supers aswell, their monopoly would be endanger to be taken over by new ambitious guys. I¦m sure SHC does not speak for any of the monopolists. Oh wait.... maybe not so sure. Better safe then sorry so now what CCP tries to achive that the moongoo pays for your ship not your ratting money if that can be done then goal reached i would say youre an coalition of BFF were is the problem when the coalution helps out the poor grunt with moon money ? or maybe youre not so good BFF then greed will kick in and war will start another goal archieved
Herr KaLeu	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:21:00 - [2346] It is realy nice too see how CCP is killing its own Game it is realy easy no money no pvp no pvp no players who pay too play. I realy hope that these changes will never come if they destroy the 0.0 and make half of it worthless a lot of people will leave the game and after all yes, if i have too work the whole week to have a ship for my pvp-weekend then i will be one of those who leave.
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:23:00 - [2347] Originally by: Herr KaLeu It is realy nice too see how CCP is killing its own Game it is realy easy no money no pvp no pvp no players who pay too play. I realy hope that these changes will never come if they destroy the 0.0 and make half of it worthless a lot of people will leave the game and after all yes, if i have too work the whole week to have a ship for my pvp-weekend then i will be one of those who leave. There was PVP when nobody could fly anything bigger than frigates and it took three weeks to save up for a cruiser. There was PVP when High-sec was no more secure than 0.0. There will always be PVP. To say there won't be PVP when you can't afford to replace a battleship within minutes of losing it is insanity.
Antigue	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:31:00 - [2348] Originally by: Lt Pizi Originally by: Antigue Originally by: Evelgrivion EDIT: As a disclaimer, when I say "ISK Source," I mean a faucet that creates ISK that didn't exist before hand. To pre-empt arguments, Moon Minerals do not create ISK. Once again you miss the point. The problem is not generating isk. It is rather sinking isk. Say you buy a ship for 100 million, engage someone, your ship explodes. Is there an isk sink? No ofc not. Your 100 millions are still circling in the system. To refund your ship you need to rat and generate another 100 mill. Now there are 200 mill circling. The problem is that there are some very exclusive materials coming from very limited moons. Where do you think will you money end up? Exactly in the wallet of those who got the monopoly on these moons. Is there an ISK-sink? Yes by paying sov bills, taxes and NPC stuff. But this does not make up for the huge amount of isk they gain by their monopoly. That easily explains why the average player does not have billions over billions but the monopolists do have it. So what effect would it have to cut off the common players income? None! The monopolists create their own prices that are not at all dependant on demand and supply, simply because you need these materials to produce and you will not get them from anyone else. Well there is a little "but". But if lots of smaller alliances could afford and build supers aswell, their monopoly would be endanger to be taken over by new ambitious guys. I¦m sure SHC does not speak for any of the monopolists. Oh wait.... maybe not so sure. Better safe then sorry so now what CCP tries to achive that the moongoo pays for your ship not your ratting money if that can be done then goal reached i would say youre an coalition of BFF were is the problem when the coalution helps out the poor grunt with moon money ? or maybe youre not so good BFF then greed will kick in and war will start another goal archieved Once again you miss the point dear sir. The moongoo didn¦t pay for the ships in the past so why should it pay for it in the future? Im not linked to BFF in any way pretty much the opposite. But Im indeed very concerned about the consequences. As I have described them earlier on I will not repeat that (funny enough you never felt like you would like to respond to them). So whatever happens here is to re-establish huge power blocks by annihilating the possibility of smaller alliances grow up in nullsec. Drive them back to highsec, make them bleed like hell for any loss and your monopoly will be safe. Well played meta gaming. But still the player base is shocked about these ridiculous plans that empty out nullsec again.
Evelgrivion Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:35:00 - [2349] Originally by: Antigue Once again you miss the point dear sir. The moongoo didn¦t pay for the ships in the past so why should it pay for it in the future? Im not linked to BFF in any way pretty much the opposite. But Im indeed very concerned about the consequences. As I have described them earlier on I will not repeat that (funny enough you never felt like you would like to respond to them). So whatever happens here is to re-establish huge power blocks by annihilating the possibility of smaller alliances grow up in nullsec. Drive them back to highsec, make them bleed like hell for any loss and your monopoly will be safe. Well played meta gaming. But still the player base is shocked about these ridiculous plans that empty out nullsec again. No smaller entity gets into 0.0 without being completely dependent on having the right blues list under the current system, due to the power projection afforded by capitals and super capitals. Changing income doesn't make life easier or more difficult for smaller alliances in any notable way over how it affects bigger entities. The only thing that will truly give small alliances a chance to shine is to force alliances to keep the bulk of their big boys (super carriers and titans) at home, or to make them useless. That, and make it so going out to destroy them in a more conventional manner isn't a desirable or affordable option either. All in all, I'd say the status quo will stay about the same, but minus hundreds of renter blues who only came to 0.0 to get fat off of sanctums.
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:40:00 - [2350] Edited by: Lt Pizi on 02/04/2011 13:40:39 The moongoo didn¦t pay for the ships in the past so why should it pay for it in the future? ---------------------------- you have no data on this so we will see have fun sitting in your SC and titan without support ... some learned it already the hard way so if you want to keep your everage Joe comming in his sub cap you need to help him out this bad ? hell no all you doomsayers need to remember ... it worked before so why should it fail now

Antigue	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:52:00 - [2351] Originally by: Evelgrivion No smaller entity gets into 0.0 without being completely dependent on having the right blues list under the current system, due to the power projection afforded by capitals and super capitals. Confirmed but this will become even worse with this patch. Originally by: Evelgrivion Changing income doesn't make life easier or more difficult for smaller alliances in any notable way over how it affects bigger entities. I assume having some more ships they can burn to ashes will make a vast difference. So not confirmed at all. Originally by: Evelgrivion The only thing that will truly give small alliances a chance to shine is to force alliances to keep the bulk of their big boys (super carriers and titans) at home, or to make them useless. That, and make it so going out to destroy them in a more conventional manner isn't a desirable or affordable option either. Not confirmed. The only thing that give small alliances a chance to shine is by having lots of succesful roams. Therefor you need targets and therefor you need regular training. Speaking of training you need to be able to resupply with ships in a decent amount of time. Originally by: Evelgrivion All in all, I'd say the status quo will stay about the same, but minus hundreds of renter blues who only came to 0.0 to get fat off of sanctums. You better read QEN. It is a wil fantasy that "renters get fat off sanctums". In reality it pays of their costs for what they like to do: Let ships explode. It will also have tremendous effects on nullsec pew pews when they will have troubles finding targets. The hundreds of renters that are driven back to empire still enjoy pew pew but they will be ****ed and this will lead to ransoming highsec corps to ashes because they are forced to live where they don¦t want to live and they will not run like 40 jumps through empty nullsec for no fight. So you will pick up a target next door. And what is that for? Only to serve the big alliances. There are tons of decent ideas how to create drama in nullsec but to empty out the lands was the worst move one could ever think about.
Geralden	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:05:00 - [2352] Originally by: Lt Pizi Edited by: Lt Pizi on 02/04/2011 13:40:39 The moongoo didn¦t pay for the ships in the past so why should it pay for it in the future? ---------------------------- you have no data on this so we will see have fun sitting in your SC and titan without support ... some learned it already the hard way so if you want to keep your everage Joe comming in his sub cap you need to help him out this bad ? hell no all you doomsayers need to remember ... it worked before so why should it fail now Because. Before you had 2 pilots at MAX pr 0.0 system, now there's 40 to 50. Before you had 5 to 10 pilots dooing plexing in a region - now you have 150. Before you had icebelts as a valid income - macro bots destroyed that income Before you had mining as a valid way of making isk. See above. Before you didnt have to pay upkeep to CONCORD. Now, you pay 1+ Bill pr system for paying an upkeep, for upgrades you payed alot for. If you could pull down your outposts, and your system upgrades, it wouldnt matter as much. But if you DONT pay the INSANE upkeep costs for crappy systems, you will make outposts vounrable for a flip. So, basicly, if you dropped a station, you are chained down to pay for that outpost system, even if it's compleatly worthless after this "update"
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:19:00 - [2353] Before there wasnt PI before there wasnt WH minerals are at an long time high, noc 10 times it was before they nerfed the mineral inflow from the DR now its time for the rest will it be the end of the changes no its a long way and it creates many tears but imo its for the better of the economy and the game
Hanniball King	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:23:00 - [2354] One main reason i hear too say its F... Bull... too make thease canges is "too have fun in pvp u need ships for ships u need money and its stupid too grind isk in lv4 missis in highsec and when the enemy is on his way too your space u should hope u have a clonejump available..." If some people bring the arguments in the past there has been no sovupgrades and no permaannos i must say yes, but if you have the same stuf too pay(sovbills for example) with no income from it i can only say wtf? If your Boss tells u from now on u will get the payment as in 1960 that would mean 25-35% of the payment u have got now u wont be happy or would u?
Geralden	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:32:00 - [2355] Try to respond the the post I made. Not just ONE of the arguments. Try respond to the station situation, the number of people in local... Minerals at an alltime high? Do you play the same EVE as i do? PI... no. Just, no. I tried it for 6 weeks, and my hands/wrists are still recovering. The inteface is worse than most of my games made for the c64 back in 1984. Stations - again, let's be able to pull them down, then maybe we can save some billions each month, by NOT paying upkeep. Problem is, you CANT.
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 14:53:00 - [2356] Originally by: Geralden Try to respond the the post I made. Not just ONE of the arguments. Try respond to the station situation, the number of people in local... Minerals at an alltime high? Do you play the same EVE as i do? PI... no. Just, no. I tried it for 6 weeks, and my hands/wrists are still recovering. The inteface is worse than most of my games made for the c64 back in 1984. Stations - again, let's be able to pull them down, then maybe we can save some billions each month, by NOT paying upkeep. Problem is, you CANT. try PI again .. it has improved much , it is far from a clickfest now then use your frekkin station to base of todo WH when we were in fountain there were like 10 WH¦s in the constelation these can support alot of players there was alot of money to be made in 00 before sanctums and there still is after the patch if you cant see it i cannot help you
Jena Lindser	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:02:00 - [2357] Although I agree this new anom change is a terrible idea, instead of making a list of why its stupid like the other 79 pages of replies in this thread, I will offer some solutions. CCP can add an anti AFK cloaker system wide pulse decloaking pos mod. This stops afk cloakers from sitting in the - with the change - only good system for ratting in an entire region. CCP can allow alliances to pull down stations and refund 3/4's of the cost. This allows 0.0 groups to relocate to better areas with the isk they need to attack but which they cant get anymore in their bad nullsec, AND attackers can invade simply to sell stations off for lol's. Instead of nerfing anoms to cut profit, CCP can make all super carriers and titans always remain in space, even if their pilot logs off. People can then invade just to attack a titan-super pos,and because they have the password, bump the titan-super out, and steal it or blow it up. Massive isk sink in lost titans-supers + defense fleet losses. CCP can add a new system upgrade that lowers the truesec of a system. It can be super expensive, 5+ billion for every -.1. Short term thats a huge isk sink. To prevent all 0.0 from being -1.0 truesec, losing sov will reset the true sec to its base state. Alliances can now invade just to bump the -1.0 truesec system down to -.2 for a loss of 40 billion in upgrades. CCP can rework the truesec of regions, making all constellations have at least 1 system that has potential for 2 sanctums. CCP can make wormhole inhibitors and wormhole stabilizers that cost billions in fuel to run. Alliance deploys one stabilizer in 0.0 on a good class 6 wormhole, making it perma open. Alliance then deploys wormhole inhibitors in class 6 to prevent any new wormholes from opening, essentially making a back door system under alliance control for isk making. CCP can rework moon goo, a system tha'ts very old, by adding moon goo to moons that currently have nothing in them, not even hydrocarbons, that produce goods that sell to NPC buyers in highsec, but which have no value in ship construction - aka blue glass marbles loved by caldari children across the galaxy. CCP can rework asteroid belt ratting to have a much faster respawn, and add more belts to systems. 10+ belts in each system is equilvant to a sanctum, but also much more dangerous to farm as people can warp right to you without scanning you out. Those are just a few things that can change to make this anom change not become the worst idea CCP ever had. If anyone can think of something else that would make this change - which WILL happen no matter what anyone says - be not so bad, then please post that suggestion here instead of simply calling CCP idiots, as they WONT listen or care.
Skaarl	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:08:00 - [2358] Originally by: Lt Pizi Before there wasnt PI before there wasnt WH minerals are at an long time high, noc 10 times it was before they nerfed the mineral inflow from the DR now its time for the rest will it be the end of the changes no its a long way and it creates many tears but imo its for the better of the economy and the game this triples the amount of droneland mineral inflow not nerfs it. they will have 6 carrier++ bots in sanctums all day every day in a good portion of their systems. and once again, CCP greyscales conclusions and models have nothing to do with the economy. they are to increase 0.0 conflict (read allow pirates and griefers who couldnt adapt to dominion to become relevant again.) the issue is there is no real need for increasing the amount of conflict. as you said, minerals are at an all time high, which means the demand for those minerals is at a high. why would that be? because theres a ton of fights going on out in null with billions and billions lost daily. this change will not in anyway increase the amount of conflict, it will reduce it. it will allow the small groups of griefers who never made friends and have always just been asshats to suddenly find themselves relevant and will revert 0.0 back to pre-dominion populations. the probelm is i dont see most of those players moving back to high sec. i see them moving on from CCP games as customers.
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:08:00 - [2359] you need to accept the fact that the game is currently moving away from npc injected isk so as sooner you accept this and look for alternative ways to generate income , the more fun you will have in the future
UJust Lost TheGAME	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:10:00 - [2360] This pretty much sums it all up lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc In unrelated news, CCP greyscale has been chosen for fanfest 2012's chess boxing event. \O/

Th3bl4ckr4bbit	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:12:00 - [2361] Edited by: Th3bl4ckr4bbit on 02/04/2011 15:14:12 Originally by: Jena Lindser Although I agree this new anom change is a terrible idea, instead of making a list of why its stupid like the other 79 pages of replies in this thread, I will offer some solutions. CCP can add an anti AFK cloaker system wide pulse decloaking pos mod. This stops afk cloakers from sitting in the - with the change - only good system for ratting in an entire region. CCP can allow alliances to pull down stations and refund 3/4's of the cost. This allows 0.0 groups to relocate to better areas with the isk they need to attack but which they cant get anymore in their bad nullsec, AND attackers can invade simply to sell stations off for lol's. Instead of nerfing anoms to cut profit, CCP can make all super carriers and titans always remain in space, even if their pilot logs off. People can then invade just to attack a titan-super pos,and because they have the password, bump the titan-super out, and steal it or blow it up. Massive isk sink in lost titans-supers + defense fleet losses. CCP can add a new system upgrade that lowers the truesec of a system. It can be super expensive, 5+ billion for every -.1. Short term thats a huge isk sink. To prevent all 0.0 from being -1.0 truesec, losing sov will reset the true sec to its base state. Alliances can now invade just to bump the -1.0 truesec system down to -.2 for a loss of 40 billion in upgrades. CCP can rework the truesec of regions, making all constellations have at least 1 system that has potential for 2 sanctums. CCP can make wormhole inhibitors and wormhole stabilizers that cost billions in fuel to run. Alliance deploys one stabilizer in 0.0 on a good class 6 wormhole, making it perma open. Alliance then deploys wormhole inhibitors in class 6 to prevent any new wormholes from opening, essentially making a back door system under alliance control for isk making. CCP can rework moon goo, a system tha'ts very old, by adding moon goo to moons that currently have nothing in them, not even hydrocarbons, that produce goods that sell to NPC buyers in highsec, but which have no value in ship construction - aka blue glass marbles loved by caldari children across the galaxy. CCP can rework asteroid belt ratting to have a much faster respawn, and add more belts to systems. 10+ belts in each system is equilvant to a sanctum, but also much more dangerous to farm as people can warp right to you without scanning you out. Those are just a few things that can change to make this anom change not become the worst idea CCP ever had. If anyone can think of something else that would make this change - which WILL happen no matter what anyone says - be not so bad, then please post that suggestion here instead of simply calling CCP idiots, as they WONT listen or care. You just forgot a point : CCP wants 0.0 players to earn less isk.
Jena Lindser	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:16:00 - [2362] You didnt watch the fanfest coverage or attend did you? CCP people said they need isk sinks. Its not that people have too much isk, its that the isk doesnt go away fast enough. Most of my ideas either outright cost isk to maintain, or ramp up massive pvp and huge losses in terms of isk. Anom change hurts Simple Joe's bottom line. I suggest shifting the burden off of Simple Joe and onto Super Alliance.
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:18:00 - [2363] Originally by: UJust Lost TheGAME In unrelated news, CCP greyscale has been chosen for fanfest 2012's chess boxing event. \O/ HAHAHA will he be BRAIN (my choice) or PAIN (wich will also fit) ?
Antigue	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:24:00 - [2364] Originally by: UJust Lost TheGAME This pretty much sums it all up lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc THIS!
Nemnapos	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:38:00 - [2365] Originally by: Jena Lindser CCP people said they need isk sinks. Its not that people have too much isk, its that the isk doesnt go away fast enough. Thats ok but this is not an reason to kidding alls player that life in the -0.00 up to -0.20 space AND buff the -1.0 space.
Skaarl	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:41:00 - [2366] Originally by: UJust Lost TheGAME This pretty much sums it all up lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc In unrelated news, CCP greyscale has been chosen for fanfest 2012's chess boxing event. \O/ i approve this message.
Dodgy Past Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:49:00 - [2367] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 02/04/2011 15:50:50 Originally by: Herr KaLeu It is realy nice too see how CCP is killing its own Game it is realy easy no money no pvp no pvp no players who pay too play. I realy hope that these changes will never come if they destroy the 0.0 and make half of it worthless a lot of people will leave the game and after all yes, if i have too work the whole week to have a ship for my pvp-weekend then i will be one of those who leave. If you wanted to PvP you'd find the isk to pay for it, you just want an excuse not to PvP. I'd imagine a huge percentage of PvP'ers never run anoms, yet manage to fly whatever they want whenever they want rather than the cheapest boat they can get away with. Couple of weekends ago I lost 4 Abaddons in 3 days, yet somehow managed to turn a profit without ever killing a rat.
Cpt Darkstar	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:51:00 - [2368] lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc it say¦s all
Skaarl	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:52:00 - [2369] Originally by: Evelgrivion Originally by: Herr KaLeu It is realy nice too see how CCP is killing its own Game it is realy easy no money no pvp no pvp no players who pay too play. I realy hope that these changes will never come if they destroy the 0.0 and make half of it worthless a lot of people will leave the game and after all yes, if i have too work the whole week to have a ship for my pvp-weekend then i will be one of those who leave. There was PVP when nobody could fly anything bigger than frigates and it took three weeks to save up for a cruiser. There was PVP when High-sec was no more secure than 0.0. There will always be PVP. To say there won't be PVP when you can't afford to replace a battleship within minutes of losing it is insanity. problem is all the old school douche bags with their ill gotten t2 bpos complaining cause now everyone can afford to put the same ships on the field they can. its not fair!
Skaarl	Posted - 2011.04.02 15:55:00 - [2370] i think everyone should open up a petition with CCP concerning these changes and just link them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc



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