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Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:16:00 - [1] Hmm So ive ben reading these threads and its making me laugh. The PvP players who have long held sway over how Empire is run. Now it happens to you, you don't like it very much when PvE players mess with your space. Now imagine how we feel when you mess with ours As far as im concerned, the quicker Null Sec becomes dynamic and allows people to gain footholds in not so good plex space as the majority of corps in empire would be happy just with 0.0 ores. You say fire Greyscale for making sure that 0.0 becomes more conflicted and forces pvp which will drive market prices up and generally boost the economy. I saw promote the fella. So laid bare here - For 8 years PvP players have nerfed our high sec belts, made low sec more dangerous and have had our missions nerfed like hell and all the sweets and candy moved to 0.0. Now it looks like you will get the nerf and you calling for a man to be fired and removed from his job - Pathetic. It's about time you where shown the sharp end of the stick. Bring on the changes, im gonna love it when your huge blue power blocks fail and u start fighting like buggery. Will drive my industry straight up Much love x
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:20:00 - [2] This thread is quite likely to get locked now that the original has been, especially as yours contains no new insights, news or questions.
Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:24:00 - [3] I dont care if its locked It's about time the PvP players, the ego maniacs who run the CSM where shown that null sec is not your playground and you need to fight for what you want and keep fighting instead of +10 all alliances near u.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:26:00 - [4] The problem people who've never been to 0.0 (CCP included) don't see is that none of this would happen. No alliance would drop sov just because the anoms in the system are crap. And definitely nobody would let you take a system just because it's of worse quality. This change would do nothing to help new alliances get to 0.0, and nothing to make combat any more exciting or dynamic. On the other hand, nerfing the income stream of common 0.0 residents would mean people would have to grind NPCs more to replace lost ships, and have less time left for PvP. This would make combat rarer and more boring as people would be less willing to risk ships they can't easily replace. ISK making might be the goal in empire. Mission runners might clump together around good agents. However in 0.0, ISK is just a tool you need to buy new ships to fight in. Nobody would go out and fight just to get better rats - why? As long as we're making enough money to keep up with ship losses, we can find our own reasons to fight. --- Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:29:00 - [5] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 27/03/2011 11:30:41 I honestly have no idea what's going on... What I get for ignoring the Fanfest stream I guess. All I know is that in EVE nothing ever really changes, and whatever it is your on about it's probably no going to have the effect that your hoping it will. Greyscale included. Quote: However in 0.0, ISK is just a tool you need to buy new ships to fight in. Nobody would go out and fight just to get better rats - why? As long as we're making enough money to keep up with ship losses, we can find our own reasons to fight This guy however is so full of crap I don't even know where to begin
yumike	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Katana Kitty Bring on the changes, im gonna love it when your huge blue power blocks fail and u start fighting like buggery. Will drive my industry straight up That's the issue. They won't. CCP's avoiding the real problem. Changes like these aren't whined about because it's gonna hurt some people (Okay, sometimes thats their reason for whining.) But the majority of the QQ is because CCP is doing their classic dance around the real issue.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Katana Kitty I dont care if its locked It's about time the PvP players, the ego maniacs who run the CSM where shown that null sec is not your playground and you need to fight for what you want and keep fighting instead of +10 all alliances near u. If you had read the original "fire Greyscale" thread, you would see that I was saying precisely that.
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:30:00 - [8] Sorry to spoil your gloat, but simple logic shows you are incorrect. Major Powerblocs control the best moons, and if this change goes through the best ratting space as well. This will enable them to attract more and better pilots, and equip them to a higher standard as well as provide an advantage in wars of attrition. Small/new alliances may take a foothold in "wasteland" space but cannot shift the established powerblocs as the poorer space will not support as many pilots. Those pilots will not be as well equipped, and they will not have as much of a resource buffer to fight an attrition war. Result: Major Powerblocs become more entrenched. This change is a Buff to major powerblocs and a nerf to any who might challenge them. I'm a noob living in Highsec and it seems quite obvious to me. On the other hand, I don't agree that Greyscale should be axed, I'm not that emotionally involved in the game. Don't pretend however that your support for his position on this is anything other than bitterness and jealousy. Fly Safe :)
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:33:00 - [9] @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right?
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:38:00 - [10] Wasn't the main reason behind the sov infrastructure upgrades to bring new players to 0.0? You know, "you don't have to fight a huge alliance for the best systems, you can just lay low in some empty system and upgrade it to gain as much benefit from it"? --- Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Ofc he doesn't, he's like every other idiot who will reply to this thread and comment on my gloat. There ignorant. He doesn't realise that by pushing the fights up in 0.0 and pushing conflict up, the economy of the game will rise rapidly and will stabilize. He also doesnt realise that alliances will allow more people into 0.0 to hold what they call the *** space* because most empire alliances would be happy with a belt with jaspet in it. Its pure ignorance
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Of course I do, that doesn't change my point in the slightest. Who will have the best ratting space for their macro's? Who will have the most lucrative 'roids for their macros? I'm sure there are ISK-Buyers out there, but buying even a Trillion ISK is a drop in the bucket compared to how much 100 or 1000 ratting bots can churn out, and they are about to get a huge buff to that capacity. All that this change achieves is to further entrench the political landscape out there. As I said, elementary logic shows that quite clearly.
Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Of course I do, that doesn't change my point in the slightest. Who will have the best ratting space for their macro's? Who will have the most lucrative 'roids for their macros? I'm sure there are ISK-Buyers out there, but buying even a Trillion ISK is a drop in the bucket compared to how much 100 or 1000 ratting bots can churn out, and they are about to get a huge buff to that capacity. All that this change achieves is to further entrench the political landscape out there. As I said, elementary logic shows that quite clearly. No your ignorance will show that quite clearly. I love how u imbah pvpers are to stupid and ignorant to understand what this patch will do to your space. Bring on the biggest null sec wars ever to hit eve, players are driven by greed, nerf = good god how many wars just got decced...
yumike	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:43:00 - [14] Edited by: yumike on 27/03/2011 11:46:17 Originally by: Katana Kitty Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Ofc he doesn't, he's like every other idiot who will reply to this thread and comment on my gloat. There ignorant. He doesn't realise that by pushing the fights up in 0.0 and pushing conflict up, the economy of the game will rise rapidly and will stabilize. He also doesnt realise that alliances will allow more people into 0.0 to hold what they call the *** space* because most empire alliances would be happy with a belt with jaspet in it. Its pure ignorance Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I really really do, Maybe i'm just not as optimistic anymore. It's highly unlikely that changing the anoms will make a teeny bit of difference. The only thing it will do really is make it a bit more dangerous to rat in your carrier. edit:: OP, can you think of a single hypothetical that would really make a blue think about revoking blue just because their opponent has a lower truesec system nearby? Honestly? All the bigger/stronger alliances will move in to them (or already have begun) and hold onto them. The only time they are likely to ever switch hands is when someone failscades and someone else moves in and gives it to a pet.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Of course I do, that doesn't change my point in the slightest. Who will have the best ratting space for their macro's? Who will have the most lucrative 'roids for their macros? I'm sure there are ISK-Buyers out there, but buying even a Trillion ISK is a drop in the bucket compared to how much 100 or 1000 ratting bots can churn out, and they are about to get a huge buff to that capacity. All that this change achieves is to further entrench the political landscape out there. As I said, elementary logic shows that quite clearly. He is correct here. Kitty, nothing changes in Null Sec. EVER. This thread is now about ranting.
Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Of course I do, that doesn't change my point in the slightest. Who will have the best ratting space for their macro's? Who will have the most lucrative 'roids for their macros? I'm sure there are ISK-Buyers out there, but buying even a Trillion ISK is a drop in the bucket compared to how much 100 or 1000 ratting bots can churn out, and they are about to get a huge buff to that capacity. All that this change achieves is to further entrench the political landscape out there. As I said, elementary logic shows that quite clearly. He is correct here. Kitty, nothing changes in Null Sec. EVER. This thread is now about ranting. I disagree. It will change 0.0. Power blocks will fight with other power blocks. **** areas of space will be given to enw empire alliances who could grow into massive power blocks I think it will change 0.0. For the better
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Katana Kitty Ofc he doesn't, he's like every other idiot who will reply to this thread and comment on my gloat. There ignorant. He doesn't realise that by pushing the fights up in 0.0 and pushing conflict up, the economy of the game will rise rapidly and will stabilize. He also doesnt realise that alliances will allow more people into 0.0 to hold what they call the *** space* because most empire alliances would be happy with a belt with jaspet in it. Its pure ignorance Please, demonstrate for the sake of my ignorance how this change will "push the fights up" in null. After all, if an Empire Alliance would "be happy with a belt with Jaspet" what incentive do they have to try and change the Status Quo? Even if they did want to shake things up, where are they going to get the resources to attract the pilots and ships needed? And yes, your post has gloat written all over it, it couldn't be clearer than if you had posted "neener neener neener"
Terminal Entry New Fnord Industries	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash The problem people who've never been to 0.0 (CCP included)... Wow, really? CCP have NEVER been to 0.0! Originally by: CCP kieron If you feel we as an entity are corrupt and abhorrent, we bid you good luck in finding a game and company that suits your interests.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash The problem people who've never been to 0.0 (CCP included) don't see is that none of this would happen. No alliance would drop sov just because the anoms in the system are crap. And definitely nobody would let you take a system just because it's of worse quality. This change would do nothing to help new alliances get to 0.0, and nothing to make combat any more exciting or dynamic. On the other hand, nerfing the income stream of common 0.0 residents would mean people would have to grind NPCs more to replace lost ships, and have less time left for PvP. This would make combat rarer and more boring as people would be less willing to risk ships they can't easily replace. ISK making might be the goal in empire. Mission runners might clump together around good agents. However in 0.0, ISK is just a tool you need to buy new ships to fight in. Nobody would go out and fight just to get better rats - why? As long as we're making enough money to keep up with ship losses, we can find our own reasons to fight. The biggest problem in 0.0 is and always has been the sheer ignorance and greed of the ruling elite. It has been this way since the early days of BoB and until there is some radical shift in either the mechanics or political landscape, we will not see any changes at all. By introducing these changes CCP are trying to tip the balance, and it is easy to see why. You cannot seriously expect low-sec and high-sec dwellers to believe that living in 0.0 isn't all about the isk. I will accept that for you, living in 0.0 is all about the fighting, and that isk is as you say just "a tool" to enable you to do that. But far too much has been written and talked about with regard the largest of the 0.0 alliances for you to be able to say with a straight face that they are in 0.0 for the fighting. They are there for the isk and it is THAT for which they fight. One clear piece of evidence to support this idea was the introduction of structures that increase certain "Bonuses" in 0.0 space that would eventually yield more ISK. You all jumped around for joy when they were introduced, and got angry when they didn't work. Now it seems that some of these isk faucets are to be turned off you all get angry again. But "honest guv'nor its cos we likes to fight", is that what you want us to believe? It should have become clear by now that some of us don't, and that these changes are considered by many to be much needed.
Katana Kitty Caldari Mu Trade and Finance Hegemony The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Katana Kitty Ofc he doesn't, he's like every other idiot who will reply to this thread and comment on my gloat. There ignorant. He doesn't realise that by pushing the fights up in 0.0 and pushing conflict up, the economy of the game will rise rapidly and will stabilize. He also doesnt realise that alliances will allow more people into 0.0 to hold what they call the *** space* because most empire alliances would be happy with a belt with jaspet in it. Its pure ignorance Please, demonstrate for the sake of my ignorance how this change will "push the fights up" in null. After all, if an Empire Alliance would "be happy with a belt with Jaspet" what incentive do they have to try and change the Status Quo? Even if they did want to shake things up, where are they going to get the resources to attract the pilots and ships needed? And yes, your post has gloat written all over it, it couldn't be clearer than if you had posted "neener neener neener" Okay, more and more systems become contested over for plexes, sanctums, alliance allies break down - boom war decs, boom region instablity. Pushing the fight up and this will happen all over eve null sec 2. rubbish space as you call it. I know friends who are in empire who dont care about sanctums and plxes, they would be happy to mine in 0.0 rubbish systems and make a fortune that way. 3. If u clearly dont get the actual real time change this patch will have, you clearly dont understand human behaviour and u clearly dont understand eve.
Chanakin Destrago	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Katana Kitty Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Eternum Praetorian @ Sahmul You do realize that the major powerbocks are powerful because of RMT? RIght? You do KNOW that right? Of course I do, that doesn't change my point in the slightest. Who will have the best ratting space for their macro's? Who will have the most lucrative 'roids for their macros? I'm sure there are ISK-Buyers out there, but buying even a Trillion ISK is a drop in the bucket compared to how much 100 or 1000 ratting bots can churn out, and they are about to get a huge buff to that capacity. All that this change achieves is to further entrench the political landscape out there. As I said, elementary logic shows that quite clearly. No your ignorance will show that quite clearly. I love how u imbah pvpers are to stupid and ignorant to understand what this patch will do to your space. Bring on the biggest null sec wars ever to hit eve, players are driven by greed, nerf = good god how many wars just got decced... Name one sov war in the history of eve that was motivated primarily bu ratting and not...oh I dont know...how about moons? Tech is the issue...not ratting
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:54:00 - [22] Thread wont get locked as Obsidian Legion are HUGE CCP fanboi's Saying that I agree with everything the OP said, good changes it is a start, major NAP trains shouldnt be too worried, after all BFF, FRIENDS STICK TOGETHER even if they are poor hahahaha . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.27 11:54:00 - [23] Confirming that null sec dwellers are the most vocal whiners, the most dedicated carebears and the most flamboyant drama queens in eve.
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Katana Kitty Okay, more and more systems become contested over for plexes, sanctums, alliance allies break down - boom war decs, boom region instablity. Pushing the fight up and this will happen all over eve null sec Really? Why? Because you say so? Historically people haven't fought for ratting space, pre or post Dominion, why would they start now? You are also ignoring the fact that the Major Blocs already control this space and therefore have no need to go conquer it. If anyone wants to shift them out they will need Pilots and Ships, where are they going to come from? Quote: 2. rubbish space as you call it. I know friends who are in empire who dont care about sanctums and plxes, they would be happy to mine in 0.0 rubbish systems and make a fortune that way. I guess these guys aren't going to be the ones to "push the fight" then are they? If you'd actually read my post you would also have seen that I have never called it "Rubbish Space" either. Regardless, if this change goes through it will not support as many pilots, making these "poor space" alliances that much less likely to be able to effect change. Quote: 3. If u clearly dont get the actual real time change this patch will have, you clearly dont understand human behaviour and u clearly dont understand eve. The only part of this point that made any sense was the ad hominem.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Katana Kitty Originally by: Sahmul Originally by: Katana Kitty Ofc he doesn't, he's like every other idiot who will reply to this thread and comment on my gloat. There ignorant. He doesn't realise that by pushing the fights up in 0.0 and pushing conflict up, the economy of the game will rise rapidly and will stabilize. He also doesnt realise that alliances will allow more people into 0.0 to hold what they call the *** space* because most empire alliances would be happy with a belt with jaspet in it. Its pure ignorance Please, demonstrate for the sake of my ignorance how this change will "push the fights up" in null. After all, if an Empire Alliance would "be happy with a belt with Jaspet" what incentive do they have to try and change the Status Quo? Even if they did want to shake things up, where are they going to get the resources to attract the pilots and ships needed? And yes, your post has gloat written all over it, it couldn't be clearer than if you had posted "neener neener neener" Okay, more and more systems become contested over for plexes, sanctums, alliance allies break down - boom war decs, boom region instablity. Pushing the fight up and this will happen all over eve null sec 2. rubbish space as you call it. I know friends who are in empire who dont care about sanctums and plxes, they would be happy to mine in 0.0 rubbish systems and make a fortune that way. 3. If u clearly dont get the actual real time change this patch will have, you clearly dont understand human behaviour and u clearly dont understand eve. 1. Oh the fighting will happen, but it won't last, since the bite is mostly felt on a personal wallet level. Throwing a rock in the water doesn't mean you've created a chaotic and stormy sea. It's just mean you made some ripples. 2. So why aren't they in 0.0 now? Turning space to rubbish doesn't mean it suddenly became a safe place that the big boys will ignore if you settle in it. It just means fewer people than currently can actually make a living there and there are less reasons to upgrade systems. Any settlers will have to deal with all the same crap as current residents, but they just gain fewer resources from the trouble. That is it. If your friends don't have the ability to live in 0.0 now, they aren't going to gain it from this change. 3. Clearly you weren't able to explain it either, so in all likelyhood you don't understand it any better and are just trying to bluff your way out of revealing it.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:12:00 - [26] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 27/03/2011 12:12:10 Originally by: Abdiel Kavash However in 0.0, ISK is just a tool you need to buy new ships to fight in. Well duhh, CCP are making it so the alliance has to cover wars NOT the player, its a very smart change. Atm every player does his own **, which isnt how 0.0 should work, they then show up to ops die for their masters and spend out of their own wallet to fight for their masters and this cycle continues until they quit. Why is this bad? Well it wasnt at first but then moon goo wasnt getting used, players were self-sufficient to fight their MASTERS war and thanks to botting and easy RISK FREE ISK supercaps got pooped out like crazy and really 0.0 was all about numbers. So what happens after these changes? Players will question whether they want to risk losing ISK for their masters agenda, alliances will have to have to use the moon goo they make to help members and killing a supercap will mean something. It also means renting space wont be limited to "so where will I be a meat shield", space wont be equal so alliance leaders will have to choose which space to give to who, after all pets will want good space and if a coalition has too many pets to provide for there is going to be drama. Pets / renters make up for numbers in conflicts too, atm you can please them with any space, however after these changes the space better be good, no one wants to be in ty space. Rich alliances get richer, poor get poorer Moon goo will provide for alliances, BUT will now be used to fund losses, more so than they have atm, there will be more interaction and involvement with players. Current alliances will get richer but now invading them will affect their moon goo income and not other players, after all if DRF are attacking the NC, why should players suffer losses, since its the coalition thats at war. So its back to lvl 4 mission alts No, you know theres a ** load of way to make ISK in 0.0, ratting and sanctums arent the only way, not only that your losses SHOULD be covered by the alliance, moon goo funds them, they should fund you, it makes no sense why you should fund yourself to fight their war. If you choose to lvl 4s to make up for loss then you are an idiot TLDR- Epic changes, bring it, bring it, bring it!! . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Chanakin Destrago	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:16:00 - [27] You literally just made me facepalm with how epically stupid the entirety of your post was. Also waiting onan answer to my prior question.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Kalle Demos Say What Yo?? All you just said was more RMT
Chanakin Destrago	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Kalle Demos Say What Yo?? All you just said was more RMT Someone here doesn't know what rmt actually is.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.27 12:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Chanakin Destrago Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Kalle Demos Say What Yo?? All you just said was more RMT Someone here doesn't know what rmt actually is. You. Evidently. Yo.

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