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Is Eve adopting GAMEGUARD?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.27 20:38:00 - [1] Edited by: Miilla on 27/03/2011 20:38:20 Is the new security drive going to be using GameGuard nProtect? GameGuard GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, Keylogs your keyboard input, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface. In short, it is a rootkit.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.03.27 20:49:00 - [2] You... ...umm... ...err... ...no, not worth it. Bye. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Cairn Bolete	Posted - 2011.03.27 20:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Akita T You... ...umm... ...err... ...no, not worth it. Bye. That took a lot of self restraint. Congratulations! You have reached Level Two.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.27 20:57:00 - [4] I will certainly be uninstalling eve if they do. I simply refuse to install any software (reguardless of who makes it or its purpose is) if it deliberatly circumvents my OS's built in security features. Sony has done this before, and installed rootkits to protect against music piracy. Shortly after that, its own rootkit was exploited by other hackers. Lets not forget how many cheats currently exist for all of the games nProtect currently "protects". This is just another piece of software that brings more ineffective protection in exchange for lessened client side security.
me me2	Posted - 2011.03.27 20:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Terminal Insanity I will certainly be uninstalling eve if they do. I simply refuse to install any software (reguardless of who makes it or its purpose is) if it deliberatly circumvents my OS's built in security features. Sony has done this before, and installed rootkits to protect against music piracy. Shortly after that, its own rootkit was exploited by other hackers. Lets not forget how many cheats currently exist for all of the games nProtect currently "protects". This is just another piece of software that brings more ineffective protection in exchange for lessened client side security. And given the patch history of CCP you would prefer a home grown application hacked up in a few months?
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:18:00 - [6] Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 27/03/2011 21:18:55 Originally by: me me2 Originally by: Terminal Insanity I will certainly be uninstalling eve if they do. I simply refuse to install any software (reguardless of who makes it or its purpose is) if it deliberatly circumvents my OS's built in security features. Sony has done this before, and installed rootkits to protect against music piracy. Shortly after that, its own rootkit was exploited by other hackers. Lets not forget how many cheats currently exist for all of the games nProtect currently "protects". This is just another piece of software that brings more ineffective protection in exchange for lessened client side security. And given the patch history of CCP you would prefer a home grown application hacked up in a few months? I dont see the need for any application at all to do this job. Eve's client/server system already does not trust any client-side data (client is basically a viewer, and you dont deliver commands, but only requests. the server decides if that request is valid or not before making your ship turn / etc.) In the case for people who automatically log out, this can be fixed by extending the 15 minute pvp timer to pve as well. Holding your ship in a 1au safespot for 15 minutes, leaving a macroratter's ship vulnerable to probing. Even if they had full access to my computer and monitored every process, they could not prevent cheating. I could run my cheat on a remote computer who is viewing my desktop via remotedesktop / vnc / whatever, and perform clicks via that based on image recognition. So do we also prevent Microsoft Remote Desktop from being installed in order to play eve? What about the thousands of people who have legitimate reasons for using vnc type software? Theres simply no such thing as a working anti-cheat (and i worked heavily in conjunction with several anticheat software developers). All anti-cheats can do is act like virus scanners, and detect known cheats. Many, many cheats are kept extremely private and are never detected. Many of the most popular FPS cheats are infact a single cheat that can change its signature so that it avoids recognition by anti-cheat software. Many computer viruses work this exact same way. A good example would be BO2K or Sub7, extremely common backdoor trojans that are still impossible to be detected by any anti-virus software. (unless the hacker is an idiot of course). These have been available to the public freely for many many years, But norton, mcafee, etc still can not detect them. Currently, the best solution is TPM (Trusted Platform Module) which basically operates a hardware-based whitelist of allowed programs. Military, government, and major corporate organizations use this. Though, it requires specific hardware that is compatable, as well as preventing you from running MANY of the applications we all use. For example, say goodbye to uTorrent, evemon, pidgin, filezilla, adobe flash plugin, etc, etc...
FishermansFriend	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:24:00 - [7] None of that stuff ever works even for bots. I bet within a day of release of a new Eve integrated anti-cheat program there will be people that figured a way around it. Take a look at sony/apple/Microsoft/nintendo... the list goes on and on.
Sentient Blade	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:33:00 - [8] Yes that application is definitely bearing all of the distinguishing features of a rootkit. Why do you have reason to believe that CCP may be incorporating this into EvE? I for one would not allow it anywhere near my home PC, which is also my work PC.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:36:00 - [9] Has it become your new job to spam the forums with troll posts and try to stir up **** Miilla? Seriously, go outside or something. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Armoured C Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:42:00 - [10] sory i am a bit of a techno noob what is this crap ? looks like from the wikki it assesses what programmes i have open. well if a botting programme is a programme that get put on it list then wouldn't it stop botting ect doesn't sound like a bad programme unless ccp can use it to get into my system and delete my pron lol =/ THE EVE REPORT
Tasha Baxter Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:49:00 - [11] Is Miilla trolling WILDLY?
Lt Angus Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Tasha Baxter Is Miilla trolling WILDLY? its the new forum bot 1.0 Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.27 21:52:00 - [13] Push button, receive bacon.
Joran Dravius Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.03.27 22:53:00 - [14] Edited by: Joran Dravius on 27/03/2011 22:54:52 Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 27/03/2011 20:38:20 Is the new security drive going to be using GameGuard nProtect? GameGuard GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, Keylogs your keyboard input, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface. In short, it is a rootkit. Game guard does nothing. Name me a game that uses it and I'll link you a hacking video from it. Won't even take me 5 minutes to find one. All it does is waste CCP's money and our time and computer resources.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.27 22:56:00 - [15] Nice troll, but it is certainly the last Miila thread I clicked. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Scorpyn Caldari Warp Ghosts Omega Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2011.03.27 22:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 27/03/2011 20:38:20 Is the new security drive going to be using GameGuard nProtect? GameGuard GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, Keylogs your keyboard input, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface. In short, it is a rootkit. Starting with a question doesn't make the rest of the post a fact.
Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.27 22:58:00 - [17] Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 27/03/2011 22:58:34 Originally by: Terminal Insanity Eve's client/server system already does not trust any client-side data (client is basically a viewer, and you dont deliver commands, but only requests. the server decides if that request is valid or not before making your ship turn / etc.) That's what they should have done. Don't believe one second that's what they actually did. Also even if the EvE client was truly dumb that doesn't help fighting bots a lot. There are no macrominers in EVE
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.03.27 23:03:00 - [18] A program such as that could do nothing that the EVE server/client relationship doesn't already do. It won't happen.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.27 23:05:00 - [19] Edited by: mkmin on 27/03/2011 23:05:35 Folks, you meant to hit that other link on the right. Not reply, but the other one. Right below reply.
Scorpyn Caldari Warp Ghosts Omega Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2011.03.27 23:07:00 - [20] Originally by: mkmin Edited by: mkmin on 27/03/2011 23:05:35 Folks, you meant to hit that other link on the right. Not reply, but the other one. Right below reply. Using one doesn't mean that it's impossible to use the other.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.03.27 23:08:00 - [21] In his presentation CCP Sreegs said the code they are adding to the client will only concern itself with the security of the client, not with what else is on you computer.
Jireel	Posted - 2011.03.28 01:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 27/03/2011 20:38:20 Is the new security drive going to be using GameGuard nProtect? GameGuard GameGuard hides the game application process, monitors the entire memory range, terminates applications defined by the game vendor and INCA Internet to be cheats (QIP for example), blocks certain calls to DirectX functions and Windows APIs, Keylogs your keyboard input, and auto-updates itself to change as new threats surface. In short, it is a rootkit. Gameguard, really ?
Ejit Amarr STD contractors	Posted - 2011.03.28 03:50:00 - [23] Adding features like Gameguard,...etc.. Would seriously hinder the Russian expansion. It really is about time that CCP considered thinking about their well established European market customers. Instead of the Mafia from Eastern Europe. CCP will never EVER add Gameguard!!!
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2011.03.28 09:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 28/03/2011 09:13:51 yeah lets install mandatory rootkit to all clients' computers, and abandon any current or possible future alternative platforms support, that will surely bring more customers. and the existing ones will LOVE this - surely they don't mind moving to beloved Windows back from linux or mac. also do you know how much unfortunate players of certain other game waited for GG's Win7 support? also i dont' know why but there are hordes of bots running on certain other MMO game's servers which has always used GG. the only publisher that got any results in battling them, used their own system to prevent them, still not entirely successful.
Arx Eladios THE PAROXYSM Session Changes	Posted - 2011.03.28 09:22:00 - [25] This will cause issues for us that use WINE to run EVE on Linux.
Sellendis Caldari The Ares project	Posted - 2011.03.28 09:31:00 - [26] GGuard is complete crap. All games i had with that were full of cheaters and botters. RPGs, FPS, you name it. Only thing GG did, was make problems for normal users. Logitech mouse software? Blacklisted. Some AV soft, blacklisted. uTorent/IM/whatever, all had problems with GG. Last game i played had GG and virtual keyboard + captcha for loging in. So you use your mouse to type your username and pass, lower letters, caps, numbers..., then the captcha part. If you get a DC, type all again, and the letters change position to fend of macroers and bots. Wanna know how it ended? Logging into a game using a bot bypassed all of that...so just by annoyance for protection people used bots to log in. And i never went back to that crap. GG would make more problems that it would fix. Its **** easy to crack, and only makes problems for end users.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.28 09:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Arx Eladios This will cause issues for us that use WINE to run EVE on Linux. It would only cause issues if there were even the smallest grain of truth to it. However it is yet another pointless troll from miilla so I wouldn't worry if I were you. As a rule, any post made by miilla or his/her alt me me2 can be thoroughly ignored as none of them contain anything of note.
Pandadora	Posted - 2011.03.28 10:11:00 - [28] Edited by: Pandadora on 28/03/2011 10:11:53 As was mentioned in the security talk, Eve is not going warden. So one can assume they not that stupid to bring rootkit software to the users PC.

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.28 10:33:00 - [29] Milla, the next time you start a rumor thread that is based on nothing but idle speculation and designed to enrage other players, you will be taking a long time out to reflect on it. Locked. Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Neamus	Posted - 2011.03.28 10:39:00 - [30] Lol, nearly everyone apart from the botters want botting to stop in EvE... But as soon as there's mention of any kind of added security to help this process, well all of a sudden an ebil root kit is being installed and the sky is falling down.

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