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The Obvious Macro Fix

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EDISON CLONE	Posted - 2011.03.30 16:49:00 - [31] I am in complete agreement with Jaari Val'Dara on this, she states my position much more eleoquently than I every could! bottom line: game bots will change much faster and easier than game content/complications.
MadJim	Posted - 2011.03.30 17:56:00 - [32] IMO the way to balance delayed (WH type) local in Null sec is to make all gate activations appear in local as an announcement is "Gate Activation ABC-00 Gate" or "Multiple Gate Activations XYZ-99 Gate"... That is all... no idea whether the gate was activated outbound or inbound, how many ships, hostile or freindly etc. This gives the solo ratter or miner a chance... at that point they can start scanning or ask in local if the person entering system is friend or foe... no one is protected from the ship(s) already present in a system when they show up... hostiles logged off in system can log back in undetected... now the bots may safe up as soon as a gate activates but the program would have no idea when to start doing it's botting again... ie was the next gate activation the first guy leaving or was it someone new coming into system or what... And if the macro is going to rely on dscan... just how is the program going to be able to tell the difference between a ship parked at a pos or the one coming to blow it up????
Jaari Val'Dara Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.03.30 18:22:00 - [33] Originally by: MadJim IMO the way to balance delayed (WH type) local in Null sec is to make all gate activations appear in local as an announcement is "Gate Activation ABC-00 Gate" or "Multiple Gate Activations XYZ-99 Gate"... That is all... no idea whether the gate was activated outbound or inbound, how many ships, hostile or freindly etc. This gives the solo ratter or miner a chance... at that point they can start scanning or ask in local if the person entering system is friend or foe... no one is protected from the ship(s) already present in a system when they show up... hostiles logged off in system can log back in undetected... now the bots may safe up as soon as a gate activates but the program would have no idea when to start doing it's botting again... ie was the next gate activation the first guy leaving or was it someone new coming into system or what... And if the macro is going to rely on dscan... just how is the program going to be able to tell the difference between a ship parked at a pos or the one coming to blow it up???? Actually I like this idea. That is closer to stopping macros. Friendly players would make a habit to identify themselves while going through blue systems and it would be enough for humans, but bots would struggle to understand whether the gate activation is a threat or not. It would still need some improvements to dscan, but it is closer to proper solution.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2011.03.30 19:39:00 - [34] Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite on 30/03/2011 19:48:18 Originally by: MadJim IMO the way to balance delayed (WH type) local in Null sec is to make all gate activations appear in local as an announcement is "Gate Activation ABC-00 Gate" or "Multiple Gate Activations XYZ-99 Gate"... That is all... no idea whether the gate was activated outbound or inbound, how many ships, hostile or freindly etc. This gives the solo ratter or miner a chance... at that point they can start scanning or ask in local if the person entering system is friend or foe... no one is protected from the ship(s) already present in a system when they show up... hostiles logged off in system can log back in undetected... now the bots may safe up as soon as a gate activates but the program would have no idea when to start doing it's botting again... ie was the next gate activation the first guy leaving or was it someone new coming into system or what... And if the macro is going to rely on dscan... just how is the program going to be able to tell the difference between a ship parked at a pos or the one coming to blow it up???? I do like this alteration... Also, since nobody wants to type into local that they are friendly every time they enter a new system, I would also recommend an auto-announce option: When enabled, your client automatically enters your personal signature into local whenever you enter a new system. Provide an easy way (hot key shortcut) to toggle this option on and off. I would also appreciate it if your local window automatically loaded pilot info for all pilots that appear on your overview. This way a scout could drag that pilot portrait into the local chat, and announce the pilot to the system. I fear the time it takes for a tengu to break gate cloak and cloak is too slim for many covop pilots to get a pilots name. While I like this change to local it wont solve the macro problem. Macro's will auto-align, and warp the second something non-npc appears on the overview. Additionally, macro's are sophisticated enough to work together and self identify in local. Finally, while your suggestion requires no local count to be effective against ratters, I think a local count is a fair piece of intel to provide. Without it, a human cant deduce if local is friendly or not either...
Cedims	Posted - 2011.03.31 07:50:00 - [35] Local as it is now, is really only used as a system alarm or as a smack channel. That's the simple truth. Some corps/alliances even have rules for using local. (A local might be needed as a means to limit communication within the system, but the automatic character listing is just way too convenient, and should definitely be eliminated.) We already have corp/alliance and fleet channels, we create intel channels, etc. All other communicative channels (the built-in ones) should be "blind" IMHO. If you don't identify yourself, you are an unknown. I like the idea proposed above (by MadJim), about the gate announcements. It makes a lot of sense. EVE is supposed to be about active players, so why not give the "macros" a little bit of grief. If every announcement makes them warp around or cloak, their profit goes down and how would they determine when it's "safe" to warp back anyways? Announcement wouldn't come in pairs, for easy macro development. Since it's difficult to prove or catch macros, at least make it tough to earn those "free" ISKies. The removal of the local character listing doesn't just affect the "natives" but also affects the aggro roamer since they no longer get an instant picture of possible victims, nor would they immediately know the size of a possible opposing force. Speaking of which, maybe an introduction of scanning interference (or not working at all) close to gates? Just a thought.
Cruthensis Gallente Xeno Tech Corp Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.31 11:00:00 - [36] Originally by: MadJim IMO the way to balance delayed (WH type) local in Null sec is to make all gate activations appear in local as an announcement is "Gate Activation ABC-00 Gate" or "Multiple Gate Activations XYZ-99 Gate"... now the bots may safe up as soon as a gate activates but the program would have no idea when to start doing it's botting again... ie was the next gate activation the first guy leaving or was it someone new coming into system or what... And if the macro is going to rely on dscan... just how is the program going to be able to tell the difference between a ship parked at a pos or the one coming to blow it up???? A thousand up-votes to you (if we were on the new forums discussing this!) I'm very much in agreement with the idea of loading any pilot viewed on grid into local, though what would you do with them if/when they leave local? Or cloak. Or log. Tricky issue. I'd like to add to this auto-show of anyone with whom you share certain standings. This could be customised, but basically you can tick boxes like so: [] Auto identify to those with excellent standing [ ] Auto identify to those with good standing (and so on, though why you'd want to advertise yourself to neutrals or reds I'm not sure. Perhaps Goons would find some fun in it ) [] Only auto identify to reciprocates** (would only show you in local to those who set themselves to show to you, effectively forcing it to be a shared standing, rather than yours alone) The idea of a local count I'm ambivalent on. With a bunch of blues in-system, you'd quickly be able to discern any extras which is slightly immersion breaking intel, but then, you wouldn't know what they were, nor their intent (though it being 0.0, their intent will undoubtedly be your untimely, firey demise) As a buff to covops ships, you could have the local count, but only for either uncloaked ships, or any ships not cloaked with covops cloak. That may be a buff too far though, as intel would be flowing one way and not the other, which would be a massive buff to AFK cloaking.
Cruthensis Gallente Xeno Tech Corp Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.03.31 11:05:00 - [37] Originally by: MadJim make all gate activations appear in local as an announcement is "Gate Activation ABC-00 Gate" or "Multiple Gate Activations XYZ-99 Gate"... One second thoughts, stating which gate has activated is free intel of high value and would perhaps be a step too far. Local right now doesn't give you that, unless you're in a dead-end system. I think it should just state that gate activation has occured. I could imagine some sneaky tactics going on with people trying to "piggyback" into red/neutral systems with red/neutral gangs, by jumping in shortly after their jump to disguise their entry.
shadowace00007	Posted - 2011.03.31 14:34:00 - [38] Sounds like you just need to suck it up and go to WH space. don't worry I will be watching =).
EDISON CLONE	Posted - 2011.04.02 20:27:00 - [39] the new eve security bots (CCP anti bots) starting at time 26:20 on this You Tube vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSNd_w86Hw&feature=related ...we are currently targeting specific bot vendors...we want to make our anti bots at least 98% reliable...and 100% after human review... why did this take 2 years? ccp: we had to hire specific people in house will this address marketing, mining, and other bots? ccp: yes
EDISON CLONE	Posted - 2011.04.02 20:40:00 - [40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSNd_w86Hw&feature=related time 42:50 couldn't we address the boringness of mining? CCP: we are working on it What about the minerals the bots are currently supplying? CCP: we will be monitoring that closely as we go along (panic buying of trit and other minerals)
Vance Black Caldari ORIGIN SYSTEMS	Posted - 2011.04.03 02:45:00 - [41] Edited by: Vance Black on 03/04/2011 02:47:40 This would only work if bots actually used local, which they probably don't. Remember Bacon, when that was brought into the limelight, that didn't use local at all, sure the vulnerability was fixed, but it only takes a smart programmer and enough time to break through and get that same data from the server. All the articles on the eve fansites suggest that the botters do not even use local at all, they just take the feed from the server directly using python injection to work out when people enter local. Besides, I would be willing to wager that the only difference between local in 0.0 and local in W-space is that the W-space local doesn't display the info its recieved from the server straight away, it still gets the data, it just waits for the person to speak in local before it adds them to the channel. This would mean that it would be just as easy for a botter to get the info from the local channel if it used it at all. --------------------------------- Your clone is mine

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