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Sov is fine and doesn't favor defense at all

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Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:48:00 - [1] http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/IT_Alliance/corporations IT Alliance lost most of its members in February 21 (so it has been more than a month already). Yet they still have sovereignty on 50+ systems and 25 outposts. In EVE, ghosts can man trenches, awesome game design right here...
Ripperljohn Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:50:00 - [2] or a lot of ppl just can't be arsed to give a ** about shooting iHubs and Stations in undefended systems -------------------------------------------------- "Look, we're basically on earth to and . So unless your job's to help people or **, it's not that important, so relax." -shi
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.03.29 12:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Ripperljohn or a lot of ppl just can't be arsed to give a **** about shooting iHubs and Stations in undefended systems Can't possibly be a fault of the game design. Don't you find it odd that anyone attempting to clear IT sov would need to commit huge resources for a pretty long period of time despite having little to fear from the current owners (no disrespect for EVOL but I don't think they have the numbers to do anything meaningful). All while risking the odd PL hotdrop if you deploy enough shiny things to make it worthwhile...
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:02:00 - [4] Tbh while the sov mechanics are horribly broken, the reason no one claims that sov is that as soon as you kill IT sov PL will hotdrop your TCU with a bunch of motherships.
Ripperljohn Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Ripperljohn on 29/03/2011 13:10:41 Originally by: Caius Sivaris Originally by: Ripperljohn or a lot of ppl just can't be arsed to give a ** about shooting iHubs and Stations in undefended systems Can't possibly be a fault of the game design. Don't you find it odd that anyone attempting to clear IT sov would need to commit huge resources for a pretty long period of time despite having little to fear from the current owners (no disrespect for EVOL but I don't think they have the numbers to do anything meaningful). All while risking the odd PL hotdrop if you deploy enough shiny things to make it worthwhile... why kill it off if you can just wait for them to stop paying the sovbills? and why would anyone give a damn about a bunch of systems in nowhereland? the game design is broken as eff, but that's not the reason why there's no one else grabbing sov there -------------------------------------------------- "Look, we're basically on earth to and . So unless your job's to help people or **, it's not that important, so relax." -shi
Tasha Baxter Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:36:00 - [6] ...Or maybe people are just caught up in their own stuff, wars/defence w/e to go and claim all those systems. Many things in EVE are akin to RL, just because somewhere is unoccupied doesn't mean everyone wants to claim and develop it.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 13:50:00 - [7] Doesn't that say more about the fickle nature of IT's enemies than the mechanics? Like a group of kids torturing a stray dog, "oh man this is the life". Eventually the mutt dies from its injuries and the kids are "What the hell!?", "Whatever, lets go hang at the mall guys". ADHD may be a contested diagnosis, but we have at least a couple of generations with attention spans measured in seconds
Cyrus Doul Infinite Development	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:00:00 - [8] Look at it this way. PL has a decent amount of station systems owned. IDK how much I would trust them wtiht he whole selling systems thing. But if i wanted to buy a system that I figure prolly has level five military and mining upgrades installed, I would just get one then go use the PL station that they prolly let me dock at. Saves me paying 2 million a day.
Xyris Rixx	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:16:00 - [9] If as you mantain nobody is defending the space then anyone can go and take it. If on the other hand you are comlaining that someone IS defending the space then what are you complaining about? T present for whatever reason PL is defending the space. If no-one is strong enough to step up and take the space from PL then that is a different matter all toghether and hardly one that deserves a whine thread
Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Doesn't that say more about the fickle nature of IT's enemies than the mechanics? Like a group of kids torturing a stray dog, "oh man this is the life". Eventually the mutt dies from its injuries and the kids are "What the hell!?", "Whatever, lets go hang at the mall guys". ADHD may be a contested diagnosis, but we have at least a couple of generations with attention spans measured in seconds Painting BoB as a defenseless stray dog, that's rich... However the point that is made is more that 50 systems are basically unmanned yet it's so much of an hassle to kill the required dumb structures hitpoints than nobody's doing it... There are no macrominers in EVE
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Doesn't that say more about the fickle nature of IT's enemies than the mechanics? Like a group of kids torturing a stray dog, "oh man this is the life". Eventually the mutt dies from its injuries and the kids are "What the hell!?", "Whatever, lets go hang at the mall guys". ADHD may be a contested diagnosis, but we have at least a couple of generations with attention spans measured in seconds Stop pretending that dog didn't deserve to die. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Effortless Breeze Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2011.03.29 14:49:00 - [12] Why grind away at IT's sov when you have sanctums to run in Pure Blind and Fade? .... or am I just dreaming?
Lubomir Penev Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Effortless Breeze Why grind away at IT's sov when you have sanctums to run in Pure Blind and Fade? Why taking a(n almost) dead alliance sov got to be a grind. If land grab ever must come easy it's in that kind of situation... There are no macrominers in EVE
Gavjack Bunk Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:04:00 - [14] I guess space must be too big if it's not even worth capturing.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:10:00 - [15] Just deploy like 60 dreads and wipe them out. Oh wait, one super carrier can shred that fleet before they can come out of siege...
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:10:00 - [16] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 29/03/2011 15:16:00 Timers suck, 0.0 does need to be looked at but the main reason IT are there is because of the timers, the current mechanics suck and sov warfare is limited to "blob here, crash node, come back tomorrow" which is pretty dumb. There is no reason why IT should be on the map and yes it is the mechanics fault, it was just as stupid when TEST claimed Fountain, Structure / Node warfare at its finest >.> CCP Grayscales plan + a sov mechanic revamp would change this easily. . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Ray Tucker	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:13:00 - [17] Most sov changes since Dominion seems to be one out of following: 1)Disbands 2)Clearing out failcascaded alliances While space is actively defended it almost never changes sov holder, only in case of overwhelming attacker's forces.
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk I guess space must be too big if it's not even worth capturing. Why not let some other scrubs capture it by devoting their time and effort then take it away from said scrubs for the lulz. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Painting BoB as a defenseless stray dog, that's rich... They barked frequently, did they not? They took a bite out of seemingly random people, did they not? They were rather smelly at times, were they not? They were pretty loyal to whomever scratched their back, were they not? etc. Sounds a lot like a stray dog to me Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Stop pretending that dog didn't deserve to die. No need for pretending. Everything must end; one cannot defeat entropy, merely postpone the inevitable.
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y.	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:26:00 - [20] That is because of :effort:. Why does IT having sov in places no one is willing to commit to take it bother you so much?
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.03.29 15:45:00 - [21] This thread shows why the anomaly change is Good.
Clavian Voi	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:32:00 - [22] The current system is terrible. In fact, it's actually worse than the old one in many respects. When you get right down to it, the current sov system is nothing more than a game of capture the flag with a bunch of convoluted timers built in. It's ** game design and ought to be thrown out entirely. A player-run empire ought to resemble a real empire. And just like a real empire there ought to be tangible benefits to strategic alliances, keeping the trade lanes open, policing space against criminals, the ability to collect system-wide taxes from all activity in the area, etc. Instead, we get a ** game of capture the flag and anyone that flies into the system is instantly executed. Ridiculous and boring. CCP has created an incredible game with EVE Online, but the sov mechanics undermine that vision tremendously. It could be so much more than it is.
Cheapo Hobo	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:57:00 - [23] What's this "SOV" everyone keeps yapping on about? In my days we used a meat grinder, flour and corn. None of that fancy abbreviated stuff ya'll kids seem to know so much about.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:00:00 - [24] Sov Warfare should favor Defender, they are the ones that spent the money and resources to either build up the systems or to take them from a different owner.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Marconus Orion That is because of :effort:. Why does IT having sov in places no one is willing to commit to take it bother you so much? The old alliance that took the space has been dead for more than a month and most of it is still unclaimed because it's not really feasible? Gee, you know, I have no idea why that would catch anyone's attention. It really is a mystery.
Aessoroz Nohbdy.	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:02:00 - [26] Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/03/2011 17:02:22 Originally by: Clavian Voi A player-run empire ought to resemble a real empire. And just like a real empire there ought to be tangible benefits to strategic alliances, keeping the trade lanes open, policing space against criminals, the ability to collect system-wide taxes from all activity in the area, etc. Instead, we get a **** game of capture the flag and anyone that flies into the system is instantly executed. Ridiculous and boring. Nobody living in nullsec wants any of that besides CVA or whatever that alliance was that failcascaded out of providence. People want to shoot stuff and very frequently, that won't come from policing systems. And where do you think trade comes from in null? From people blowing the everloving crap out of other people requiring new ships, fittings and ammo constantly.
Montgomery Crabapple	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:02:00 - [27] Let's face it, the idea of "sov" in 0.0 is just dumb. Remove sov entirely. I have no idea why it's needed.
Lykouleon Bad Kitty Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.29 17:51:00 - [28] tbh, everyone 12 months ago was screaming that the new sov system heavily favored attackers of defenders. now they're screaming it favors defenders over attackers make up your **** minds Don't click on this. No, really, don't, it'll make your eyes bleed.
Max Troxler Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2011.03.29 19:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Aessoroz Nobody living in nullsec wants any of that besides CVA or whatever that alliance was that failcascaded out of providence. People want to shoot stuff and very frequently, that won't come from policing systems. And where do you think trade comes from in null? From people blowing the everloving crap out of other people requiring new ships, fittings and ammo constantly. Oh please, spare us the tough guy talk. Many of us have lived in 0.0 for years and have been an active part of multiple alliances. And we all know the fact is a huge percentage of 0.0 dwellers are only interested in ratting, mining, and running complexes. In short, it's useless to deny that "carebearing" is a big part of what alliance members do. I'm all for PvP and for blowing people to bits as often as possible. But there ought to be some point to it, like defending a valuable resource or whatever. This isn't Team Fortress and EVE shouldn't devolve into brainless ganking for the sake of brainless ganking. Surely CCP can do a lot better than the current sov system.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.29 19:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/03/2011 17:02:22 Originally by: Clavian Voi A player-run empire ought to resemble a real empire. And just like a real empire there ought to be tangible benefits to strategic alliances, keeping the trade lanes open, policing space against criminals, the ability to collect system-wide taxes from all activity in the area, etc. Instead, we get a ** game of capture the flag and anyone that flies into the system is instantly executed. Ridiculous and boring. Nobody living in nullsec wants any of that besides CVA or whatever that alliance was that failcascaded out of providence. People want to shoot stuff and very frequently, that won't come from policing systems. And where do you think trade comes from in null? From people blowing the everloving crap out of other people requiring new ships, fittings and ammo constantly. You are either ****ed or doing a good impression of someone who is. There are very few sov 0.0 regions that saw as much pvp as providence, if any.

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