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Dustin Roac
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
As this is my money maker, and I'm comfortbly running level 4's now I'm just trying to get more efficient at them. So after gettin ga bestower full of loot, I make my usual trip to 4-4 to offload it. It just so happened I got to log off for a couple hours after making my orders then coming back to see a lot of them filled, and I'm able to buy a couple of goodies to hopefully make my missioning better, and stock up on some missiles.
So I've got roughtly around 100-150mil items, in particilar a gist-a kin hardner and a gist-a therm hardner, along with about 10,000 assorted T2 missiles.
I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me
I know right then I'm not going to make it.
KillMail
I know better than to smack talk, especially after something so minimal. While I did immediately log off as I was a bit pissed, but put it aside, logged back on and bought me another bestower and fitted it, got some more missiles and went back to grind again.
After looking at the killmail though, and seeing he was in an apoc, I have to wonder, that seems like a high risk for a suicide gank. The thermal hardner was the most at about 65mil, the kin one was 50, and only one of them dropped. a few mil in the missiles dropped... Even if everything had dropped it seemed like a very small profit margin for a suicide right outside the station
But that thought aside, I also wonder how am I supposed to prevent this? Something tells me not to expect this unless I'm hauling a VERY expensive load, but in that case, am I supposed to use sealed cargo, just stay way from hubs, etc.. ?
Props to the guy, it was a one shot kill as far as I saw, but am I missing something or did he come out negative on that deal?
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Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
259
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
It cost him 25m at most, depends if he has a chance to scoop his loot back, and what dropped but it could cost less.
I'm sure you realise he hardly has a chance to reship to something cheaper so the Apoc is the one size fits all of suicide ganks.
In your instance, the odds are in his favour and he only has a short moment to decide if he is going to kill you or not so seeing 2x gist XXXXXX modules is usually good enough.
Are you sure you weren't under war dec and didn't realise it since he is in the orphanage after all. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard Talocan United
21
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dustin Roac wrote:I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me
Aha, I see the issue.
Make an undock safe spot directly in the direction of travel when you undock. For example, warp to Jita IV Moon 1 and create a bookmark along the way.
Next time that you undock in anything fancy, warp to this safe spot instead of any gate. You'll go to warp instantly (or near so, depending on if you get bumped) and get out of the Jita 4-4 killzone.
As for other gates along the way, manual pilot and use a ship with a buffer tank to survive until Concord shows up. If you can afford Deep Space Haulers or even Orcas, those are the way to go. |

Dustin Roac
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:It cost him 25m at most, depends if he has a chance to scoop his loot back, and what dropped but it could cost less.
I'm sure you realise he hardly has a chance to reship to something cheaper so the Apoc is the one size fits all of suicide ganks.
In your instance, the odds are in his favour and he only has a short moment to decide if he is going to kill you or not so seeing 2x gist XXXXXX modules is usually good enough.
Are you sure you weren't under war dec and didn't realise it since he is in the orphanage after all.
This char for mission purposes has never left the NPC corp, so it wasn't a wardec.
I just figured if it was a continual thing he was doing, surely there were more appealing targets coming in and out. I've crawled out of there in more isk than that in missiles, normally.
It just got me thinking, there's always large groups just sitting around there. If I actually had a very expensive or somewhat important haul coming out of there Is it a safer bet to just contract it out to say red frog freight, or will secure containers stop scans, (or I would think likely make them more attractive targets).
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Dustin Roac
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 07:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Dustin Roac wrote:I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me Aha, I see the issue. Make an undock safe spot directly in the direction of travel when you undock. For example, warp to Jita IV Moon 1 and create a bookmark along the way. Next time that you undock in anything fancy, warp to this safe spot instead of any gate. You'll go to warp instantly (or near so, depending on if you get bumped) and get out of the Jita 4-4 killzone. As for other gates along the way, manual pilot and use a ship with a buffer tank to survive until Concord shows up. If you can afford Deep Space Haulers or even Orcas, those are the way to go.
I'll have to do this, would have saved me... maybe I suppose. It wasn't an instant lock.. probably 4-6 seconds. But I know enough to know my align times and I was a goner. I have heard of those insta-BM's but never thought I needed one yet.. Guess it's time as I'm getting into the more expensive stuff. |

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
259
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 08:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you are confident enough and willing to add a little security to your shopping trips then you can learn about insta undocks and mwd/cloak warping from gates (or simply moving high value mods in something more tankable than a bestower)
If not, or you just want convenience, buy remotely and set up contracts to have stuff moved. Be sure the collateral at LEAST covers the cost of the mods and the payout is decent enough. You don't have to use Red Frog but I have occasionally had people failing contracts due to suicide ganks in the past when I just put them up for anyone. No skin off my nose as I actually profit from the collateral albeit slighty. What I lose from that is the timeliness of my deliveries.
It's your call.
Old but overall relevant... http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=NinjaHauling&show_comments=1
insta undock info.... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safespot#.22Station.22_Safe_Spot
GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Nicolai Xperte
Smoking Hillbillys
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 08:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
As said by previous replies about the instant warp on undock simply grab a frig wit a mwd and just undock click the mwd. After 150km set a book mark and u will be good to go. Another thing u have kill rights if u know he is a regular to the system get ur self in a combat ship and get u a free km it will give u some satisfaction. |

Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 13:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bestowers have mid slots too, just like all the other ships. Try putting some tank on it.
Low slots aren't just for cargo expanders, try putting some tank there too.
If you want to fly high value, small volume items like Gist-A or officer loot, don't use a paper-thin industrial, use a tanked ship that warps quicker. Industrials are for the large volumes like your piles of missiles.
The quick-warp undock bookmark will help you get out of station, but once you're traveling the gates, you still would've gotten ganked.
tl;dr: Tank your ship. Don't haul Faberge Eggs in a U-haul truck. |

Steve Ronuken
Cossette Moana
4
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shield tanked Battleship with extenders, a DC2 and Invulns.
Sure, you might only get 2000 odd m3 of space, but you'll be carrying it in something that can stand up to most alpha strikes. (multiple at that). You're not safe, but you're not running around in an eggshell. |

Ikka Sunto
Bedlam Boys
2
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Like others said, insta-undock warps spots and transport ships are good, but I've also found that simply using a couple of GSCs will stop most gankers in ships larger than cruisers. Most gankers don't want to lose a ship for a kill that has empty GSCs, or GSCs full of missiles. And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC, most gankers won't risk it. Just tank enough that you can withstand a thrasher or two for about 10 seconds, and wait for Concord to save you. |

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard Talocan United
21
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ikka Sunto wrote:And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC
Not entirely accurate. |

Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
130
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Posted - 2011.09.27 17:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ikka Sunto wrote:Like others said, insta-undock warps spots and transport ships are good, but I've also found that simply using a couple of GSCs will stop most gankers in ships larger than cruisers. Most gankers don't want to lose a ship for a kill that has empty GSCs, or GSCs full of missiles. And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC, most gankers won't risk it. Just tank enough that you can withstand a thrasher or two for about 10 seconds, and wait for Concord to save you.
You can see inside GSC's-don't listen to this guy. You cannot see an assembled container in a cargo scan, you can only see it's contents.
This article talks about avoiding the gank: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=6_34&page=3 |

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dustin Roac wrote:
Props to the guy, it was a one shot kill as far as I saw, but am I missing something or did he come out negative on that deal?
You know, sometimes it is just for the lulz...and not always about the loot.
|

Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 18:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
The main objective aside from undock warp points...is not to fly obvious hauling ships out of Jita.
Hell...don't shop at Jita unless you cant avoid it.
Honestly if I need a "Bestowers" worth of cargo...Id fly a battleship fully tanked or a Transport Ship with tank designed to survive an onslaught of that magnitude.
Still use a bookmark regardless.
I beleive the ship you'd want is an Impel Class.
Even then...small goodies that valuable? A less obvious ship would be best...
Like a frigate...or a cruiser.
NOT A shuttle.
I tend to use an Orca hoenstly...cause you can't scan corp hangers.  |

De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
7
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shasz wrote:
tl;dr: Tank your ship. Don't haul Faberge Eggs in a U-haul truck.
This is the most important lesson you should learn from this.
If you are carrying small, high value items, use a small, well tanked, fast aligning ship. Battle cruisers work well, as do T3 cruisers. Then fit it to minimize your align time and maximize your tank. For really small items, choose speed over tank. For example, I tend to use stealth bombers to move things like implants and blueprints.
Some ECM drones wouldn't go amiss either, assuming you can use and fit them, but be careful with those as you won't be able to jump or redock until your aggression counter ends.
Sucks on your loss. Hope the advise helps. |

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
5
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread. Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere? |

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
263
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 18:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dirk Magnum wrote:Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread. Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere?
I was going to post a similar thing.
Now that you know how to avoid getting ganked next time, to answer the actual question in the title: Try to avoid any ladies loitering outside the station, in the shadows. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Zeta Zhul
Preemptive Paranoia
7
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Here's a question I can't remember if I've ever gotten an answer for:
If you get ganked, such as the OP, and have kill rights on someone. Just how far do those kill rights extend? Instead of killing the guy could I instead ... fit a Scorpion in an ewar setup with huge tank and then just mess with the guy every time he tries to lock someone up for a month?
Not hassling someone but every now and then if I'm bored and he's online in Jita? |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:Dirk Magnum wrote:Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread. Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere? I was going to post a similar thing. Now that you know how to avoid getting ganked next time, to answer the actual question in the title: Try to avoid any ladies loitering outside the station, in the shadows.
The OP never said anything about ladies... O.o |

Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zeta Zhul wrote:Here's a question I can't remember if I've ever gotten an answer for:
If you get ganked, such as the OP, and have kill rights on someone. Just how far do those kill rights extend? Instead of killing the guy could I instead ... fit a Scorpion in an ewar setup with huge tank and then just mess with the guy every time he tries to lock someone up for a month?
Not hassling someone but every now and then if I'm bored and he's online in Jita?
Odds are by the time you get around too it..he's likely long gone or you won't be in a posistion to retaliate.
As to the kill rights bit...30 days If I'm not mistakened....and I don't think you can pod him....not sure.
correct me If I'm wrong. |

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
264
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Kitty McKitty wrote:Dirk Magnum wrote:Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread. Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere? I was going to post a similar thing. Now that you know how to avoid getting ganked next time, to answer the actual question in the title: Try to avoid any ladies loitering outside the station, in the shadows. The OP never said anything about ladies... O.o
Quote:Involved parties:
Name: iceprick (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Corp: Interstellar Brotherhood
 GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Dustin Roac
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 20:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thanks for all the advice. As I don't expect to be hauling out any huge loads from here out (if I ever do a complete refit/reship I suppose I'll just have all the equip couriered)... I'm thinking maybe a heavily tanked drake with inertia stabs in the low's? (caldari pilot) Most people probably target EM in jita though so might not be the best route, I've got amarr up to cruisers so a couple days training would put me in a probably better route armor bc's, but then don't have the lows for stabs... hmm
Anyway something to think about I guess, thanks all again.
|

Gecko 136
Gekkorp
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 21:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dustin Roac wrote:As this is my money maker, and I'm comfortbly running level 4's now I'm just trying to get more efficient at them. So after gettin ga bestower full of loot, I make my usual trip to 4-4 to offload it. It just so happened I got to log off for a couple hours after making my orders then coming back to see a lot of them filled, and I'm able to buy a couple of goodies to hopefully make my missioning better, and stock up on some missiles. So I've got roughtly around 100-150mil items, in particilar a gist-a kin hardner and a gist-a therm hardner, along with about 10,000 assorted T2 missiles. I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me I know right then I'm not going to make it. KillMailI know better than to smack talk, especially after something so minimal. While I did immediately log off as I was a bit pissed, but put it aside, logged back on and bought me another bestower and fitted it, got some more missiles and went back to grind again. After looking at the killmail though, and seeing he was in an apoc, I have to wonder, that seems like a high risk for a suicide gank. The thermal hardner was the most at about 65mil, the kin one was 50, and only one of them dropped. a few mil in the missiles dropped... Even if everything had dropped it seemed like a very small profit margin for a suicide right outside the station But that thought aside, I also wonder how am I supposed to prevent this? Something tells me not to expect this unless I'm hauling a VERY expensive load, but in that case, am I supposed to use sealed cargo, just stay way from hubs, etc.. ? Props to the guy, it was a one shot kill as far as I saw, but am I missing something or did he come out negative on that deal? He killed you to extract tears. Mission accomplished.
Also, to answer the question in your title, wear a condom. |

Sugilite
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 21:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dustin Roac wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. As I don't expect to be hauling out any huge loads from here out (if I ever do a complete refit/reship I suppose I'll just have all the equip couriered)... I'm thinking maybe a heavily tanked drake with inertia stabs in the low's? (caldari pilot) Most people probably target EM in jita though so might not be the best route, I've got amarr up to cruisers so a couple days training would put me in a probably better route armor bc's, but then don't have the lows for stabs... hmm
Anyway something to think about I guess, thanks all again.
Jita's a .9 system and there is often concord sitting right there on the station. Fly in something that can't be alphad and you're fine. Drake works. |

TalonKarrde84
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 23:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Get in a shuttle or frigate w/ MWD, undock from Jita 4-4, fly out past collision range of the blob of ships, and engage your MWD.
Let it sit for about 5 minutes.
When you come back, check for bumping - is the ass end of your ship still pointed at Jita 4-4 station?
If so, make a bookmark.
Warp back to Jita 4-4 station. Fly right up to the mouth of the docking bay. Make another bookmark.
From now on, when you warp to Jita 4-4 station, warp to the point-blank bookmark, so you'll be inside the docking radius and dock instantly.
From now on, when you undock from Jita 4-4 station, take NO ACTION except to r-click in the starfield and select your undock BM.
You will warp off immediately, regardless of what ship you are in.
The only thing that can get you if you do this is someone suiciding with smartbombs, so do it in a tanked Orca and you're set - but just for the record I have smuggled trillions of isk in and out of Jita 4-4 in a shuttle this way.
Apparently people don't like to smartbomb 4-4, something about going to -10 sec status instantaneously and being run out of hisec by CONCORD  |

Otonashi Saya
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Wow iceprick you evil Person you!......Advice for OP Just fly something that is Tanky, that way less chance of Ganky. |

Dustin Roac
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 03:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'll just say I've came out of this affair a wiser person.
I had under estimated the risk I was taking, now that I'm breaking into the expensive higher end equipment, and was caught unprepared and unawares.
In fact I almost want to thank iceprick (almost) for helping teach me this lesson now, had I opted to save that isk my next run was going to be on a near bil to complete my fit. Losing that might have actually brought on the lulzy tears.
So thanks, Crime & Punishment, and all those associated with that endeavor. I do hope the gist therm hardner goes to good use or profit.  |

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
67
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 12:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
RE: Whether he breaks even on this or not.
Consider, that in a fully untanked Bestower you can get one-shot by a 6mil Rupture, so you're pretty much dead set on doomville if you don't tank.
The rest of the advice here is solid, too.
There's one Caldari battleship that does the tanky hauler thing particularly nicely, The Rokh.
Loads of EHP and rarely gets cargo scanned. Try:
[Rokh, Haulin'] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
[empty high slot x8]
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Undock, overheat and activate the mids, and start warping away. You get ~210k EHP so anything short of an armada won't hurt you. In less tricky situations, just activate the hardeners. You have more EHP than a Freighter. 1295m3 cargo space. Yeah .. its not a lot. But it will move plenty of high value modules, faction ammo, blueprints, what have you. |
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