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Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:27:00 - [1] Howdy folks, I came back to the game recently and have been having a blast playing again. I just recently passed the 5 mill SP mark and was thinking about moving out to the big bad 0.0 lands. So I brought the map up and decided to find a nice area without many neighbors. You know something small and semi-private. I clicked on the button to show all areas that are claimed. Holy Carp I said, as pretty much every stinking star system has been claimed by someone. I doubt there were 2 dozen stars that were still gray and unclaimed (that are not in the Jovian area), And every one of those was smack in the middle of huge chunks of occupied space. How in the heck do they expect people to move out into 0.0 when pretty much every piece of space is owned by some huge corp or alliance? I know, JOIN AN ALLIANCE AND KOWTOW TO YOUR OVERLORDS! I do not want to pay rent (billions I hear) for space someone has thrown a flag on, especially if they don't want it for anything but the rent it generates. But how can a small group of people or even one stand a chance to try and take something from a behemoth that has claimed the area? CCP is making changes to how 0.0 works. I guess us folks stuck in High sec will have to wait and see if the changes really do cause all the alliances to drop 80% of 0.0 as worthless if they make the new changes. Because that's probably going to be the only way you see new faces move out of high sec. OK, I am done with my bit. If you are going to troll (and I know some of you just HAVE to) at least make it funny or interesting.
Ordais	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:38:00 - [2] 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways...
Madison Omega	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:46:00 - [3] After this many years of EVE I'd expect most of 0.0 to be claimed by someone already...
theocratis	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:50:00 - [4] at this stage of the game the land rush is long over. If you want his space, you take his space. And you better research who his friends are before hand if you would like to keep his space.
Jupix Minmatar MuroBBS United	Posted - 2011.04.04 19:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Ordais 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) IMHO carebears from highsec don't go to 0.0 to make money. Like you said missions exist for that. They go there for the 0.0 "experience" or just a different playstyle or career for a change. If the majority of 0.0 is made less valuable, and big power players relinquish control over it, I'm all for it. This is because then, theoretically, more nullsec space would become inhabitable by more people than the let's-gank-for-lulz guys who currently inhabit NPC sov 0.0. If this were to happen, then I could, for example, start trading or manufacturing in 0.0, for 0.0 residents.
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Ordais 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways... Nice alt post. Who listens to an alt? Especially a no faced alt?
Calfis Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Ordais 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways... Nice alt post. Who listens to an alt? Especially a no faced alt? He's right, you are not entitled to a piece of nullsec, if you want it you either have to fight for it or you have to fall in line with one of the established powers. They built up an organization and administer the space so why the outrage that you might have to get on one knee before you get ahead in 0.0?
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Calfis Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Ordais 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways... Nice alt post. Who listens to an alt? Especially a no faced alt? He's right, you are not entitled to a piece of nullsec, if you want it you either have to fight for it or you have to fall in line with one of the established powers. They built up an organization and administer the space so why the outrage that you might have to get on one knee before you get ahead in 0.0? Like all of those out in 0.0 had to fight for it? Most of them just moved in and laid claim, never fought once. But that's OK, you go ahead and act like you fought tooth and nail for every scrap of space you or your alliance owns when you know that's not how it went down. According to the devs it's apparently been care-bear heaven out there and that's why they want to shake things up. I guess if the alliances had been doing any kind of real fighting CCP would not be taking the steps they are now.
Gertrude Sei	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:36:00 - [9] Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS.
Simon Codolle	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:40:00 - [10] Edited by: Simon Codolle on 04/04/2011 20:40:52 Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. That's what I'm thinking of doing. I've only been playing for a short while, but there seems to be an established metagame for null sec that sort of eats new players alive. I could be completely wrong, of course, as I'm mostly basing this on things that I reading in the forums. All the same, though, living in a wormhole seems pretty cool. Actually, I have a related question to that: I know certain wormholes lead to wh space, and others lead to null sec. Are those null sec areas accessed by wormhole only accessible via wormhole?
Neamus	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:40:00 - [11] Honestly flying solo with only 5m SP and no experience what-so-ever you're going to find things very tough anywhere in 0.0. If you're just starting out then initially you should join an established 0.0 corp. You need to at least "learn the ropes", then maybe you can think about forming your own corp later.
Merrik Talorra Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:44:00 - [12] Yeah, the big groups are entitled to the space they took. Cause they took it. They grabbed it when it was free, or fought for it and made it theirs. And they're the ones paying the sov bills and throwing fleets around to keep it that way. You could always send some messages around and maybe find some like-minded folks who also want their little piece of null sec, band together and push someone else off of their space. Then you can all split up the spoils of victory however you see fit.
Gertrude Sei	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Simon Codolle Edited by: Simon Codolle on 04/04/2011 20:40:52 Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. Actually, I have a related question to that: I know certain wormholes lead to wh space, and others lead to null sec. Are those null sec areas accessed by wormhole only accessible via wormhole? No.
Ordais	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:49:00 - [14] Sry, but go with the times will you? There is no space left for everyone anymore sind 2005, when everyone started claiming moons, investing in POS-equipment and later building outposts and stuff. That was billions back then, way more worth than today. And it was never a 5man undertaking, as you got obliterated anyway for good moons (BoBs campaigns anyone trying to keep competitors down?). When you are willing to invest the same to get your system, you will eventually get it. Maybe, if you are smart, even as a PARTNER in an alliance, you don't have to be a slave at all. Show your worth as corporation and go with it. I dont argue with you for more 0.0 space, i would support that ANY DAY, i even demand it whenever i can. But more space would still only mean more space for corps/groups, not your 1man/5man show. And yea, i'm a faceless ALT, because i have no interest to reveal myself in this trollforum anyway, too much ingame-history.
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.04 20:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. I have thought about this. But pretty much every WH I have stuck my head into has had a crew already set up and ready to gun anyone else down that comes in. I'll keep checking and hopefully I can find an empty one to move into.
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.04.04 21:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Jupix Originally by: Ordais 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) IMHO carebears from highsec don't go to 0.0 to make money. Like you said missions exist for that. They go there for the 0.0 "experience" or just a different playstyle or career for a change. If the majority of 0.0 is made less valuable, and big power players relinquish control over it, I'm all for it. This is because then, theoretically, more nullsec space would become inhabitable by more people than the let's-gank-for-lulz guys who currently inhabit NPC sov 0.0. If this were to happen, then I could, for example, start trading or manufacturing in 0.0, for 0.0 residents. <---- Making several billion a month, casually, solo, in 0.0 without botting, trading, manufacturing or exposing myself to a great deal of pvp in the middle of completely hostile space. Naivety is a terrible burden. You would do best to lose that.
Calfis Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2011.04.04 21:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Vantoth Like all of those out in 0.0 had to fight for it? Most of them just moved in and laid claim, never fought once. But that's OK, you go ahead and act like you fought tooth and nail for every scrap of space you or your alliance owns when you know that's not how it went down. According to the devs it's apparently been care-bear heaven out there and that's why they want to shake things up. I guess if the alliances had been doing any kind of real fighting CCP would not be taking the steps they are now. Speaking from personal experience yes, my former alliance had to fight for the space it held. You are right, moving into it initially was the easy part. It was holding it that turned out to be tough. Our enemies chose to withdraw from most of their space to avoid the r@pe-train coalition that had formed against them. So most of the vast amount of space we had claimed by the fall of 2010 was in fact handed to us. Then we had to fight the former owners of that space for months and months from the fall into the winter literally system by system. The steamroll coalition was gone and we found ourselves with weak pet alliances that our leadership decided to let die (should have propped them up imo) and by the end of the year the enemy had reached our doorstep. Impressively reclaiming much of the space that was lost in September. We fought them to a stalemate in Catch before the tide began to turn in their favor as it became apparent that our forces were exhausted by months of persistent fighting and the burn out rate among our pilots was high. At the same time the enemy showed no signs of suffering from similar attrition. In fact their fleet sizes became progressively larger and their large super capital fleet began appearing on the field again. After months of hard fighting it reached the breaking point. We could continue to resist and be shattered as an alliance or we could could withdraw and try to salvage whatever membership remained, leadership chose to withdraw because it became apparent our current neighbors would betray us and swallow us up from the other side. So please don't tell us we didn't fight for the space we had from that armchair of yours and demand to be given some piece of nullsec like its an entitlement.
sableye principle of motion	Posted - 2011.04.04 22:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Calfis Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Ordais 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways... Nice alt post. Who listens to an alt? Especially a no faced alt? He's right, you are not entitled to a piece of nullsec, if you want it you either have to fight for it or you have to fall in line with one of the established powers. They built up an organization and administer the space so why the outrage that you might have to get on one knee before you get ahead in 0.0? Like all of those out in 0.0 had to fight for it? Most of them just moved in and laid claim, never fought once. But that's OK, you go ahead and act like you fought tooth and nail for every scrap of space you or your alliance owns when you know that's not how it went down. According to the devs it's apparently been care-bear heaven out there and that's why they want to shake things up. I guess if the alliances had been doing any kind of real fighting CCP would not be taking the steps they are now. I can't think of many real old space holding allainces, I belive as a unit allainces have had to fight for all there space to get it or keep it, I can;t think of any group that has just waltze din and taken space since the drone regions were opend up and still they may have intiially taken it but they definatly had to fight for it, oldest allaince I know is red alliance and they have definatly thought for all there space. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
MaxxOmega Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.04.04 23:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Calfis So please don't tell us we didn't fight for the space we had from that armchair of yours and demand to be given some piece of nullsec like its an entitlement. The world is full of people who have earned nothing and contributed little but believe they are entitled to things simply because they need them, or in this case want them...
Dunkler Imperator N.F.H.P. Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.04.04 23:10:00 - [20] Edited by: Dunkler Imperator on 04/04/2011 23:10:36 There are lot's of small corps in null you just have to look. The ingame tools arn't realy good for that kinda thing. I would suggest using Dotlands to find a alliance That Has a few corps like these. The Send them an eve mail and see what they are looking for. Another suggestion is Merging with an existing Null corp. Preferably one that has lots of experience and is willing to help you. Don't expect people to go out of their way for you. Your a new player and can't offer much in the way of help. But You are an investment that will pay dividends. so be patient and keep trying. Dunkler
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.04 23:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Vantoth I know, JOIN AN ALLIANCE AND KOWTOW TO YOUR OVERLORDS! Quote E. European country party official, cca. 1980's "Yeah, go to America and become a slave to the capitalist slave drivers!" That's how you sound, sorry, and your impression is just about as close to the truth as that was back then. Have you actually joined an alliance (any one) to see how it actually is? How you're treated? Whether there's any kow-towing?
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.05 00:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. I would say WH space takes a bit more than 5 mil sp to be able to solo efficiently (assuming that is what the OP is talking about, soloing).
Thom Kohlsteiber	Posted - 2011.04.05 00:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. I have thought about this. But pretty much every WH I have stuck my head into has had a crew already set up and ready to gun anyone else down that comes in. I'll keep checking and hopefully I can find an empty one to move into. If you can't eject a tiny corp from W-Space, then you have no hope of holding on to any null sec.
Vicker Lahn'se Minmatar STRAG3S STRAG3S.INC	Posted - 2011.04.05 00:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Selinate Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. I would say WH space takes a bit more than 5 mil sp to be able to solo efficiently (assuming that is what the OP is talking about, soloing). This just isn't true. c1 anoms can be soloed easily in any decent pve battlecruiser fit.
Zi'Boo	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:15:00 - [25] If you really want to get a taste of 0.0 without getting into the big alliance politics, try some NPC 0.0 first. Depending on your corp logistical capabilities you may want to try either some closer to empire space, and easy to access (although with crap resources) like Syndicate, or if you're after better income under the nose of the big guys, you can try NPC Delve or Fountain (just to name a few I've had a chance to live in). However don't expect to just move in and get on with business, there's probably someone living there already or close by, so you'll have to fight for your right to stay there. Make sure you check the political situation in each region before you move in (you can start with CAOD, or find some more informational forum, no I won't point you to one ). After all this is Eve, nothing comes easy in here, or at least without doing a bit of home work...
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:19:00 - [26] Go to NPC space, learn the trade, then try for 0.0.
Selinate Amarr Red Water Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se Originally by: Selinate Originally by: Gertrude Sei Try WH space, its much better suited for small groups wanting to get out of HS. I would say WH space takes a bit more than 5 mil sp to be able to solo efficiently (assuming that is what the OP is talking about, soloing). This just isn't true. c1 anoms can be soloed easily in any decent pve battlecruiser fit. "decent" is unclear.... most would consider a "decent" bc pve fit to require over 5 mil sp...
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.04.05 01:33:00 - [28] As someone who had semi-friends in npc space and was in and out of that space, You will want some friends. At first if you and your corp just head down to a NPC system with a station, you will soon feel kinda trapped. unless the corp you are moving with already has a lot of people in it or be uber skilled in pvp and take on 5 vs 20.
Forever A Clone	Posted - 2011.04.05 03:33:00 - [29] So let's say you and a gang of 3 buddies get your own 0.0 system due to some sort of demented act of charity by ccp. Then a gang of 2 people want some space but hey, all the other space is taken up, so your space gets given to the smaller gang because, he'll, you're bigger than they are. Idiotic right? Every thread like this is idiotic. CCP don't have to divvy out space to individual weaklings, space is a privilege you have to earn and defend, not a right. Think before you speak.
Vardec Crom Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.04.05 04:07:00 - [30] Edited by: Vardec Crom on 05/04/2011 04:12:51 Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Calfis Originally by: Vantoth Originally by: Ordais 1. wrong assumption: you want a system for you alone? go to npc 0.0 or get some friends (no, you are not entitled to a place in 0.0 to your liking) 2. wrong assumption: making space less valuable gets ppl from highsec to 0sec (why go to crappy space if you can make mission-money?) next time, how about thinking it through a bit more before posting hm? Not that the forum is full of the same subject anyways... Nice alt post. Who listens to an alt? Especially a no faced alt? He's right, you are not entitled to a piece of nullsec, if you want it you either have to fight for it or you have to fall in line with one of the established powers. They built up an organization and administer the space so why the outrage that you might have to get on one knee before you get ahead in 0.0? Like all of those out in 0.0 had to fight for it? Most of them just moved in and laid claim, never fought once. But that's OK, you go ahead and act like you fought tooth and nail for every scrap of space you or your alliance owns when you know that's not how it went down. According to the devs it's apparently been care-bear heaven out there and that's why they want to shake things up. I guess if the alliances had been doing any kind of real fighting CCP would not be taking the steps they are now. I love when it's blatantly obvious people have no idea what they're talking about. First and foremost, this game has been out for 8 years now. Do you really think there was a big land grab and it's been stagnant ever since? No fighting? Check this out. As an example the NC is fighting desperately to save Geminate while being harassed by NCdot and friends from the west as we speak. I'm sure the trillions upon trillions of ISK destroyed and hundreds of supercap deaths are not considered "real fighting". The south is under attack by TEST/Goons and PL and is very volatile after the implosion of IT Alliance. Hundreds of alliances have attempted and failed to claim and hold space, it's a brutal battle and your ignorance truly shows when you say no one has had to fight for their space. Just watch the time lapse. CCP is making the anom changes because too much ISK is in the economy and they don't like that. They also don't like NAP's but they don't play their own game and don't realize anom changes won't do a damn thing about it. You believe you're entitled to your own little personal corner of 0.0 where you can carebear it up? Because that's certainly what it sounds like your intentions were. But OH, all these BIG BAD land grabbing alliances won't let you have it? HTFU, 0.0 empires are built with sweat and blood and LOTS AND LOTS of work, they earned their right to be there what did you do? You don't like it, do something about it. Delve and Querios are ripe for the taking, form your own alliance, organize the logistics and the war effort, and recruiting etc, then give it a go. If you fail, you certainly won't be the first, but without trying you have no right to complain. You can also join a corp within an alliance and be part of 0.0. No, you don't have to pay rent to be a member in a corp. That way you can see what it's like and this nonsense can stop.

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