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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 36 post(s)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 00:03:00 - [1] I am quite happy with how things turned out. Please, take your time to plug the problems. A couple of years will do nicely. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 00:16:00 - [2] Now, to be honest, this move is actually quite nice. Given how things were moving these past few days, I almost fully expected CCP to keep clamoring over the new forums and keep getting them broken and emergency-patched and so on and so forth. However, it seems they finally saw reason and did the right thing. It probably took quite a bit of ego restraining to make this move back, but it was the right thing to do. So, in a way, some kudos are in order. It could have been much worse. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 00:28:00 - [3] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Akita T Now, to be honest, this move is actually quite nice. Given how things were moving these past few days, I almost fully expected CCP to keep clamoring over the new forums and keep getting them broken and emergency-patched and so on and so forth. However, it seems they finally saw reason and did the right thing. It probably took quite a bit of ego restraining to make this move back, but it was the right thing to do. So, in a way, some kudos are in order. It could have been much worse. The major security issues aside? It wasn't just a small glitch. Putting back the old forums was a necessity, not like they had a choice. Let's get it right on this one; I love this game, and got more accounts than I should/what is healthy. I talk good about EVE with people I game with, etc. But this forum debacle, is possibly the biggest gamebreaking thing CCP done since boot.ini. Heads should roll and CCP should ask themselves; did we create a monster we couldn't control, or did we push out a product that wasn't finished? Knowing CCP, the latter seems the major culprit, but the first could very well be involved as well. And that's quite disturbing thoughts, for future development of this game. And to think boot.ini only affected a relatively small portion of the game's population... whereas the forums... well, you get the idea. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 00:49:00 - [4] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Calathea Sata Originally by: CCP Wrangler It has been an interesting weekend so far. Our shiny new forums havenÆt worked quite as expected and they have been going up and down a few times. We have opened up our trusted old forums for your posting pleasure and we will be keeping the new forums down until they can be sorted out. There will be more information on this on Monday. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you and we thank you for your patience and understanding. CCP needs to apologize for throwing out untested unfinished unpolished rubbish at customers as well, to a community that is so dedicated to your company's product and expecting nothing but excellence and deliverance, this is an insult. You have my sincere and personal apology and I also apologize on behalf of CCP. Security holes aside, how about an assurance that user feedback will be actually USED next time you ask us to test the forums ? Or what about making the new forums not just barely functional and somewhat secure, but actually a clear improvement over the current ones in every single way ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 02:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Sturmwolke Originally by: Copine Callmeknau Originally by: Akita T Security holes aside, how about an assurance that user feedback will be actually USED next time you ask us to test the forums ? Or what about making the new forums not just barely functional and somewhat secure, but actually a clear improvement over the current ones in every single way ? This The new forums should have everything the old forums have and more. Not a mixed bag of dubious features coupled with reduced functionality. Patience is not something you guys need to worry about here, we don't care if it gets released late so long as it's better, and that it WORKS when it gets released. It's not like the old ones are falling to bits, they'll do perfectly well until the new forums are polished to a satisfactory level. They're probably under a time constraint or internal roadmap that builds up to DUST514. Their grand vision is to integrate both communities under EVEGate, which may or may not back fire when the time comes, imo ... but we'll deal with it when the time comes. Good implementations can generally be identified by having met or surpassed what it replaces - measured from both internal tests and user feedback. The (temporarily defunct) new EVE forum did not meet these basic criterion. The user feedbacks were generally negative, based on the noise level it generated. I offer you, contrast that to how CCP implemented the beta Contracts Search ... note any difference? Depending on the workings inside CCP, yes the project leader's hand may be shortened due to lack of resources - but I highly doubt that based on the time they've had building it. All evidences (the ones which are public anyway) thus far points to massive incompetence in both the code architecture and decision making process. You'd typically be running a post-mortem on this after putting out the immediate fires, mainly to ensure that it is mitigated and never happens again by adopting (pro-actively) the learnings into an internal BKMs. Infact, large companies like Intel (for example) have an internal BKM database that serves as a sort of internal wiki for employees for all sorts of things. edit:clarity CCP needs to change its strategy of rolling out new shiny junk over polished features. That path leads to self-destruction in the long run. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 11:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Spyke BlackIce I usually keep my arse out of whine-fests, troll parades, and general rock throwing, but this fiasco warrants grabbing my pitchfork and joining the mob if only because of the fact that after the two test runs of the new forums, they were released not only with HUGE, wide-open security problems, but little if any of the testers' feedback was heeded. I took part in the first test run (unfortunately I couldn't find enough time due to RL issues to help with the second) but when the forums opened, I could only find a miniscule few examples of the user feedback actually being used. Why bother with tests CCP, if our input is thrown out and disregarded along with the garbage? It is becoming obvious that someone in upper management doesn't have a clue. They want their new toys - the way it was designed, regardless of flaws and lack of features - out the door and to hell with what the customer wants, needs, envisions, or finds lacking, and worse, to hell with the silly 'polished' idea. "Get it out so that we can move onto the next new toy and we'll finish fixing it later (maybe)", seems to be this person's (or persons') motto. I actually have a lot of respect for most of the dev teams at CCP, and I applaud their apology and acknowledgement of the problem here as well as their dropping back and punting the old forums into service again. Many companies (no cough S.O.E cough names here) would have taken the stoic, we-know-best-and-you-couldn't-grasp-the-issues route by simply reopening the old forums with a message along the lines of "Due to technical issues, we will be using the old forums until further notice." and that would be that. I'm not implying that the web team should not be tarred-and-feathered for this MAJOR coding ineptitude they called a forum, but I seriously believe the issue began and ended in the top echelon of management. Something this bad quite frankly should not have happened, not even in the devs' worse nightmares. The issue HAD to be a time/deadline/personnel squeeze. Plain and simple. Quoted it all because it bears repeating several times over. CCP needs to change its company leadership mindset. The notion that "new features sell, polished content doesn't" will be the doom of EVE if it persists much longer. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 13:32:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Sreegs My job is security therefore that's what I blog about. The reason we shut down the forums was security related. That aside, which version are you more comfortable using personally, this one or the "new" one ? And why ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 14:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Calathea Sata Originally by: Akita T Originally by: CCP Sreegs My job is security therefore that's what I blog about. The reason we shut down the forums was security related. That aside, which version are you more comfortable using personally, this one or the "new" one ? And why ? "I like the old one more, obviously, but I cannot say it because you guys will start taking my words as 'CCP's' and use it againt my company, and that will get me fired!" Well, duh _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 16:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2011 16:25:04 Originally by: Baihuigau To be honest im actually liking skreegs more and more [...snip...] CCP Sreegs being a pretty decent guy and trying his best to sort out problems still doesn't make "CCP, the enterprise" any less exasperating considering what's happening nowadays. Originally by: Calathea Sata [bigsnip] Quote: CCP Sreegs has some explainations to do. The answer is simple : his job is to respond to security issues, no ? EDIT : in after Sreegs Back on topic : Sreegs, security issues and your job title and all those things aside... ...which version are you more comfortable using personally, this one right here or the "new" (now closed) one ? And why ? _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 16:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2011 16:29:31 Originally by: Baihuigau Originally by: Akita T CCP Sreegs being a pretty decent guy and trying his best to sort out problems still doesn't make "CCP, the enterprise" any less exasperating considering what's happening nowadays. I agree with you on that akita, to be honest i just dont know anything we could do to change that, in the past month i have read alot of stuff about internal procedures of ccp mostly from disgruntled employees around the net and it does paint a picture of management being rather incompetent and full of themselves, but thats not anything new when companies get big. Feel free to evemail me some links to the type of stories you mention if you think posting them in public would be a big nono for you. Originally by: CCP Sreegs Originally by: Akita T Back on topic : Sreegs, security issues and your job title and all those things aside... ...which version are you more comfortable using personally, this one right here or the "new" (now closed) one ? And why ? I like... oh wait I see what you're doing... Seriously that's a loaded question with no right answer. :evil grin: _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 17:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Jon Taggart Will have to wait until the forums are back up. The link to the test forums provided here does not work. https://testforums.evegate.com/ -> "The page cannot be displayed because an internal server error has occurred." _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 17:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Sullen Skoung why do we need to send you evidence? Because, apparently, the QA team is not. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 17:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Sullen Skoung you gotta read all the quotes lol Yeah, I know, I was purposefully ignoring that line of the argument because it's pointless. You are arguing that CCP received warning of it before it happened (which CCP is not actually denying), CCP Sreegs is arguing that nobody who JUST reported it and did nothing else would get banned. Those two arguments are not incompatible. CCP could have been warned, the other guy could have been showing off, CCP might have not reacted quite as fast as we hoped, the guy might have been banned. I'm not saying it's what happened, but it's probably what happened. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 17:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Sullen Skoung no, I was saying that Sreegs said to prove such we needed to send evidenve then tells us we dont need to send it cause he has all the logs That's not what he said Train "evasive statement reading" to L4. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.10 20:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Jon Taggart those who know what film this is from Roooonery... soooo roooonery.... _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 12:02:00 - [16] Funny (to me) translated and slightly adapted tidbit from my brother (who's a .Net/C#/whatever codemonkey)... if this is not accurate, I have no clue... "I don't get it, how did they manage to make the signature f-up, in .Net you have the .HTMLEncode() method, and then everything is magically secure from cross-site scripting. That's all they had to do. 1 line. Also, .Net has built-in safeguards for cross site scripting, which you specifically need to disable by hand... guess what? they probably effin' did, because otherwise you couldn't enter HTML code in text boxes. HTMLEncode(), that's all they needed to do, as in, REALLY. Item.Signature.Text = HTMLEncode(Item.Signature.Text) ... or something like that, and that's it. ... from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/w3te6wfz.aspx ... HTML encoding makes sure that text is displayed correctly in the browser and not interpreted by the browser as HTML. For example, if a text string contains a less than sign (<) or greater than sign (>), the browser would interpret these characters as the opening or closing bracket of an HTML tag. When the characters are HTML encoded, they are converted to the strings < and >, which causes the browser to display the less than sign and greater than sign correctly. HttpServerUtility.HtmlEncode() ..." _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 12:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Grimpak wait, are you telling me that this the exact same **up as on boot.ini but in a different place? It would appear so, at least as far as signatures are concerned... Originally by:** Tippia àand what's even more fun is that they're overdoing the same translation in the normal post edit boxes, where text is encoded on the fly so you can't even use HTML entities to insert special characters (which is yet another reason for the slowdown in the post editor). As soon as you enter "&", it gets translated into "&" and entering "×" to get a + sign only prints the original × you entered. These forums do it much better: the translation is done when you click post, and entities you've entered manually are preserved and come out as the special characters you wanted to display. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 12:28:00 - [18] Well, it's not QUITE the same, just somewhat similar. Still same logic, a trivial error. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 12:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Grimpak granted not really the same but the type of mistake is basically the same. The boot.ini thing could have been an honest mistake, this one however, not so much (like Tippia pointed out, they do obsessively sanitize it in some other place). So, meh. _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 13:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Miilla How about putting some real content into the forums instead of tears? Content is soooo mainstream... /emote adjust horn-rimmed glasses _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 22:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Any idea when the Monday Devblog is coming out? Monday, April 18 ? _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 23:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod link lol I dont see it in the info portal or does it take time to get put in there? http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=898 _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.04.11 23:19:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Sreegs Originally by: Jada Maroo It lacks an overly optimistic estimate of when the new forums will make their grand return. Not my department. :) Which one, the hopelessly optimistic and obviously unattainable estimate department (or, as you probably call it, PR and/or Marketing), or the forum coding one ? _ CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE.

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