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Ruining EVE... making it no fun and why content is the solution

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Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.	Posted - 2011.04.13 02:31:00 - [31] Originally by: xxxak Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If you have a real job, you can just sell PLEX for ISK. If your implicit income in EVE from farming was higher than your income from your job, you don't have a real job. Learn2Read. You edited out the minor claim I was responding to.
xxxak Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.04.13 02:44:00 - [32] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Originally by: xxxak Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If you have a real job, you can just sell PLEX for ISK. If your implicit income in EVE from farming was higher than your income from your job, you don't have a real job. Learn2Read. You edited out the minor claim I was responding to. More specific?
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.04.13 04:24:00 - [33] I agree that the anomaly changes run counterproductive to what their stated goals were. This is a spaceship game, yet we have relatively few ships added in the last 2 years. That to me is the problem. Different ship types with slightly different bonuses, resists, etc opens up new tactical/strategic choices. To me every year should introduce dozens of new ships and mods. To me allowing technology to balance things out through such new items is better than nerfing.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.04.13 05:03:00 - [34] Plebs who haven't learned how to make ISK should fly drakes and leave the expensive ships to us rich guys.
Stinko McCoy	Posted - 2011.04.13 05:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Stinko McCoy on 13/04/2011 05:13:35 Reason the old belt ratting was enough was because less people inhabited the space. Once all systems could produce great isk, alliances recruited more people, to counter the recruitment of the other teams more people, etc. So you will have people disappear back into empire, and then we'll hear these "pvpers" who are _itching about people _itching about the 0.0 nerf _itch about their lack of targets and how it all falls on the "carebears" shoulders for not dying in droves to their enorm-ass epeen skills.
P42ALPHA	Posted - 2011.04.13 05:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Plebs who haven't learned how to make ISK should fly drakes and leave the expensive ships to us rich guys. Like that Test guys said. Drake, the new rifter. lol
Ambassador Helios	Posted - 2011.04.13 06:31:00 - [37] Edited by: Ambassador Helios on 13/04/2011 06:33:00 Seems like the OP is simply stating that you take more risks with your income if you have a stable in-game income. Most games have a moderately entertaining way of obtaining money. More money, more fights, more fun. I don't understand why people are arguing against that. I believe we can all agree grinding ISK in EVE is relatively boring. In addition, we all have different preferences in gameplay and corp choices... and if there is a significant percentage of people who are not having fun in a game (which seems to be the case), there is an issue which needs to be resolved regardless. Just my 2 cents. Edit: Please note I said "stable" income... not "more". I am assuming other players like myself pursue one avenue (missioning, mining ect) and become bored and just stop. Then the PvPing stops because you can no longer predict what you can afford to lose without a reliable income.
m3rr	Posted - 2011.04.13 06:31:00 - [38] If people want to pvp they are just going to pvp in frigates. This thread is dumb!
Helixios Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.13 07:41:00 - [39] Originally by: m3rr If people want to pvp they are just going to pvp in frigates. This thread is dumb! I welcome ANYONE who wants to PVP against me in frigates, save perhaps a CovOps that's just going to sit in system and waste his subscription. - Battle Dust Proposal
xxxak Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.04.13 07:47:00 - [40] Originally by: m3rr If people want to pvp they are just going to pvp in frigates. This thread is dumb! Actually, you must be the ard. No one is going to PvP in frigates. People PvP to win, not to sit on their own dog's chest.

m3rr	Posted - 2011.04.13 08:04:00 - [41] Originally by: xxxak Originally by: m3rr If people want to pvp they are just going to pvp in frigates. This thread is dumb! Actually, you must be the ard. No one is going to PvP in frigates. People PvP to win, not to sit on their own dog's chest. Maybe when you are in a carebear alliance like MH
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.04.13 09:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Gustav Knuttsen Originally by: Lady Spank Real content in eve should be provided by the playerbase, not CCP. Muhahaha what content ? 3D models ? Missions ? Plexes ? Or maybe Incarna ? BIG LOL for you sister hahaha /me is starting to model new station in 3dsmax !!! Anyone for texturing ? Need some help here ! Im making playerbased content. LOL.. ppl are stupid You're an idiot. Also, Hi. I make content. The largest player run event in MMO-land ring a bell?
Gustav Knuttsen	Posted - 2011.04.13 10:30:00 - [43] Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Gustav Knuttsen Originally by: Lady Spank Real content in eve should be provided by the playerbase, not CCP. Muhahaha what content ? 3D models ? Missions ? Plexes ? Or maybe Incarna ? BIG LOL for you sister hahaha /me is starting to model new station in 3dsmax !!! Anyone for texturing ? Need some help here ! Im making playerbased content. LOL.. ppl are stupid You're an idiot. Also, Hi. I make content. The largest player run event in MMO-land ring a bell? You're an idiot.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2011.04.13 13:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Helicity Boson Also, Hi. I make content. The largest player run event in MMO-land ring a bell? Nope.
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.04.13 14:27:00 - [45] The carebear tears are delicious. Originally by: Lady Spank Cap Recharger II's should be 25m isk again. Covert-Ops cloaks should be 80m isk again. etc... I liked paying 5 mil per Hammerhead II also. Basically, I don't see why people are whining. ISK is so much easier to come by these days that it isn't even funny. If you are going to be little carebears, try not to be as incompetent at it as you are at PvP. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Vantoth Gallente Master of None	Posted - 2011.04.13 14:58:00 - [46] Originally by: El'Niaga I agree that the anomaly changes run counterproductive to what their stated goals were. This is a spaceship game, yet we have relatively few ships added in the last 2 years. That to me is the problem. Different ship types with slightly different bonuses, resists, etc opens up new tactical/strategic choices. To me every year should introduce dozens of new ships and mods. To me allowing technology to balance things out through such new items is better than nerfing. Looking at all the fighting that is not ganks it seems the best tactic & strategy was to blob your enemy into submission. SO new ships with new stats do squat for anything other than PVE or maybe 1v1 pvp IF you can find it and it is not a gank.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.13 17:23:00 - [47] Lots of talk on the subject so far, however do a price trend on PLEX to get the real story. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Shelob Pippen Caldari Dark Shadow Industries Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:21:00 - [48] Gotta love CCP's Logic. Nerf 0.0 anomalies Regular 0.0 players are not making Isk to buy PLEX. in order to keep account current, regular player eather quits or pays 15$ for sub. CCP makes more money. Play or Quit. There is no try...... Shelob Pippen
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 13/04/2011 18:24:11 Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Gustav Knuttsen Originally by: Lady Spank Real content in eve should be provided by the playerbase, not CCP. Muhahaha what content ? 3D models ? Missions ? Plexes ? Or maybe Incarna ? BIG LOL for you sister hahaha /me is starting to model new station in 3dsmax !!! Anyone for texturing ? Need some help here ! Im making playerbased content. LOL.. ppl are stupid You're an idiot. Also, Hi. I make content. The largest player run event in MMO-land ring a bell? QFT (on both points). "Content" in the context of this discussion, is refering to "things to do in EVE". The vast majority of that should be (and is) player created and driven. Pretty new ships and scenery is not content, they are game elements. Nice to have mind you, but not what drives the game or makes it entertaining for more than a couple of weeks. Post nerf 0.0 is "STILL" far, far more profitable than it was when the only income source for the common pilot was belt ratting. Yet people still lived and built empires, started territory wars, and generally carried on with life in 0.0. If you can't currently make decent money in even the worst area of 0.0 without resorting to jump cloning to empire to run lvl 4 missions, you are completely inept. Without running the numbers, at a glance it looks like things are balanced this way. Worst 0.0 areas are slightly less lucurative than average level 4 mission income. Best 0.0 areas are slightly more lucurative than average level 4 mission income. One last point, inflated levels of ISK in EVE do mean somewhat more combat will occur on an individual basis. Primarily because the combat then becomes less expensive, and also less meaningful. As you said, combat losses make the fight (and the game itself) challenging and meaningful. Easier does not equal better, otherwise we'd all be playing Hello Kitty online. On an alliance level the opposite holds true. Plentiful levels of ISK for all means less incentive for conflict. Individual pilots personal wallets don't enter into that equation in any meaningful way. What you are left with is a lot of fat, lazy 0.0 pilots screwing around in completely meaningless zero risk small scale altercations, and very little in the way of large scale and meaningful conflict. Now I'm all for going out for the occasional mindless roam, but if nothing is risked it loses meaning and rapidly becomes boring instead of exciting and fun. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:25:00 - [50] Rangaaaaaarrrrr. I'm just curious how those numbers work out for calculating population densities per system. As in optimal amount of players per system such that they make enough isk to warrant the increased danger compared to highsec lvl4s on an alt or JC. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?

Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Rangaaaaaarrrrr. I'm just curious how those numbers work out for calculating population densities per system. As in optimal amount of players per system such that they make enough isk to warrant the increased danger compared to highsec lvl4s on an alt or JC. Heh, that would be pretty difficult to assess accurately for two reasons. 1: It would depend on each players level of greed vs. competence... both of which will vary greatly. 2: It is sometimes difficult to get across to theory crafters that most regions of 0.0 are actually safer than Empire. Now that alliances have more of an incentive to invade each others space that situation will hopefully change. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.13 18:55:00 - [52] How about a pretty chart with error bars? Pwetty pwease? -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:00:00 - [53] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 13/04/2011 19:00:41 Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki How about a pretty chart with error bars? Pwetty pwease? I'll go you one better. Give me a pretty chart that says otherwise. I would think it would be easy to come by. After all, the current hysteria has to be backed up with some sort of facts right? Right??? ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:02:00 - [54] Facts?! Bother me not with such petty details. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:08:00 - [55] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 13/04/2011 19:11:18 Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Facts?! Bother me not with such petty details. If you think about it, we really aren't talking about fewer anomalies being generated, or respawning at a slower rate after being completed. We are simply talking about "some" of the anomalies being generated not being as lucurative from an isk/hour point of view. The same number of pilots per system will be kept busy running them, just the isk/hour will decrease a bit for some of those pilots. Edit: Absolutely not trying to pick a fight with you, just trying to keep things in perspective. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:15:00 - [56] Yeah. I would still say that average income has been decreased. That should theoretically decrease active pilots in systems which I'd view as a bad thing. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Grohalmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:25:00 - [57] You could always make isk, you know, when you are pvping. It is possible. My corp has some very rich dudes that make all their money through pvp. EXAMPLE Sure, its not as dependable as sanctums or level 4's, and it has a tremendous amount of risk. But EVE was never made to be easy and it definitely trumps those two in terms of fun factor.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:26:00 - [58] For most ops I fly a space priest which can on occasion make isk if it gets blowed up. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Yeah. I would still say that average income has been decreased. That should theoretically decrease active pilots in systems which I'd view as a bad thing. I get what you are saying, and it is valid. I think it will boil down to decision time for those pilots that: A: Had the clout to hog the Sanctums (at least in part) in a given system. B: Refuse to consider taking any kind of hit to their ISK/hour/effort ratio. They will have to decide if it is worth it to take the nick to their income for the convenience of staying "home" and being available for system defense/ops (if they bothered with that sort of thing), or whether they feel they can make significantly better isk on a level 4 jump clone/alt in Empire (the way they used to). Of course this will be a very personal decision, based on the resources and training they have. However, if they do opt to earn their money in Empire, somebody else will take their place running the anoms that are available. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.


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