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MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:50:00 - [1] This is it, I'm done with FW. it was my favorite addition to the game. and you guys showed some support to us when you let us fight in the alliance tournament. it was cool too see how well the minmatar militia were able to do. it was FUN, and it showed, hey we care. it might sound sad but it was kinda a good reason to come back and play FW I've been gone a while However last tournament a dev just said something like "we didn't plan soon enough so this year FW will be left out, sorry we'll try to see if we can get them in next year" and here we are , 2-3 years now since you let FW in the alliance tournament. and I don't see any word of it. : ( you might of been able to pull some PvP back into it. it was a way for non-alliance players that are still good to have a way to get into the alliance tournament. You would just have to balance FW and you would have people piling into FW trying to get kills and points the 2 months before AT, just to get to fight on the big screen. what a cool idea, give the small guys a way to fight in AT9. So this is half whine, and half question. Are there any plans to come through on the promise of letting FW take part in the alliance tournament? there are still enough players in each to make teams
Kumq uat Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.17 21:51:00 - [2] I got a crazy idea. How about you get a group of people together and put them into this thing called a corp. Then you can take this corp and make an alliance. Then you can try for a slot! Crazy idea I know, but it just might work. I'm sure FW won't miss you for a month or two. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author
Hildre Jagerblitzen	Posted - 2011.04.18 07:44:00 - [3] Edited by: Hildre Jagerblitzen on 18/04/2011 07:44:42 Feel free to ignore Kumquat, he is blatantly being a troll on this topic. He clearly has no idea what Faction Warfare is like. There is a topic already active on the subject, here ya go... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1494039 Yes, we can all drop our corps and reform into Alliances, yadda yadda yadda. What Kumquat isn't getting is that the question is primarily aimed at CCP developers, as to how THEY feel about Faction Warfare, and what the harm would be in treating the 24th Imperial crusade, or Tribal Liberation Force, as an alliance and allow them to vie for a slot in the tournament.
Takakura Hirohito	Posted - 2011.04.18 12:57:00 - [4] This is Alliance Tournament 9. It was strange factional warfare players were ever let in. Want to participate? Join/create an alliance.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.18 13:55:00 - [5] The thing is, back then FW was a new and exciting partially implemented feature ! That's why you got your tourney slots, CCP wanted to draw attention to it. now it's an old and neglected partially implemented feature, so if they draw attention to it by featuring it in tournament more people might notice how awful and neglected it is also nobody loves you because when you did take part you failed hard
Hildre Jagerblitzen	Posted - 2011.04.18 16:06:00 - [6] If I had a million isk for every time I heard the same old "get an alliance noob" response to this question, we could bribe Goons into changing just about anything we wanted to about Eve. Same goes for "FW was let in once, they sucked, so no point in trying again". Also fail logic and an old argument. The militia is going to keep asking the question till we hear a developer perspective on the issue. What militia objects to is being forced to put on a disguise in order to vie for a slot in the tournament, based on a negative stereotype that is SERIOUSLY outdated. Alliance members can drop corps, reform, and rename, and enter the tournament, all while maintaining blues with their original alliance, and their gameplay won't be affected. For militia - dropping corps, merging corps, forming an alliance, disrupts everything from simple day-to-day gameplay all the way to a vital source of income in the form of FW missions. Militia pilots don't want to forsake their role in the eve universe for months just to be able to have a shot at testing their talent against Nullsec pew "champs", and they arguably shouldn't have to. The answer is still simple - treat the 4 militias as Alliances and simply allow them to pay the fees, and enlist a team without all the pretense of reforming structurally so they can be treated as legitimate to other players, regardless of their talent. We are still waiting for an intelligent response from either the community, or the developers, as to why that isn't feasible. In the meantime, we welcome the corps willing to talk big to come out and play in our neck of the woods. Especially Guiding Hand Social Club - cause lets be honest. You're trying to call out militia as fail when many top Minmatar militia corps have gotten more juicy kills in the last few months than you have in your corp's lifetime. The militia is a core of players dedicated to PvP, we get bored if our opposing militia isn't putting up a good fight (The Amarr need to bring back the pain....they've been slacking) so we welcome ****y invaders who want to hate on us. Once again, bring it. Prove to us we don't belong.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.18 16:11:00 - [7] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 18/04/2011 16:16:06 See this is why you shouldn't post kumquat, you made the FW people angry at us ;[ BTW; you would only need to be in an alliance from may 15th to june 20th, barely more than a month, so you're exaggerating how much of a commitment it would be. Edit; also all my responses have been quite intelligent on this topic unlike kumquat's ! We don't want your four crummy teams in the alliance, you suck and the slots wasted on your awful teams could potentially go to good teams instead. YOU DON'T DESERVE AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULES FW != ALLIANCES, IT'S AN ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT - GET IT ? YOU KNOW, FOR ALLIANCES LOL You got an exception once, you failed hard and as a result you didn't get more exceptions, simple as that.
Outouchmatralala	Posted - 2011.04.18 17:14:00 - [8] faction warfare does not deserve a place in the alliance tourny
Kumq uat Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.18 17:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 18/04/2011 16:16:06 See this is why you shouldn't post kumquat, you made the FW people angry at us ;[ Do you think sending them a fruit basket can salvage this PR nightmare I have brought upon us? --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author
Toight Tigah	Posted - 2011.04.18 18:29:00 - [10] so create an alliance for all your FW buddies to join for a month to play in the tourney. name it "faction warfare alliance" or something else witty.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.18 19:48:00 - [11] No worries about PR issues, trash talk doesn't really mean much to me in the end. I simply find it amusing to see the same stuff said over and over again. I'm not even upset with anyone (even Kumquat!) as your statements continue to be hollow until tested. Since members of Guiding Hand Social Club are adamant that militia = fail, I will continue to leave the challenge open for your corp to test its mettle against ours, in a reasonable contest. Unless you have a killboard stashed away I haven't seen, our corporation just flat out has more PvP experience than yours, and it would be fun to see who's worthy of tourney participation on talent alone. Your pick - 3 on 3, 5 on 5, 10 on 10, whatever you like, wherever you like, I'd absolutely love Tyrrax, Kumquat, and some of your friends to bring a gang, and my corporation will bring a gang and we'll have it out. Put your bullets where your mouth is. Militia = fail is subjective and difficult to quantitatively evaluate, since even killboards are simply a record of time spent in combat, not necessarily pilot skill. Hence why having a chance to prove ourselves in a controlled environment is important to us, and hence the multiple threads about the tournament issue. Non-militia pilots can continue to keep saying "form an alliance and shuddup" all they want, this thread continues to be about asking the developers why FW was removed from the tournament, and why talk was made about allowing militias to return, and has not been revisited.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.18 20:25:00 - [12] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 18/04/2011 20:27:49 Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen Since members of Guiding Hand Social Club are adamant that militia = fail, I will continue to leave the challenge open for your corp to test its mettle against ours, in a reasonable contest. Unless you have a killboard stashed away I haven't seen, our corporation just flat out has more PvP experience than yours, and it would be fun to see who's worthy of tourney participation on talent alone. We do have a killboard, but it's not particularly impressive since this has never been a "real" active corp, it's more of a bittervet retirement and roleplaying community that sells espionage/griefing services. We tend to play on our alts, infiltrating and whatnot. That said I'm pretty sure I have more PVP and FC experience than anyone in your corporation (and better experience since most of it was in 0.0) having played off and on since 2003 and your top killers having been around for about 6 years less.. Any of your guys FCed 300 person gangs or coordinated and commanded 2 of the first 10 supercapital kills ? We've already proven we're an above average alliance tournament team worthy of participation - having made it to semi-finals twice in the past and quarter finals in the two most recent tournaments. More importantly we've been consistently entertaining, none of this applies to any team FW has fielded in the past.. The tournament isn't just about being active in empire newbie fighting and getting on lots of drake mails, theorycrafting, experienced guesswork, strategy, tactics, skillpoints and ISK are also important. Quote: Your pick - 3 on 3, 5 on 5, 10 on 10, whatever you like, wherever you like, I'd absolutely love Tyrrax, Kumquat, and some of your friends to bring a gang, and my corporation will bring a gang and we'll have it out. Put your bullets where your mouth is. I'll think about it. Wouldn't really be fair though since our massive skillpoints e-penii blot out the sun ;[ Quote: Militia = fail is subjective and difficult to quantitatively evaluate, since even killboards are simply a record of time spent in combat, not necessarily pilot skill. Hence why having a chance to prove ourselves in a controlled environment is important to us, and hence the multiple threads about the tournament issue. Do please explain why you deserve to be exempt from the rules ?
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:43:00 - [13] Thank you Tyrrax, for continuing this debate. I'm happy to answer your questions as I am happy to clear up some common misunderstandings about Faction Warfare. I'd rather make the most of this opportunity than let it turn into an epeen battle, we can have that ourselves on Tranquility so we dont clutter the forums. I respect that you are an old pilot, with many more skill points than me and my corp mates. You are also absolutely right in that none of our corp members have led 300 ship fleets to take down supercarriers. However, this also means you are old enough to understand the pilot skill set in small engagements of 20 ships or less per side, is distinct from large triple-digit fleets involving capital ships. I have indeed fought in battles the size you speak of, and it just isn't the same as smaller gang warfare, where ALL the members of the fleet have to think independently, make snap decisions, and be able to perform FC duty if the leader is killed. These latter traits are WHY the dedicated militia have continued to live for years on the fringe rather than move to 0.0 space, because we simply enjoy the ready availability of this type of combat we love. Many of our best pilots are those who have gone and spent time in 0.0 and returned because they didn't enjoy that type of warfare. Simply put, the matches in the tournament resemble day-to-day militia skirmishes (Down to the same ship types used) more more closely than epic capital fleet warfare, so our lack of experience in the mega-battle department isn't very relevant to our ability to perform in what is really a small gang PvP tournament. To repeat another point I've made before, since you accurately state that skill points matter, the argument that militia failed years ago so it will fail again just doesn't make sense. It may be perceived (and may be true) that CCP abandoned Faction Warfare, but that does not mean that its core player base did. We are still here, and we have many more skill points now and thousands more battles under our belt. Dropping militia to form an alliance changes and hampers our game play in a way that it does not to Alliances - you can simply enroll a Dystopia team and go about your business in the days leading up to the tournament. Security status, income sources, where pilots can travel, standings, diplomacy, and even simple role play all are disrupted by us leaving the militia. This may be seen as militia pilots demanding privileged (implying an advantage) treatment, when really we feel we are asking for the same ease of entry as any alliance pilot currently enjoys. You are also absolutely correct in saying we could obey the rules, drop corps and militia, and reform temporarily to enter the tournament. But MotherMoon asked why the rules are the way they are - something only the developers can answer themselves. This thread continues to exist as a request to the developers to give us feedback on how THEY feel about militia entering the tournament, and whether they ever intend to explore the idea they put forth themselves years past. Maybe they feel as you do, Tyrrax, that faction warfare has not changed, grown, or improved from its infancy as a sub-community in eve, and thus is not worth investing resources in or giving publicity to. I want to hear it from them, not from pilots trying to speak FOR them. If you or anyone else has questions about how the nature of Faction Warfare combat itself, the territory in plays out in, the ships we fly, or the types of pilots who enjoy this "dead" feature, I'm happy to field them.
Seldarine Minmatar Boats 'n Hoes WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2011.04.19 00:24:00 - [14] Edited by: Seldarine on 19/04/2011 00:24:29 letting faction warfare into the tournament would be like letting your local paintball club into world war 2 ______________________________ Seldarine
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.19 01:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Seldarine letting faction warfare into the tournament would be like letting your local paintball club into world war 2 Ha ha ha. Funny thing is, this has nothing to do in the end with whether militia is worthy to fight or not. That's just a side tangent, which anyone can hit me up on tranquility to prove. The issue on the table really isn't about whether militias are good enough, as nothing is stopping them from dropping militia, forming a temporary alliance, and winning a randomly drawn slot in the tourney. Tournament entrance itself is not determined by "who's good enough", It's determined by "what banner will you fly under", which is what we take issue with.
Unfamed II NPC Corporation	Posted - 2011.04.19 12:22:00 - [16] FW players are bad, they don't deserve a spot in AT. -b
Akama Lowe	Posted - 2011.04.19 13:24:00 - [17] That's hot garbage at best. The militia is more than capable of fielding a team that can hold it's own. The problem lies in the mechanics of the current AT rules and lack of militia alliances. The only way for participation is to drop militia all together, this seems like a major hassle for a community that is based on pvp and not farming null complexes.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.19 14:29:00 - [18] Major hassle ? Seriously ? It's 35 days - and the alliance costs 1 billion ISK Bu friggin Hu. (you can probably just borrow one easily enough, not like there's any shortage of alliances out there) I'm sure the militias have a lot of very active and in some cases talented pvpers, I suspect lack of skillpoints will be an issue tho - more importantly the apparent lack of commitment, if you're not willing to take a break from FW for a month then you don't deserve to take part. You should be organizing right now, finding pilots for your team - not whining on forums about not receiving preferential treatment.
Unfamed II Caldari NPC Corporation Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.19 14:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Major hassle ? Seriously ? It's 35 days - and the alliance costs 1 billion ISK Bu friggin Hu. (you can probably just borrow one easily enough, not like there's any shortage of alliances out there) I'm sure the militias have a lot of very active and in some cases talented pvpers, I suspect lack of skillpoints will be an issue tho - more importantly the apparent lack of commitment, if you're not willing to take a break from FW for a month then you don't deserve to take part. You should be organizing right now, finding pilots for your team - not whining on forums about not receiving preferential treatment. Spot on. Now where is the +rep butan? -b
Toight Tigah	Posted - 2011.04.19 18:49:00 - [20] If its such a major hassle, why bother participating? sounds like you just want everything made easy for you. Since not everyone who wants to get in the tournament will do so (limited slots), why not leave it to those alliances willing to put forth the time and effort of dealing with the "hassle" of the tournament. If you really wanted to play, there is a solution. If thats too much of a hassle, leave it to those who obviously want to participate more. per your comment of "non fw people saying the same thing" well...dont ask questions you already know the answer to if you dont want to hear said answer.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.19 23:36:00 - [21] Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen on 19/04/2011 23:45:20 What I really just don't understand is all the hostility over a question that once again, was aimed at developers. Any pilot can ask any question of CCP they want, whether its about tournament rules or why they can't have pink rifters. Doesn't mean CCP will respond, but its every pilot's right to ask. They brought it up, some of us are simply curious if they've given it any thought. In the meantime, there has been this hilarious vehement backlash against us for even bringing the issue up. Half the responses are "militia sux" (which is off-topic) and "stop ****ing and quit FW for a month". Which we certainly could. But guess what, WE SIMPLY WANT TO ASK CCP NICELY. NOT YOU. Anyone can enter the tournament. Whether we belong is irrelevant. CCP does not count skill points and does not ban militia pilots, or any other band of failpilots. If you guys want the tourney to be all l33ts only, start a new thread about the selection process and discuss it there. As it stands, anyone can apply, and they draw names. Militia pilots are the only ones in New Eden who have their game play disrupted in order to participate. Asking CCP about the possibility* of giving us the same access as anyone else is completely reasonable. Asking CCP about any feature of the game that is annoying is completely reasonable. The ridiculous trolling and off-topic whining about uppity militias is totally unnecessary. Its a simple question, for Chribba's sake.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.20 00:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 20/04/2011 00:22:58 Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen What I really just don't understand is all the hostility over a question that once again, was aimed at developers. It's a public forum, so unsurprisingly your open letter to the devs is going to get replies and opinions - RABBLE RABBLE. Quote: Anyone can enter the tournament. Whether we belong is irrelevant. CCP does not count skill points and does not ban militia pilots, or any other band of failpilots. If you guys want the tourney to be all l33ts only, start a new thread about the selection process and discuss it there. As it stands, anyone can apply, and they draw names. Nobody is saying it's l33ts only, nor is anyone saying having 138 million SP makes you leet. (I sure as hell don't consider myself to be leet) You don't NEED tons of skillpoints to win matches, it just helps. "newbies" that actually take it seriously and are committed to doing well are more than welcome in the tournament as far as I'm concerned. However, judging by your questions to CCP you don't take it seriously enough to take a 35 day break from standard gameplay and thus would more than likely field an awful team - this is why people are hostile to you, we don't want teams in that'll just waste a slot and provide no entertainment to the viewers and no challenge to other competitors. Quote: Militia pilots are the only ones in New Eden who have their game play disrupted in order to participate. Bullcrap - I for one left Pandemic Legion 2 months before I thought tourney might start just in case CCP used the r etarded rule from last time about having to be in alliance 2 months before tourney started, this means I've missed out on tons of titan and supercarrier kills languishing in a mostly inactive corp ;[ I'm sure there are lots of people switching corps and putting their corps in alliances when they wouldn't otherwise - just to take part, being in a militia doesn't make you a unique little snowflake as far as gameplay disruption is concerned.
Shiwan Khan Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.04.20 09:35:00 - [23] While I don't think faction warfare should be allowed, they wouldn't make it through the 5 person qualifications this year anyway so I guess the argument is moot. ____________________________________________ AEKDB
Akama Lowe	Posted - 2011.04.20 14:38:00 - [24] I don't think that is the case at all. Low Sec pvp is much more to the scale of the tourney. There are no 300 man alpha, hellcat, or brofist fleets flying the low sec pipes. What you will find are gangs of 15-20 the norm. How often does this occur in null? How often have you gotten solo kills? I'd wager that the pilots that stand out in FW are much better than the rank and file drones that participate in null sov warfare. Just because you have a bloated killboard, because of capital and titan kills, doesn't translate to small gang ability. The stellar pilots of the Gal and Minnie militia, i'm not claiming to be one of this caste, consistently bloody NC, Goons, and the other null alliances that take fleets of comparable size into lowsec.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.20 15:34:00 - [25] People say that a lot, but I'm not sure how true it is - small scale warfare in lowsec and 0.0 is very different from the tournament, but of course it depends on what kind of strategy / lineup you're going with. If I had to choose between a supercapital FC or the most prolific lowsec pvper in the game I'd choose the FC every time.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.04.20 17:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk People say that a lot, but I'm not sure how true it is - small scale warfare in lowsec and 0.0 is very different from the tournament, but of course it depends on what kind of strategy / lineup you're going with. Agreed. It would be pretty unusual for an enemy militia will put forth a balanced fleet with the same number of ships as yours, line up in a specific area and a scheduled time, and only begin shooting when a referee says so. Other than that, you see the exact same ships, and same combat tactics (with bombs being the exception) as you would in the tournament. No one's flying anything in the tourney that the militias aren't fielding on a regular basis. Other noticeable differences would be that lowsec (as well as nullsec) pilots use skill implants, boosters, and faction mods, all banned from the tourney. Also, Akama wasn't talking about supercap FC's, clearly they've put their dues in, he was talking about rank and file nullsec fleet pilots. The size and scope of engagements means less comm usage except by the FC, less independent thinking, and targets called by name order when there's a ridiculous amount of one ship type. Thus, easier in practice to fly in larger fleets than smaller engagements where the quick thinking and manual flying skill of every pilot matters. The case could be made its easier to train a noob to operate an Abaddon well in a megafleet than to be effective in a Sentinel for small gang work.
Cap Tyrian Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.20 23:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 18/04/2011 16:16:06 FW != ALLIANCES, IT'S AN ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT - GET IT ? YOU KNOW, FOR ALLIANCES LOL "real alliances like GH-SC" look who is talking, barely able to field 10 members but claiming to be a real alliance Bragging about how good you are, only because you got lucky in numerous situations in the past. Sitting on your fame you earned way back then. I can't even recall the last time you made word of yourself. That was probably like, earlier this morning . puh! so obsolete.. A poor random group of magnanimous Melita have a tiny plea on the forums concerning their lack of liquidity and ability to form a valid participation medium and you and your friends come swinging their massive ..... Oh Wait! O_o
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.21 00:48:00 - [28] no u !
Super Chair Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.05.21 08:00:00 - [29] The real problem from a development standpoint is even if you allowed factional warfare players to participate, it would be a hassle to decide which group of players within each militia would be able to participate in the matches. There isn't a central authority in each militia (there is no executor) that can just decide that. It is rather a hassle for some faction war players to have to drop FW for 3 months for the chance at a slot to participate, yet, some players do that. Thats the biggest downside is that someone who wants to participate has to leave one of their favorite aspects of the game to qualify to participate in this (and then there's the chance that you will not even get in...) Nullsec players (who are already in an alliance) don't have to drop their play style suddenly for several months just to participate in something such as this. But in the end its a personal choice for a FW player.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.05.21 18:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk You got an exception once, you failed hard and as a result you didn't get more exceptions, simple as that. Actually Caldari/Gallente managed a pretty decent showing and Caldari would have been in the top 32 had they not been docked few points due to techical error. Commentators were of course overtly hostile to Caldari, deeming them the "noob militia" and assuming they would score 0 points in tournament. But I quess Caldari are to blame for FW not being in AT. After all, they outscored Goonswarm
Lucius Achilleus Amarr SniggWaffe	Posted - 2011.05.21 19:00:00 - [31] Let each Faction Warfare group put up a team and have a FW-only sub tourney with the prize being a one run bpc of the 2nd place frigate. Boom done, the downs brigade can have "just another lowsec" fight and don't have to generate bad PR for CCP by getting utterly schooled by the other AT teams. AT is small gang PvP turned on its head.
new fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.05.21 20:04:00 - [32] factional warfare only exists for noobs to farm missions in their stealth bombers while we have some really bad alliances and teams this year, we shouldnt allow mission runners in by default
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.05.21 21:43:00 - [33] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/05/2011 21:44:30 Originally by: Toight Tigah so create an alliance for all your FW buddies to join for a month to play in the tourney. name it "faction warfare alliance" or something else witty. why even have this extra step? what does it acomplish? so we make an alliance, call it "minmatar militia alliance" and then take part in the tourny? This is the same thing, plus redundancy. How can some people say "Miltiians shoudln't be allowed in the tourney! unless they make a meaningless alliance with the same name!" edit: also my point was it wasn't always a bunch of mission runners. And just the general fact that ccp could support FW and turn in back into the fastest way to find pvp again. the tourney draw was just another way to get people into FW pvp since it was based o your pvp kills.
Rubysister	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:25:00 - [34] Having been the fly on the wall(cloaked) watching a few milita fights I have to say that The difference between militia and Tournament fights is less that some seem to think. If a group of Militia players want to sc**** up the isk and field the ships I see no problem with it. Of course this begs the question> How many Milita Members have alt accounts that are in Alliances?
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:39:00 - [35] I'm special too!!!! I demand a slot on the ALLIANCE tournament next year. ~~~

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