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Actual Simulations
People United Conquering Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I want to specialize in fighting but I'm still a real newbie here. I have just finished the military tutorial and am currently flying a Gallente Tristan. I was doing some research on what would be a good next step for me and a Destroyer seemed like a natural choice.
Does that make sense? Does anyone have general tips for using a Catalyst?
So far, I've been using Rail Guns I with Tungsten charges in the Tristan. I orbit enemies at about 7500m and it's been working for me so far but I know nothing. Thanks! |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Depending on what you are trying to do unfortunately.
You could spend over a year just learning frigate combat and skilling up the T2 frigs and support skills.
I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would say you 'aren't learning proper PvP' in a frigate.
That said, frigates fly different than cruisers etc. So there is more to learn with each new ship class such as engagement envelopes, standard fits etc. So if you are looking to PvP in cruisers on up you may be better off shipping up to the larger boats and begin learning at that level to minimize the tactics you need to re-learn.
Lots of stuff to learn applies to all ship types and combat ( d-scan, target selection, basic kiting vs basic brawling, booster use, cap managment, situational awareness etc ). With that in mind, as long as it doesn't get boring for you, feel free to master your tristan for a period of time to come. You won't shortchange yourself that bad. |
Actual Simulations
People United Conquering Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Great! I was under the assumption that frigates were entry level and wouldn't be useful very long. I'll stick to my Tristan for now then. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
You may find your tastes change after time so keep an open mind.
Some bloggers and others have expressed a better feel for the slower pace of the larger ships. Frigate fights can be over in seconds so you may find yourself overwhelmed with the stuff to do in a short amount of time.
All personal taste really so don't give yourself tunnel vision too early is all I was recommending.
You may even want to try the dessie out since it uses the same skill tree as the tristan your in already, if only to get a feel for the ship bloat and how the fight can change.
Example: alot of frigs can MWD around while kiting, but with dessies I started to notice the requirement to pulse the MWD's more akin to the larger hulls.
Every ship flies differently, even more so for the class of ships. Find the one you enjoy then master that. |
Otto Weston
Loveable Scurvy Dangerous Pirates
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 15:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Also, if you find gallente frigates to be good. Try on the incursus for size. Nice blaster damage and a drone to boot, a great stepping stone to the briliant ishkur which by itself can solo some cruisers and even battlecruisers, I have seen it done. Tbh, the tristran is too slow, is a mixed weapon platform and doesn't really have a great pvp role - The incursus would be better for you.
LSD Pirates FTW! |
San Jina
Just Another Industrial Corp
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 16:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Also the Gallente path is right now good for two types of ships to eventually skill to. The Myrm and the Domi. Flexible ships for both PVE and PVP. you can eventually use your catalyst as a cheap salvage boat / nullsec ratter once you grow out of it. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 16:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actual Simulations wrote:Great! I was under the assumption that frigates were entry level and wouldn't be useful very long. I'll stick to my Tristan for now then.
Good man - I spent a year in frigates, 9 months of which was PvP. Was fun but a little limiting near the end - however it was well worth doing. I'm nearly 3 years in and I still can't fly a BS properly 
|
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 17:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Otto Weston wrote:Also, if you find gallente frigates to be good. Try on the incursus for size. Nice blaster damage and a drone to boot, a great stepping stone to the briliant ishkur which by itself can solo some cruisers and even battlecruisers, I have seen it done. Tbh, the tristran is too slow, is a mixed weapon platform and doesn't really have a great pvp role - The incursus would be better for you.
Still working them all out myself, but I'd consider that the tristan has gotten a thumbs up from many good frigate pilots.
A lesson I can pass on about it:
flying it like an armour tanked merlin may dissapoint you, the lack of the optimal bonus limits your ability to slip out of neut range with NULL.
My next go will be to try it more like a durable incursus, but its a mystery I'm still trying to solve :) |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance
Omega Vector
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
San Jina wrote: you can eventually use your catalyst as a cheap salvage boat / nullsec ratter once you grow out of it.
Wait, what? Destroyers are good for taking out nullsec rats? Elaborate?
I'm planning a nullsec move eventually, and I love thrashers. Useful little things. |
San Jina
Just Another Industrial Corp
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 17:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes you can rat in it with decent enough rail and drone skills, a DCU II and Afterburner II. Just keep at optimal and keep moving. |
Roime
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.09.27 18:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tristan is the king of Gallente frigate line-up, with the most slots and best tank/gank-potential... but has one major flaw and that is the split weapon system (two turret hardpoints and two launcher hardpoints). To get the best out of it requires to train both missile and turret skills, doubling the training time. This means months, and probably the reason why Incursus is much more popular. Incursus is also very nice and does good damage, but is less tanky than other common combat frigates.
I have only recently gotten into frigates (RvB!), and as a drone pilot I had neglected crucial skills to fit & fly them properly:
Weapon Upgrades V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV (buy a cheap PG4 engineering hardwire, train to V later)
Engineering V
Electronics V
- those 4 are absolutely mandatory for Gallente frigates, hybrids have insane fitting requirements causing you to make too many compromises with low skills. Luckily those skills are extremely usable on any ship and probably considered fundamental skills anyway.
Besides those, navigation skills are very much needed as our ships are typically slow. Also Mechanic V and Hull Upgrades V to get some tank, and then train T2 small hybrids as fast as you can, they do a bit more damage, but the main thing is the ability to use Null, the tech 2 ammo that increases your range quite nicely.
Oh and I assume this topic is about PvP, right? |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
I may get some disagreement here, but I'm personally of the opinion that destroyers are a trap. They look like a step forward for new players to advance from frigates, but every last one of them is extremely tight on fittings, has a gigantic signature radius, and has difficulty tanking much of anything.
Most races will be significantly happier once they move on to the cruiser lineup -- the Rupture, Caracal, and Vexor are all excellent. I wish I could say the same of the Amarrian lineup, but at least the Harbinger is decent. |
Sassaniak
Rayvek Laboratories
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Op did lack a particular direction he was going in, Pvp or Pve, but to say the least, dessys are gimped in a few ways that i havent ever really understood why, they are oversized frigates with all the problems of cruisers and none of the benefits. sig, speed, and damage are flawed in the dessys.
this is not to say they dont have uses, Sabres (minmatar interdictor)/ thrashers can make things very interisting and the caldari one isnt bad. but the eris and the amarr one, suckage.
I know many people who have never trained dessys, or traind them up only to use them as salvagers. others i know, fly mostly interdictors. i have yet to meet the person who says its their ship of choice.
As to pve, the -25% rof (+5% rof for every level destroyers trained makes that go away) makes it not a great choice for starting players but more of something to go back to. I would suggest getting one of the cheaper cruisers. or sticking with frigates, training to AF's is pretty quick. ishkurs are one of the best frigates in the game, (for pve) get your drone skills up and you can run much harder sites/ l2 missions.
dessys die pretty fast in L2, and are not allowed in all L1.
as to pvp, frigates will offer you a much better variety of fittings and roles. dessys are your fat cousin who cant play football*. they have too much sig, arent fast enough and generally dont have good fitting options. then they have frigate tanks with none of the benefits of frigates, (speed, low sig)
*the sabre/thrashers are really the only exception to this. sabres because of autocannons, much better fitting options, lower relative sig, and higher speed can take much larger enemies effectively.
Tl:dr
Train cruisers, try them out, go back to frigates they are infinitely useful but not always the best ship for the job. Dessys kinda suck for most things, cept the sabre that has more uses. catalyst kinda sucks till you get to destroyers 4, and good gun skills. great salvager ship though.
...............................................................................
Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed. |
Sassaniak
Rayvek Laboratories
3
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Posted - 2011.09.27 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:I may get some disagreement here, but I'm personally of the opinion that destroyers are a trap. They look like a step forward for new players to advance from frigates, but every last one of them is extremely tight on fittings, has a gigantic signature radius, and has difficulty tanking much of anything.
Most races will be significantly happier once they move on to the cruiser lineup -- the Rupture, Caracal, and Vexor are all excellent. I wish I could say the same of the Amarrian lineup, but at least the Harbinger is decent.
Arbitrator - is a good drone ship, not directly in line with the rest of amarr, but good none the less.
Maller - is a suprisingly good mission boat for newer players, its baseline pg/cpu allows a much better tank then the omen and its bonuses are geared more towards new players, and of course bait ships.
...............................................................................
Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed. |
Actual Simulations
People United Conquering Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 19:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thank you all for the responses. It's all a bit overwhelming but I figure I can stick to my current Tristan for a while while training up to learn Assault Frigates and eventually Cruisers, skipping Destroyers.
Also, PVP sounds way more fun than PVE. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:I may get some disagreement here, but I'm personally of the opinion that destroyers are a trap.
They absolutely are. They require ridiculous fitting skills to work as intended. At least the Thrasher has the option of using ACs instead of arties (which would be indicated by the optimal bonus). And yes, their tanks are all pretty thin and only get better, again, with good to great fitting skills and oversized modules.
And then there's the issue of cost. The hull isn't much more than a T1 frigate but the additional highs end up costing significantly more to fill effectively -- which increases both the initial outlay and the net price after insurance.
|
McMorrow
Vice And Valour
8
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Posted - 2011.09.27 20:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
only two things I use destroyers for:
farming angel plexs(use autocannons and get free ammo!), and salvaging
you can cram 4 trax, 4 salvagers, an afterburner, cargo expander and cargo rigs on a cormy and make quick work of it, I usually use my alt for that while I am doing other missions
o
Two tears in a bucket... |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance
Omega Vector
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't skip destroyers totally. Pick up the skill, train it enough to fly one. You never know when you might need a ghetto salvager, or a small, cheap hauler.
They're useful things. Kinda a niche for combat, but eight high slots and a good few low and mids.
Although, I don't use them much. Barely at all since I picked up a Noctis for salvaging, my hauling now requires industrials, and they mostly sit around my hangars unused. |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
49
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Posted - 2011.09.27 21:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Destroyers are useful enough to train to 1, yes. I wouldn't bother taking it any further unless you want to fly interdictors though.
And if you want to fly interdictors, get an alt to do that. You don't want to be paying clone costs on an 80 million SP pilot... |
Satav
Latinum Exports
21
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Posted - 2011.09.28 15:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd say a thorax would be your best bet buddy.
A catalyst is the "next" step linearly but it doesn't have any long term benefits unless you plan to fly interdictors. |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.09.28 19:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
For PvE I loved Destroyers for level 1 missions. You get a free Destroyer at the end of the advanced military career tutorial so why not give it a shot? They get a bonus to range so fit some long range weapons and you pretty much can kill everything before it gets close enough to shoot you. I used my Destroyer for ratting in 0.5 belts too.
I guess a lot of people skip them because they are not perfect ships but I think they are a fun step up from frigates while you are working on training your core abilities or working toward cruisers. |
Arvantis Sauril
Federal Defence Union
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.28 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hey Actual,
Being a fellow Gallente and EVE newbie I wholly empathize with your question. The Tristan is an awesome little fat pig, but I just don't think we have the skill set yet to bring the most out of her. (In terms of both SP and actual combat experience.)
For PVE I highly recommend buying a Vexor and training Drones to V and all the supporting Drone skills to 3. They will chew through missions, fatten your wallet and raise your standing. Or if you really want to do missions in a Frigate, I would actually recommend the Catalyst for 1's. (yes I know its not a frigate) The 8 guns and high range will kill most npc's before they ever get in range, whereas (from personal experience anyway) in the Tristan or Incursus I've often found myself taking fire from multiple missile boats where I can only effectively destroy one at a time.
PVP, yes, stay in a frig. |
Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
You can't beat having destroyer skills to 5, small t2 280mm artys, 2 targeting rigs, one small ANC rig, dual res scripted sebos, in a pvp squad camping gates insta popping frigates, pods and two/three shotting cruisers/bc (depending on number of thrashers). |
Bloody Wench
17
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Posted - 2011.09.29 01:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Actual Simulations wrote:I want to specialize in fighting but I'm still a real newbie here. I have just finished the military tutorial and am currently flying a Gallente Tristan. I was doing some research on what would be a good next step for me and a Destroyer seemed like a natural choice.
Does that make sense? Does anyone have general tips for using a Catalyst?
So far, I've been using Rail Guns I with Tungsten charges in the Tristan. I orbit enemies at about 7500m and it's been working for me so far but I know nothing. Thanks!
Change now before you get sucked into the whole hybid / drones combo.
Rifter is king of the frigates. Auto Cannons are current FOTM but it's only small guns so it's what? A week?
Skip Destroyers completely, after level 1 if you must train it at all. Noctis is very short training and surpasses the Catalyst in every regard as a salvager.
Assult frigates I prefer the vengenace (amarr)
Interceptors Gallente is best, but I still prefer the malediction because it looks the coolest, not because it's awesome in any other way.
Just what ever you do dont stay with hybids as a weapon platform. AC>Lasers>Missiles>Hybrids IMO. |
Headerman
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
130
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
To the OP,
I am of the opinion that staying in frigates is a great move. Keep your tristan and use it. Also get one of each other Gallente frigate and try them out too, find where they are good and have a go at creating a new role for them.
I think Destroyers are a pretty vital step for newbies. Yes they have many drawbacks, yes they need skills to be effective.
But thats just it: get a destroyer and fit it out, see what works and what doesn't. show your fit to others and see where it can be improved. You will need some skills to make it effective, so you have to train up. but then those skills are with you forever.
Use a Catalyst to train yourself, and when you step up to cruisers, you have a better idea of how they work.
And yes, dessys are fun to use for nul sec belt ratting, they can take BSs out pretty effectively while staying under their guns!
[img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've been flying gallente almost exclusively the last month or two - training up their frigates and guns. The Tristan is a BEAST of a pvp frigate BUT requires' more time and learning to get used to.
You will need half decent drone skills - The tristan carries a drone which contributes well to it's damage.
You will need hald decent missile skills - The rockets you can fit are nice because they don't rely on tracking.
You will need decent blaster skills - your ship bonuses are both geared to this gun type.
Followed by the usual rig marole of fitting skills, propulsion etc. Even a T1 fit tristan has very respectable damage and tank. I've been flying this:
[Tristan, Tristan Rocket Blaster Armor]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
1MN Afterburner II
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hobgoblin II x1
That should provide you a decent baseline to work towards and isn't crazy difficult to fit. It handles well and can take most other T1 Frigs/destroyers and come out on top. OH also - the other advantage to this fit for newer players is that hybrid rigs are dirt cheap. A couple of thousand isk as opposed to hundreds/millions. So make sure to train up hybrid weapon rigging. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.09.29 08:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Since you're still at frigate and a fairly new pilot, I'd strongly suggest training away from Hybrids and any skill that starts with "Gallente". Sticking with ships and guns that are pretty much useless for 99% of Eve's activities will only frustrate you. CCP is promising a fix/buff but don't expect one before, like, 2014.
From your post I figure you want to get into PvP. If that's the case, pick up ship skills that start with "Minmatar" and skills that have the words "Projectile turret" or "Autocannon" in them. In doing so you will make sure you can actually contribute to fights within a reasonable timeframe. Being a specialist, however, will take time because you'll (eventually) be needing Guns, Missiles, Drones, Shields and Arnor skills. As a bonus, if you reach that specialization point, nobody will be able to touch you.
If PvE is your thing, forget about any skills in the Gunnery category and find the section "Missile Launcher Operation". You won't regret it. As for ships you'll be looking for stuff that says "Caldari" and has a lot of missile hardpoints. Kestrel into Caracal into Drake is a fairly easy path to success. Think 2-3 months here to afk level 4 missions.
If you're undecided and want to experience a bit of both, Energy Turrets and Amarr ships will be your friend. This line of ships/weapon systems is not particularly good at any activity, but can hold its own in both PvP and PvE. As a bonus they're also fairly easy to "max out" as their ships basically all have the same fitting.
TL;DR
Minmatar / projectiles - op for PvP
Caldari / missiles - op for PvE
Amarr / lasers - nice for PvP, nice for PvE
Gallente / hybrids - useless for PvP, useless for PvE |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
That's not entirely accurate Shayla Sh'inlux:
Gallente Drone ships are very good for running missions. Vexor >Myrmidon>Dominix progression.
Hybrids are prefectly fine for assault ships, inties, frigs, etc.
Medium Hybrids are even pretty decent see thorax, brutix, Myrmidon.
The Neut domi is fearsome in pvp, and megathrons can still do some pretty evil stuff.
I don't think you've used gallente ships and are simply jumping onto the minmatar is teh bestest ever and gallente can't do anything bandwagon. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Stop training Gallente immediately and switch to Minmatar, you will not regret it. Go back to gal when you decide to get into Recons or you decide to start flying pirate faction boats (daredevil, dram, cyn, etc).
Today PvP in Eve is all about speed and damage projection, gallente suck at both.
Oh and BTW Thrashers are sick for PvP, don't skip destroyers at all.
Is sexy time? |
Actual Simulations
People United Conquering Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 19:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:I've been flying gallente almost exclusively the last month or two - training up their frigates and guns. The Tristan is a BEAST of a pvp frigate BUT requires' more time and learning to get used to.
You will need half decent drone skills - The tristan carries a drone which contributes well to it's damage.
You will need hald decent missile skills - The rockets you can fit are nice because they don't rely on tracking.
You will need decent blaster skills - your ship bonuses are both geared to this gun type.
Followed by the usual rig marole of fitting skills, propulsion etc. Even a T1 fit tristan has very respectable damage and tank. I've been flying this:
[Tristan, Tristan Rocket Blaster Armor]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
1MN Afterburner II
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hobgoblin II x1
That should provide you a decent baseline to work towards and isn't crazy difficult to fit. It handles well and can take most other T1 Frigs/destroyers and come out on top. OH also - the other advantage to this fit for newer players is that hybrid rigs are dirt cheap. A couple of thousand isk as opposed to hundreds/millions. So make sure to train up hybrid weapon rigging.
That setup looks very interesting to me. How do I fight in that though? Close range blaster fire supplemented by rockets and the drone? |
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