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Summit Topic: Nullsec Industrialization ("Farms and Fields")

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Moabama	Posted - 2011.05.23 17:22:00 - [151] So you want to do two thinigs it seems; 1)increase industrialization of nullsec, and make the resources for that industrialization "burnable" or breakable. These two goals appear to work against each other. Making the resources for industry breakable is a deterrent for doing the industry. In essence, if you create some industry, with local resources, you are providing a target. The target gets hit, and your benefits go down. If the benefits are perceived as less than the cost, the industry will go back to high sec. The other question that seems to be missed, is the one about the small groups. The reason for making the resources breakable is so that small groups have a means to attack large alliances other than direct Sov assaults. Why would a small group want to disrupt resources by burning the fields? What does a small group gain from this? Isnt the only reason Sov is challenged is in order to gain access to the resources in that area? So instead of "burning" the fields, which only serves to deny access to the larger alliances temporatrily, make it so that the resource can be temporarily taken over. You dont want to burn the field, you want to steal the field. This is the benefit that would encourage small groups to organize raids into sov space. But, it still appears that this feature would have an Inverse relationship on the creation of industry in nullsec.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.05.23 17:29:00 - [152] Originally by: Bagehi Most players did not sign up to play ice road truckers in space. Most people don't sign up to do it in real life either. Quote: Hauling is not fun. In EvE. Quote: Escort duty is not fun. In EvE. Quote: The more hauling, the more escort, the less fighting. The opposite actually. Quote: Why is it the job of an alliance to make mining worth the risk? Part of building an empire is providing protection and infrastructure for its denizens. Quote: What incentive is there for the alliance? Economic independence? The ability to just about ignore the existence of hi sec %99 of the time. Quote: If CCP wants people in null sec, then there needs to be carrots in the game for being in null. There are plenty of carrots, but EvE is a game about spreadsheets and people who metagame first and play second. Quote: If they want people to mine low end ores in null, then they either need to get rid of the high ends that we mine (because you make a lot more per hour doing that) or dramatically increase the load/hour you get from low ends in null. Honestly, this makes little sense. Low End Ore in Null is far nicer to mine than anything in hi sec, for many reasons. You have big fat Veld moons you can chew on for hours, the need for this material is immediate, and Mining in null isn't as dangerous as most think. If even half of the null sec 'empires' declared economic independence from hi sec, the hi sec market would go up in price 35-60% across the board. Which could be taken advantage of with strategic exporting. Prices in null would balance out with prices in empire in a matter of weeks. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.05.23 17:56:00 - [153] Originally by: Tub Chil I'm not sure it it's possible to encourage industry in nullsec without nerfing hisec industry. CCP approach obviously is to nerf freighters and jump gates, but i don't think it will work. did people manufacture stuff in nullsec before jb-s? (seriously, I didn't play back then) so reduce slots in hisec, add taxes in hisec, if you want to buff nullsec. not sure if it's good for game tho People have almost always hauled low end minerals, ships, modules from high sec to low sec. Originally by: Val'Dore Originally by: Bagehi Most players did not sign up to play ice road truckers in space. Most people don't sign up to do it in real life either. Try selling that game. Penn and Teller made a game like that once upon a time. It was extremely boring. Hard to convince people to spend money to be a truck driver in a video game. Because, not sure if you noticed this, but this is a video game that people pay to play. Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: Hauling is not fun. In EvE. In real life too. Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: Escort duty is not fun. In EvE. And in real life. Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: The more hauling, the more escort, the less fighting. The opposite actually. The occasional small gank that you, in your uber leetness, enjoy does not compare to the sheer destruction of the current null sec wars. If everyone is hauling (and that's assuming most people don't say "screw this" and leave) there won't be many large fights. That's bad for the economy in Eve. Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: Why is it the job of an alliance to make mining worth the risk? Part of building an empire is providing protection and infrastructure for its denizens. Would you haul stuff on a regular basis through low sec and null sec for a couple million isk when you can make it doing something else? Null sec is specialized (currently) as an isk faucet, a moon mineral faucet, and a high end mineral faucet. Further below Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: What incentive is there for the alliance? Economic independence? The ability to just about ignore the existence of hi sec %99 of the time. Economic independence is a stupid idea. It is terrible in real life and the economy in Eve is big enough where it would be a terrible idea there too. Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: If CCP wants people in null sec, then there needs to be carrots in the game for being in null. There are plenty of carrots, but EvE is a game about spreadsheets and people who metagame first and play second. Then why do so many null sec players spend a chunk of their time running missions and other things in high sec? Originally by: Tub Chil Quote: If they want people to mine low end ores in null, then they either need to get rid of the high ends that we mine (because you make a lot more per hour doing that) or dramatically increase the load/hour you get from low ends in null. Honestly, this makes little sense. Low End Ore in Null is far nicer to mine than anything in hi sec, for many reasons. You have big fat Veld moons you can chew on for hours, the need for this material is immediate, and Mining in null isn't as dangerous as most think. If even half of the null sec 'empires' declared economic independence from hi sec, the hi sec market would go up in price 35-60% across the board. Which could be taken advantage of with strategic exporting. Prices in null would balance out with prices in empir...
Dro Nee	Posted - 2011.05.23 22:17:00 - [154] Originally by: Bagehi Then why do so many null sec players spend a chunk of their time running missions and other things in high sec? Being in NPC corp, and seeing a metric **-ton of 0.0 alts, the usual responses are: 1) Because of CTA 2) Because of blob/cloakies/camp People's desire not to create a lossmail, which they will most likely be mocked for, is (imo) a driving factor of why people go to highsec. The relative safety means that they can afk when they want, or at least dont have to pay attention the whole time. Not everyone wants to be "ON" 100% of thier game time. Increasing rewards of null/decreasing rewards of empire wont change any of this. As an aside: The "its not FUN" argument is a little dubious in my eyes. Few people pay to train skills or think that waiting 50+ days for some long skill to finish is "fun". Yet, so far, few people would be willing to completely do-away with skills (although I wouldnt be surprised to see this whine crop up more and more). Plain and simple we endure skill training because we want the result of that training. Same thing could be said of hauling/mining. Either way, I dont care if these things get nerfed/buffed/whatever. I have no horse in this race. Originally by:** Bagehi Economic independence is a stupid idea. It is terrible in real life and the economy in Eve is big enough where it would be a terrible idea there too. This. Even if it was made possible, it wouldnt work long term. If the Nullsec community isolated themselves from highsec economically, the mineral markets would take a severe beating just based on the shear volume of minerals and soon-to-be minerals (modules purchased below mineral cost) created in highsec. Once mineral prices got low enough it would, once again, be significantly cheaper to purchase mins/modules in highsec and ship it.... meaning there would be no real change from the current scenario. Not that any of this thread matters now since the summit is already in progress.
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.05.23 22:46:00 - [155] Sad to see this thread only have 6 pages of discussion on it thus far. Nullsec will never fundamentally change until you make the distance traveled much longer in real time. It was this way in 2003, and you really felt like you were out in the wilds. But with the addition of the "super highways", smugglers gates, and capital jumping...distance shrunk. Local markets will never really flourish if it is fairly easy to just jump your stuff near a major hisec trade hub (and vice versa). ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================
MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.05.23 23:00:00 - [156] Originally by: Karash Amerius Sad to see this thread only have 6 pages of discussion on it thus far. Nullsec will never fundamentally change until you make the distance traveled much longer in real time. It was this way in 2003, and you really felt like you were out in the wilds. But with the addition of the "super highways", smugglers gates, and capital jumping...distance shrunk. Local markets will never really flourish if it is fairly easy to just jump your stuff near a major hisec trade hub (and vice versa). hmm you have regular galexy... then you have worm hole space... how about have worm hoel space lead to a hole new galaxy? make it a sub orbital galaxy like there are two of them orbiting the milkky way... have it be 5000 new solar systems without stargates... the systems are only linked (at first) with worm holes... ccp introduces a new ship called motherships... which can setup new star gates (basically the mother ship is a mobile station with a jump bridge that can go from system to system... this will be the real wild west... vast! and hard to find... and would force people to setup industrial zones to stay alive...
Reborn Master	Posted - 2011.05.24 10:22:00 - [157] Titan proliferation, and later JFs, killed nullsec difficulty in this regard. Does anyone else here even remember when there were freighter convoys, that would be escorted by 50+ ships 40+ jumps past Torrinos?
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.05.24 15:02:00 - [158] Originally by: Reborn Master Titan proliferation, and later JFs, killed nullsec difficulty in this regard. Does anyone else here even remember when there were freighter convoys, that would be escorted by 50+ ships 40+ jumps past Torrinos? Yes. The inability to do that at a high enough volume to keep up with demand in null is why we have all these things that make it easier to move stuff. And even then, you used to have to pod kill yourself to go buy another ship and make the trek back out to null because there weren't markets in null. I don't remember those events with fondness. So, to those who think getting rid of bridges, jumping, and jump bridges will localize the markets in null, they clearly don't remember back to the days before those existed... and the markets pretty much didn't exist. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Farnett DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE	Posted - 2011.05.24 17:19:00 - [159] As a whole there are good solutions to the majority of problems posed in this thread: We need more slots ---> let us build more stations There aren't enough low end mins in 0.0 --> re-balance the high end ores so that they drop more low end minerals However the issue of farms and fields to burn seems to be a problem. I see the farms and fields at issue as asteroid belts and moon mining. But how to burn them? My first idea for asteroid belts was to allow you to destroy the asteroids themselves (each shot destroys some of the ore until all of it is gone), however this only hurts the miners and not the ratters. which is when I came up with the second idea which I think will be more fun. Get rid of all static belts in conquerable 0.0 Instead of static belts there should be something capable of anchoring grav belts in space. (this would also require the addition of ice grav sites) Once anchored the the belts would become scan-able with the system scanner and begin to slowly decline in quality. In addition, the local rats would start stopping by to check out the belt. However, the anchor needs to be destroyable by a small gang and once destroyed the sov holders would then have 24-48 hrs(would need balancing) to come back and re-anchor the belt, otherwise it de-spawns and they would have to wait for another grav site to spawn. Also, the rats should have a small probability of attacking the anchors so that, if left unattended, the space would gradually return to the default of having no belts. ihub upgrades would increase the probability of grav sites spawning and each anchor would decrease the probability, causing the system to reach an equilibrium over time. This equilibrium should take weeks or even months to reach so that eliminating the belts causes long term pain to the inhabitants. This would give a small gang the ability to at least be highly annoying to the inhabitants of the system and possibly destroy the mining quality of a system. As for moon mining, the ability of a gang to mess with a moon mining pos should depend on how much the miner is willing to put towards defending the tower. A deathstar moon miner should take a fleet large enough that they might as well just destroy the pos. However an un-defended pos should be able to be messed with by a single player. The closest thing I can think of to match these requirements would be a structure that you anchor next to a pos which would stop the moon miner from operating until it is destroyed. However the act of anchoring this structure would be taken as an act of aggression by the pos which would immediately start trying to destroy it and the fleet doing the anchoring. Thus if you don't incapacitate the guns then they would destroy the structure soon after your fleet warps off. So, Depending on the defenses of the moon mining pos the act of interfering with its operation depends on the relative strengths of your gang and the pos in question. Oh.. and let us build stargates
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.05.24 19:39:00 - [160] Originally by: Reborn Master Titan proliferation, and later JFs, killed nullsec difficulty in this regard. Does anyone else here even remember when there were freighter convoys, that would be escorted by 50+ ships 40+ jumps past Torrinos? I remember Bestower flotillas supplying the original Fountain Alliance. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================

Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.05.24 19:42:00 - [161] Originally by: Bagehi Yes. The inability to do that at a high enough volume to keep up with demand in null is why we have all these things that make it easier to move stuff. And even then, you used to have to pod kill yourself to go buy another ship and make the trek back out to null because there weren't markets in null. I don't remember those events with fondness. So, to those who think getting rid of bridges, jumping, and jump bridges will localize the markets in null, they clearly don't remember back to the days before those existed... and the markets pretty much didn't exist. You are right, back then it really did suck. The outcry was intense, and things were changed. These days, I think the manufacturing and trade base is much more robust, and could survive the changes "back" to the old system. Major alliances already have their own market set up...or they should. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================
n4d444 Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.25 08:29:00 - [162] Edited by: n4d444 on 25/05/2011 08:30:06 0.0 should be about building a empire. Being self sufficient. You need industrials to mine to produce and mission/anomaly runners for meta stuff. It doesnt work because you have low end minerals in abundance in high sec in complete safety which is probably mostly mined by bots or afk miners. Also high sec has better rafineries, no taxes in 1 man corp and an abundance of manufacturing slots. A 0.0 miner can't compete with that so he only mines ABC ores anything else is pointless! Mierals coming from drone regions in loot form also destroy mining as a profession. Mining should be a necessity not a "lol" profession. The Jita dependance of 0.0 is stupid in so many ways. There shouldnt be convoys between 0.0 and Jita but only between the places of mining, manufacturing and trade in 0.0. People earning from pve pew pew stuff should be able to make their living in 0.0 without going to high sec to farm lvl4s. In my opinion industry/mining should pay more than farming anomalies/missions this is also one of the problems that destroyed the industry and why convoys dont happen. I can't pay the pvp people to escort me cos they earn so much more just running the anomalies so why should they bother. Also why bother mining when my tengu earns 50mil/hour. Low sec/NPC 0.0 space pirates/mercs should suffer from the lack of their industry and our industry is the fields they can burn. CCP recepie seems to make 0.0 into a wild west (which is reserved for low sec/npc 0.0) and just leave the high sec bears fat and happy. Destroy high sec! High sec must be a training ground not a lvl4 farming field, industry and trade haven! There is no incentive to do any of this in 0.0. When you make the incentive to live in 0.0 then for all I care you can burn all the jump bridges, jump freighters or anything with a jump drive because we won't need it. Now this would be a sandbox not a lol 90% of game is high sec.
n4d444 Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.25 11:03:00 - [163] By destroying high sec I meant to remove lvl4 (even lvl3) missions from it and deplete the asteroid fields completly and no matter how much safer high sec would be lvl2 missions wouldnt be appealing anymore. It would remove high sec mining bots and afk mining. It would make mining fun in 0.0 cos your tritanium wouldn't get you 5mil/h but 50mil/h. Problem is this would be a realy big change and after cattering for the cearbear hearth for too long they might not adapt to this change and would simply leave. This is why I know ccp will never change and mature this game and it's always gonna be a joke.
Jakara Nubai	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:05:00 - [164] Edited by: Jakara Nubai on 25/05/2011 21:06:02 There are a lot of grand proposals here and as a game design major I find it great that the community would go through all the trouble of taking a role in trying to help fix them. That being said I'm not sure the repercussions of these ideas are often times thought out to through the entire scope of this universe. This game has an advertisement about the butterfly effect and what some of these suggestions would accomplish would be negated by the problems they would cause. That being said what are the problems? Null Sec is baron of industry on a large scale when compared to High Sec. Yet when you talk to most industrialist they get all dreamy eyed over the thought of one day managing their own outpost or grazing in fields of ABC. So why is it that even though most industrialist want a slice of this variable heaven that they stay holed up in highsec, which, contrary to popular thought, is not profitable unless you already have a sizable investment, perfect skills and usually multiple accounts? The answer to that question is many fold but it has everything to do with what a friend of mine and I call the African Complex. Null Sec is currently this vast area of the richest space in Eve waiting to be harnessed by anyone who knows how. Unfortunately, like Africa, its run by warlords and their goons. In order to become a part of the Null Sec team you have to enslave yourself to a larger pvp alliance that will most likely not even protect you if a single neut comes in system looking for an easy kill. My Null Sec experience with indy amounted to a bunch of us indy guys tied up in station with one or two neuts outside and the entire protective fleet 2 jumps away unwilling to tackle such a small fry. Along with the African Complex comes something that normally doesnÆt get brought up. Behind most PvP corps there is an alt industry corp that gets fed through the pvp. While this isnÆt a Revelation among players already living in 0.0 I can state with some confidence that if most industrialist were told before entering in the game that their spot and their hard work was mimicked by an alt that never left station and was only played a minute fraction of what they put in that those players would have never chosen that route. While that is why you're never going to see a miner in system there are other problems too that should be addressed. My entire friends list stopped using PI when they made it variable. The mini game moves resources outside of reach for entire months and is no longer fun for an indy. Choas is fun for pvp but when it comes to creation, enough problems arise without the game taking its toll with RNG. Another factor of PI Hell is the the amount required to build anything in a Null Sec system is near impossible between running POS and not being able to get new command centers on demand. Logistics was brought up multiple times in this thread and I was wondering how many of those people have ever tried to run a system? Characters not logging on or unwilling to mine ice some weeks can cripple an entire system without the jump freighter lines. While the problem of ore compression is a massive one another nerf to jumping would harm rather then encourage growth not to mention setting up a new outpost in deep Null would become unimaginable. Before I will post a review on the changes I would make in vague terms I would like to bring up one last thing. If you really wanted to tip the scales for an Indy character making up his mind on whether or not null is right for him there is one massive incentive you can give to players. Bring back the chance to obtain a t2 BPO by doing a industry in 0.0. Even if it takes 2 years to obtain a frig BPO I can assure you it will peak interest.
Jakara Nubai	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:08:00 - [165] tl;dr - pvpers has a greater capacity compared to industrialist in terms of mineral and wealth gain - A pvper can mimic anything an Industrialist does with his stationed alt - planetary interaction is not player driven and is too unstable to support infrastructure growth when isolated from the Jita market - Jump freighters are required for any sustainability due to players having time conflicts. - Incentives other then you get to build for pvpers must be put into null.
Tsual Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.27 13:30:00 - [166] A minig station or any other placable installation that is build from p4s produces, available on the ingame market, producing constant small stream of ore, being destructable, only available in null, not to expensive but survivable enough ... would at least present a legal ccp provided in-game alternative to third party bots. shrugs
Mr LaboratoryRat Confederation of DuckTape Lovers	Posted - 2011.05.31 11:08:00 - [167] Edited by: Mr LaboratoryRat on 31/05/2011 11:17:34 Improve 0.0 station bonus's. Not the ones originaly seeded (has too many slots) but ones player built. Make it so that it is equal to pos manufacturing or better with upgrades. In mean time reduse price for station upgrades. Kinda really silly how expensive they are. On this way it gets cheaper to manufacture stuff in 0.0 compared to empire but it is more risky. Now industry gets buffed in 0.0 and peopel can start to create t2 production in 0.0. Combined with buying up reprocessed loot or mins all u need now to import is certain moon goo types. Spread or design a system that all types of moon goo can be get everywhere. CCP should make it so that a sun can be mined but no specific moon mins can be determaind as output. 1 Day its XXX other Day its XXX. For what i care lets call it a static gas harvester that convert moon gasses with a complicated process to random moon goo (make it so that its unsecured, interact with small gang ect put 2 reinforce timers on it something). Now all stuff needed to T2 production is availeble in all 0.0. put it can be made just as expencive or cheaper (depends on station upgrades. This should make it possible to have local t2 markets. This would make 0.0 station more valueable and a strategic point in disrupting T2 markets. Adding a screeny from my personal station cost exell sheet: Station upgrade rules http://imageshack.us/f/857/stationupgraderules.jpg/ Caldari station built / upgrade cost http://imageshack.us/f/853/caldaristationupgradeli.jpg/ This is the underlying problem. to get 1 station with monumental upgrade it cost atleast 35b and that not including station cost itselve. Hmm do i build 3 supers for 11b each or do i upgrade a station forever with possibility to never make it back or lose station. Not worth risk and investment. Desighn a militairy upgrade that spawn the mother of all sanctums but with bakon viseble in system. Give it + 50 rats each spawn ect. Dont forget scram rats ofc. More reward vs more risk. Introduce bpc's for dycripters and introduce a militeiry upgrade for cosmic's that only contains npc's that drop the materials. Or let them drop stuff that can make materials for the mataterias needed for bpc's. Make it static plex and reduce amount of mag and radar sites apearring in signatures, (no one really like doing them).
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:04:00 - [168] Don't forget an asteroid buff/replenishment upgrade for the industrialists. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:40:00 - [169] Be really nice if this would also give small gangs some part in 0.0 disrupting in sysytem farms and fields. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1495023 for more on gang warfare.
El 1974	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:15:00 - [170] Industry can only be made worthwile in 0.0 for huge alliance blocks. There is insufficient demand to produce a large variety of items when you're in a small alliance having sov in only a few systems. We don't want changes that will only benefit the large blocks. And I don't see any major issues that will be fixed by making industry more attractive in 0.0. Drastic changes will be needed to make 0.0 industry viable. When a few people turn to industry, that will draw people from other activities, thus making those more profitable...

Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.05.31 18:50:00 - [171] Originally by: Jakara Nubai Null Sec is barren of industry on a large scale when compared to High Sec. Not sure where you are talking about. We build caps and super caps in null. Other construction projects pale in comparison to that in terms of time, material, and effort. At issue is the margins in high sec are slim to negative (you could make more just selling the minerals) in some cases for smaller things. Why build them in null when you can import someone else's poorly thought out industrial plans? So, the more stuff that sells for next to nothing in high sec, the more null industry can focus on building bigger projects. Originally by: Jakara Nubai Yet when you talk to most industrialist they get all dreamy eyed over the thought of one day managing their own outpost or grazing in fields of ABC. So why is it that even though most industrialist want a slice of this variable heaven that they stay holed up in highsec, which, contrary to popular thought, is not profitable unless you already have a sizable investment, perfect skills and usually multiple accounts? Because many don't like working in groups and the less secure the space, the more you have to work together on stuff like industry. Originally by: Jakara Nubai Null Sec is currently this vast area of the richest space in Eve waiting to be harnessed by anyone who knows how... In order to become a part of the Null Sec team you have to enslave yourself to a larger pvp alliance that will most likely not even protect you if a single neut comes in system looking for an easy kill. There aren't warlords, there are groups. The bigger the group, the more effective you are. If you think someone else is going to run defense for you while you make isk... Originally by: Jakara Nubai Before I will post a review on the changes I would make in vague terms I would like to bring up one last thing. If you really wanted to tip the scales for an Indy character making up his mind on whether or not null is right for him there is one massive incentive you can give to players. Bring back the chance to obtain a t2 BPO by doing a industry in 0.0. Even if it takes 2 years to obtain a frig BPO I can assure you it will peak interest. T2 BPO? Are you joking? That's just something people will farm simply because it would be a disproportionately higher profit/risk ratio. The problem that is most obvious in null is how risk is not distributed well in Eve. A whole swath of problems in Eve are related to this. If you want more industry in null that require more risk in high sec. That's really what it boils down to.
Hemmo Paskiainen Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:35:00 - [172] Make it cheaper to produce t2 / t1 items in 0.0 and watc hthe industialisation flow, ofc people will be producing stuff in 0.0 and ship up to high sec but alot of it will also be dumped on 0.0 markets. It fits nicly within the risk vs reward line. To do this it should be easy and cheap to produce items that means no posses but station buff's. Make if affordable and worth it to upgarde stations. Pos manufacturing in 0.0 makes it insta un attractive cause u need to sell alot to gain back the pos costs. Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.06.01 15:55:00 - [173] Give better base refining rates in null, not worse. Give better turnaround on factory and lab operations (30% faster). Reduce the material cost of outpost factories 30% across the board. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
HELIC0N ONE GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.01 16:40:00 - [174] Originally by: E man Industries Be really nice if this would also give small gangs some part in 0.0 disrupting in sysytem farms and fields. I think this is implicit to the original suggestion. Improved capabilities for industrialization which also provides objectives for small gang raids into sovereign territory. 0.0 powers deploy their Nullsec Industrial Widgets which increase mining yields or ratting bountiues or production efficiency or whatever, above and beyond what is currently possible in either empire or 0.0, which encourages the current highsec carebear types to venture out into 0.0 rather than all clustering around Jita and Motsu as they do now. Roaming hostiles can then attack these widgets and loot them to gain some sort of reward of their own if the owners don't show up and defend.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.06.01 19:52:00 - [175] Originally by: Val'Dore Give better base refining rates in null, not worse. Give better turnaround on factory and lab operations (30% faster). Reduce the material cost of outpost factories 30% across the board. This is a reasonable idea. It would turn Provi into a giant gold mine though, but it ate the nerf bat hard in the anom change, so life goes on. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2011.06.01 21:58:00 - [176] Originally by: Kajan Tormen Quote: dynamic sales taxes now THAT is an interesting idea to kill jita/balance trade hubs Yes, absolutely. It's the other side to this which needs to be done to encourage this. Also, outposts should need field/farm products to remain active, or they'll decay into progressively less usable states. When captured, you should need to spend a few days establishing your field/farms to get them up and running. And they'll be type-specific, and not much use elsewhere. Hitting the farms repeatedly could cripple an Alliance's ability to use a station's services... //Maya
zxsteel Darkness Of Absolution	Posted - 2011.06.07 19:51:00 - [177] Adding more to stations, like able to place agents in it for common person to run, base in 0.0. As missions could give good mins out put, and more common t1 items to be sold! I must have been here!
El 1974	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:01:00 - [178] The launch of Dust, planned for the summer of 2012, will greatly effect the economy of 0.0 and how production of planetary resources is secured. I don't see any point in this discussion until we have a better understanding of how Dust will interact with Eve.
Echo Mande	Posted - 2011.06.09 14:34:00 - [179] With regards to making nullsec more independent of Jita, has anyone thought of revamping or augmenting alchemy? As I understand it alchemy currently allows you to create R64 goo out of R32/R16 goo at a lower efficiency than moonmining. With the last moongoo rebalance I doubt anyone does it though. How about making it possible to synthesize R32 and R16 (and R64) materials out of a combination of minerals, ice products, PI, gasses, R8 and maybe R16 goo? This, along with a tech rebalance, should both break up the goo cartels and allow the various other nullsec alliances to at create limited amounts of goo they can't moonmine for corp/alliance use. Corp alchemy operations should allow T2 manufacturing in nullsec to become more common while also creating nullsec markets (and sources of player income) for various things that are currently mostly ignored or exported. Of course, this would also cause more towers to be anchored and available for shooting. Which of course would create a market for replacement towers. . . Comments are welcome.
Salomei	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:28:00 - [180] Possibilities for frig/cruiser involvement: Big ships still useful: - Leave outright destruction to the big guns. Medium/small ships useful: - Add targetable "weak spots" that only a frig or cruiser would be accurate enough to hit. - destruction of a weak spot has limited effect: causes only a brief incapacitation, only reduces efficiency, or is just much easier to fix. - maybe a (very) small chance of a catastrophic chain reaction that destroys whatever weak spot was on (very Star Wars, but could be fun). Obviously some things would have to be immune and/or much less likely to have this happen. Sabotage module? - Wears down some timer or a fourth HP bar, causes less damage or has a less enduring effect than a full on assault. Maybe chance based like salvagers/EWAR. - Not a gun, so it requires ship fits less suitable for other things (good or bad depending on who you'd ask) - perhaps effectiveness is tied to something like scan res to give smaller ships an advantage. - could be a good "covert only" thing. Or maybe recons/blackops use them as if they had a frigate's scan res. - Maybe it makes EA Frigs useful somehow?



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