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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2005.02.09 02:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 09/02/2005 20:48:38
Edited by: Lucian Alucard on 09/02/2005 02:23:15
I see on here people trying to find set ups that will go toe to toe with Apocs super tanked ALOT. I have flown both ships and have been in a Raven since last july. Ravens CAN NOT normally take on a competent Apoc pilot and win. The Apoc will kill you on cap burn. With the nosferatu nerf a vampiric Raven can not suck off enough cap to make the Apoc shut down either it repairers or guns or do enough damage to kill it. The raven can tank whatever a Apoc throws at it but it can only do it for so long.
The ONLY thing that can kill a competent Raven pilot is a competent Apoc pilot with a tank. Ravens can wipe the floor with Gankapocs and gankageddons since said ships lack the any defense. They can kill any close up meg by either out ranging them or by out tanking them. Close up the Raven is the soundest choice for taking on any bs solo close up (except for a Super tank Apoc).
Now they can tank most snipers long enough to warp out or warp to a gang member thats closer to the sniper. If you get within 30km of a sniping tempest the tempest is screwed cuz his 1400s won't do much damage and if you get that close to any other sniper he lacks any defense. this assumes he is a smart semi competent sniper and has no defense.
DON'T TRY TO SNIPE WITH A RAVEN. The flight time for a crusie missle compaired to a laser beam,projectile shell or hybrid shell is eons shorter and thus drops your dps to pathetic proportions. Smart snipers will just warp to a different sniping post 130-140 away from his last post,so unless you have friends in intys that you can warp to don't even bother chasing him.
Tanking a Raven
Ravens need ALOT of skills and money to tank one right. You need cap recharge and capacity skills both to at least 4 (prefferably 5) and you need sheild HP and recharge skills to 4 as well (again prefferably 5). Having them at 4 makes you a serious threat,having them at five and with a good tank makes you a dauntless killing machine up close. You also NEED engineering and Electronics 5 and all targeting skills to a minimum of 4. Ravens NEED fof 4 and Caldari bs 4 to survive. If a 3-8 man gank squad with no bs pops up they are screwed if you have trained said things. Your crusie missles can hit their intys and frigs and BC can easily be swept aside with torps. Assualt ships and Heavy Assualt ship should be dealt with like intys,with crusie missles. they can out run the torps. DON'T use mwd
they eat up to much of your cap. In tanking a raven remember "Cap is King". Its what keeps you alive,the faster you can recharge it the better. Cap relays should be used sparingly, the set ups using them are EXTREMLY advanced requiring T2 mods and a very good pilot. Remember 2 T2 large boosters give you more hp for less cap but take up another mid slot that can be used for a "Eutectic" Cap Recharger,Cap Recharger 2 or Cap battery. So if you fit 2 make sure your going up against something you can kill.
Torps
They are great for taking out slow moving or stationary tragets. They do alot of damage and if you have named launchers you can be a holy terror on anything BUT a super tanked Apoc with a good pilot.You also NEED NAMED 3 hardeners. For fighting Amarr 2 EM/1 Thermal,Gallente 2 Kinetic/1 Thermal,now this is where it gets hard since minmatar and caldari can do damage against ALL damage types,so research who you are fight and figure out what they use. Caldari pilots tend to like to do Em,Thermal or Explosive damage so use a process of elimination on setting up a tank. Minmatar usually tend to do the same but I have seen more people using kinetic rounds as of late so again use a process of elimination by looking at kill mails from your friends or others.
Kill mails tell ALOT about a players style and set up so they are an invaluable piece of intel.
Sheild Boost Amps Vs. Sheild Rechargers
The Amps win especially if you are using the 2 T2 Large set ups, they will give you more Hp back faster then the sheild rechargers. They also work good if you are using the old XL Sheild Booster set ups.
In conclusion I would like to say that Caldari ships don't do the most damage and don't have the best tank and require more Sp and player skill to use then almost any other race of ship. Know your ship,know your enemy,choose your battlefeild and you can win.
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:07:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Lucian Alucard
In conclusion I would like to say that Caldari ships ... require more Sp and player skill to use then almost any other race of ship.
I thought that the general opinion was that raven is the BS that requires the least amount of sp to be efficient in. 
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:16:00 -
[3]
Now thats the debat. Ravens do less damage then turret ships. And tank worse, so where as you can get by with Engineering 5 and electronic 5 and targeting and ship effecientcy skills at 4 you need all at 5 and you need the missle skills at 5 or use ALOT b/c
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
Jalia Kovac
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:21:00 -
[4]
Nice guide. Although I too would have made mention of all the same skills being necessary for pilots of any other battleship. And I think we all know that there's less investment needed for Missile Operations than for a relative parity in Gunnery skills, so the "Caldari requires more skillpoints" part strikes me as a little odd...
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:25:00 -
[5]
To tank as well (Proportionally) with a shield tank compared to an armor tank you need a boat load more SP to achieve this. However, to achieve the same damage, you need less SP. It is really a trade off, the only reason the raven is seen as so "efficient" is because the way CM's blow everything smaller than a cruiser to hell and back.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:36:00 -
[6]
I don't know, I got both torps and cruise lvl 5 etc but I just got f'ing bored with the raven and decided to start training for a mega. So, gimme another 6 months and I'll p00n someone with one. ^^
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.02.09 03:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
In conclusion I would like to say that Caldari ships don't do the most damage and don't have the best tank and require more Sp and player skill to use then almost any other race of ship.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.02.09 04:56:00 -
[8]
I won't fly a raven for PvP before a very long time... that ship sucks if you don't have the right skills, which is not limited to turrets vs missiles, but involves other skills too (and all shields at V is a must, IMHO). Those who say otherwise (mostly frigateers) repeat what others said because it serves their interests (aka bleat with the seep).
More, a raven is too expensive. Ship and modules. Ravens sell for 125 Mio (108 Mio payout for 32.6 Mio insurance), an arbalest siege goes for 50+ Mio nowadays, a ZW-4100 for 30 and a Shock Limos for 20. Throw in some good named modules and you are flying something really expensive.
I like a scorpion much better since it's cheaper, doesn't require the same shields skills since it's defense is EW, and can buy four nice arba cruise launchers for less than the price of a single arba siege.
Anyways, nice post Lucian, very informative 
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Lorth
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Posted - 2005.02.09 05:56:00 -
[9]
Actually. I really don't like flying the raven. And yes before you say anything I have all of the skills to 4 min.
I find that to kill pretty much anything you need to either be in close, or really far and have some good tackling friends. Trying to fight any turret ship at 20-40km's ushally means you'll either die, or have to warp out.
Though, you do wtfpwn any close range ship, simply because you can tank better, and be doing lots of damage with no damage delay.
That being said, I do think a MWD works well on many raven set ups. You'll have trouble fighting the close range ships because of the tanking hit, but it works so much better to get under the guns of anything else. Thats the only way I have found to consistantly kill any turret ship aside from specific set ups.
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.02.09 08:45:00 -
[10]
tip: don't tank in a raven.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Edoo
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Posted - 2005.02.09 09:21:00 -
[11]
very nice post. one thing - gallente CAN chose damaeg type if you examine ammo.
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GoGo Yubari
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Posted - 2005.02.09 09:37:00 -
[12]
Many people are talking about requiring skillz to fly the Raven. The example skills you are using are absolutely necessary at 5 for any battleship. At that level, you shouldn't be flying a battleship at all.
The Raven is a solid ship. A bit of a no-brainer, but there's also beauty to how it solves problems. I would definately not agree that it is over-powered, either.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.02.09 09:47:00 -
[13]
If a Raven will mwding towards you from 50km distance you better run. The amount of DMG which will hit you in short time is enormous and wont give you time to repair your armor or boost your shields too ofte, before the rest of his torps will kill your tank.
The Divebomber, even with only 1 MWD is still one of the most dangerous tactics in combat.
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Dead or Alive
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 09/02/2005 11:12:34
I think raven's are the best solo bs. They are very good 1v1, and can easily handle all the small chowder flying about. A really good blasterthron can still win, but they need good skills. Gankageddon can do in a raven at the right range, but if the range is a little off then the geddon falls. A tanked apoc should also fall if the raven can get close enough.
Raven's do fall a bit short in fleets though, unless you use them as EW ships, and you've got some solid tacklers.
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Alliandre Breton
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Edoo
very nice post. one thing - gallente CAN chose damaeg type if you examine ammo.
Ok please show me a hybrid ammo that do other than Kinetic and Thermal.
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Grut
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:31:00 -
[16]
The ONLY thing that can kill a competent Raven pilot is a competent Apoc pilot with a tank
??????
No apoc tank can stand upto torps with a reasonable number of damage mods, and even if it can it wouldnt be able to do enough damage to break your tank or hold you there.
Blasterthons > then ravens at close range, as are ac tempests gankageddons are also a threat depending on your tank & range
in short your mostly wrong, and you didnt even metion the omfgwtfbbqfishsticks power of ravens vs support which is its main plus
Mostly harmless |
Captain Rod
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:46:00 -
[17]
"In conclusion I would like to say that Caldari ships don't do the most damage and don't have the best tank and require more Sp and player skill to use then almost any other race of ship. Know your ship,know your enemy,choose your battlefeild and you can win."
What utter crap lol. Sorry if I appear rude but its been doen before and its full of innacuracies.
SP? Get your fingers right, and use them to count the gunnery skills. Then use them again to count the missle skills. Then if you are still not sure add up your total missle skill sp's and compare with your average turret pilot.
Player skill? Ooooh. "I really must be careful of my range with me torps. Mmm. They might miss. Ooooh. Nearly forgot. I'm gonna need a really lot of focus and concentration and manouvering to hit them cruisers and frigs."
Damage? No its not a gankgeddon with no defence. No its not a blasterthron pilot with 10 million sp's in gunnery alone with no cap. Damage is good, consistent and flexible plus you have FOF.
Tank? Wtf? Excuse me, its second best to the APOC. The APOC is a hulking lump of metal.
Oh and Mega pilots dont get variable damage types. Its all kinetic and thermal. We get variable ranges/cap use/amount of damage dealt.
For Mega pilots its a case of ignoring 2/3 blaster types due to gimping the whole set up.
Finally, you talk about skill yet you profess to be able to take on 3-8 gank squad on your own??? Well you must be the most elite pilot out there. Most BS pilots are dog meat when outnumbered.
***Gobs on his noob ship and begins polishing his 6 x siege launchers to enure they "track" well to their target and do "wrecking hits" ***
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F4ze
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:09:00 -
[18]
As some other people were saying: blasterthron > Raven
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: F4ze
As some other people were saying: blasterthron > Raven
Possibly but the blasterthron pilot has to get close first.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Loka
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:38:00 -
[20]
Well last time i saw a Raven, he was 35km away and he had to warp before his first torp hit me.
For PvP, the Raven is still one of the most feared BS, because it can do anything everywhere. Its just not the best in any field, but more than avarage in all.
For NPC hunting there is no better BS as the Raven
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Dead or Alive
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Varia
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:48:00 -
[21]
I only fly Blasterthrons and IÆve fought Apocs, Tempest, Scorps and Ravens.
In my limited opinion the raven by far was the scariest and thereÆs no way in hell I would even attempt to engage a raven unless the fight starts less than 20km.
Women that strive to equal men lack ambition. |
ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:52:00 -
[22]
Thought some more flaming was needed on this topic.. So here's some more... 
You are almost right about gankageddons not being able to break a ravens tank (assume its fitted with the correct hardners).
Unfortunately you're a little behind the times...
With tech 2 mega pulse and hs2's, with max dmg skills, there is no raven tank in the game that can not be broken.
(Testing against experienced raven pilots with all named and tech 2 mods they generally managed to fire 2 volleys before they would have died.... not enough).
The raven is the most dependable bs pvp ship in the game because missiles are so overpowered in terms of hitting small ships and being able to use fof even when jammed.
If you get right up close, only a blasterthron will beat a raven because nothing else will be able to hit at 500m range.....
To add to the point already rubished. Caldari ships take FAR less skillpoints then gunnery based ships to be efficient fighters.
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Captain Rod
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Posted - 2005.02.09 14:18:00 -
[23]
Signed
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.02.09 14:23:00 -
[24]
Tested with a closerange tempest aswell... dont underestimate a well skilled tempest pilot. I got mediocre skills tho 
anyways I can start hitting from ~30km and do good hits all the way to I start orbitting at close range...
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Lowa
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Posted - 2005.02.09 15:08:00 -
[25]
First: Good guide on Raven setups!
Second:
Blasterthron vs Raven = Raven will kill you without a sweat.
I dont have the absolut best gunnery skills but nothing
in the turret-department is below 4 and many are on 5.
Now, I dont say I think I could just walse in there and
pick on a Raven but I really dont stand a chance in hell
of getting him. A fully/semi tanked raven will have the power
to sustain a blaster barrage for as long as its needed.
An all out damage raven would have to worrie IF you start
close to him but I say its a 70-80% chance he will beat you
anyway if the pilot has some skills (SP and experience).
I'll make an shorter example as well, I would omgwtfpwn
my self in a Me-Mega vs. Me-Raven and I have about
the same level of SP and skills toward both ships.
Regards,
LOWA
ps. In Leafo's "Retribution"-movie its me attacking the Raven
in the beginning, 12km approach, guess why Im warping out...
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.02.09 16:58:00 -
[26]
Quote:
For NPC hunting there is no better BS as the Raven
Actually thats not really true.. It all depends on the rats your hunting.
If you go against sasha rats, an armor tanked apoc would be best because sashas do only EM and Thermal. The raven just wont be able to tank as well as the apoc.
On the otherhand, if you go fight Angel rats, the raven wins because thier type of dammage favors shield tanking (all types but alot of explosive).
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.09 17:16:00 -
[27]
I think the Raven is the easiest BS to be average-good in. But that's as good as it gets. If you want to be spectacular other BS beckon but it will take skill, skillpoints, experience and the right fit.
Also there are two schools of thought, do you want to get kills or merely survive? If survival is all you are looking for then a 5x Multi Scorp or tanked to the hilt Apoc may be the ship for you.
By the way, I have a Geddon (non-gank) that I would put up against ANY sheild tanked Raven. If you want to come up with an oddball setup that can kill 90% of people then the Phoon, Tempest, Domi and Geddon are for you. You're going to have to get really creative though and pure tank or pure damage isn't going to cut it (hint-hint).
I'm not sure where the Mega fits here. It should be in the same category as the Raven but I think it falls a bit short... I haven't been in one, I'd have to try it out to identify its problems. I'd guess that it has fitting issues. If you could fit 6x Blasters, 2x Heavy Nos, 1x MWD, 1x Heavy Cap Booster, 1x Large Rep, 1x Medium T2 Rep and three hardeners WITHOUT fitting help (PDU, RCU, CPU, blah) then the Mega theoretically would work great using its last two lows for T2 damage mods. But I doubt it has the grid.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Auman
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Posted - 2005.02.09 17:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Auman on 09/02/2005 17:24:41
Alowishus, you can pretty much do that setup but you have to use elctron blasters. With good skills you'll be a threat to a lot of people out there. However, you'll have cap issues especially if you're not near a ready supply of cap charges. Also a gankageddon will still melt you in seconds....
Depending on range a skilled raven pilot would stand a good chance. I've recently dumped my megathron in favour of a raven, it's just a better ship at the moment.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.02.09 17:30:00 -
[29]
Thanks for the info.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.02.09 17:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Auman
Edited by: Auman on 09/02/2005 17:24:41
Alowishus, you can pretty much do that setup but you have to use elctron blasters. With good skills you'll be a threat to a lot of people out there. However, you'll have cap issues especially if you're not near a ready supply of cap charges. Also a gankageddon will still melt you in seconds....
Depending on range a skilled raven pilot would stand a good chance. I've recently dumped my megathron in favour of a raven, it's just a better ship at the moment.
Mac Knife [WOLF.] nearly melted my Megathron equipped with ions/nos/neutralizer in his Armageddon. I went from 100% HP to 20% armour in the time it took me to travel 20km. I didn't even bother trying to travel into blaster distance because the lrg armour repper/med armour repper setup in my lo's would not have sustained that kind of dmg for long.
I just docked and licked my wounds.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
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