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Precentor Saggitus
Amarr
Expeditionary Defense Fleet
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Posted - 2011.04.29 20:20:00 -
[1]
It really is. But what makes it awesome? Personally I'ma big fan of the fiction, setting and background, I also love the look, but gameplay wise it has stuff that no other game has, which begs the question why aren't people coping this model? Here are some of the things you may not of even thought of (but fortunately the people at CCP did) that make your gameplay experience that much the better.
1)Everything is valuable to everyone. The item system is without comparrison. Everything you can gain by whichever means is of value to you. Items will always be of value. How did they do this? First, everything can be sold or used by everyone. There are no silly soulbindings you see elsewhere, nor are any items limited by class usage (the total absense of classes is a bonus all its own) and almost everything can be reprocessed into something you can use. This makes for a thriving market and one where real world supply and demand is at work. There are no arguements over loot, every one has equal claim and equal need.
2) EVE is PvP all the time. While some may deride the "carebears" in the game, there really is no such thing. Mining is PvP, the market is PvP and even how much money one can make at missioning is PvP. In the EVE world if you are not in coopeation with someone, you're in competition with them. 'nuff said. Its competition which makes any activity "fun". Here's a way to think about it. Missioning might be seen as purely PvE, you're in empire, its pretty tough for someone to interfere with you. But what are you missioning for? ISK. What do you use ISK for? To buy **** you want. Guess what? There's other people out there making more or less ISK than you are and to purchase the stuff you want you got to compete against them. ISK is a relative thing, if someone has more than you then they can out buy you. Still think you're playing just by yourself?
3)You're limited only by your own creativity. There are no definitions of success in EVE. There is no best way to PvP, there is no best ship fit, there is no optimum group. Of course there are tactics that work better than others, but the game rewards those who can think on the fly, who can adapt and overcome.
4)There are always consequenses to your actions. Back to the PvP all the time aspect. If you're not cooperating then you're competing and there are no rules to how you go about it. Its your choice to act with honor and integrity or guile and betrayal. Trust no one. If someone screws you over though, you can always do something about it. Remeber, its PvP, all the time. The name of the game is survival of the fittest. You're in competition.
Get busy!
--------------------------------- |
Opertone
Caldari
World - of - Empire
Cassiopeia.
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Posted - 2011.04.29 20:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
in eve PvP is fuking lame
every time it boils down to who wants to bring more people. This is the unfun factor. All you can target is 'spaceships'. Bringing more spaceships means more chance for success.
Eve becomes a game of numbers.
2nd, in eve you can avoid PvP, warp off, log off, they never get you. In classic MMOs and FPS you may not instantly escape if you are already in
trouble. In eve you can, it makes it very boring and therefore most PvP is done with 'no consent' from other counterparties. I.e. smaller group gets ganked unexpectedly. Gatecamping shuttles. Griefing, Pros vs Nubs.
Your Pic is awesome.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:02:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Opertone
Eve becomes a game of numbers.
While this is generally true, you can easily mitigate it by using the eve-specific solution of switching to high-sec pvp (limited targets) or the every-mmo-ever solution of learning to use crowd control (electronic warfare) and terrain (bubbles, stations, roids) properly.
Quote:
2nd, in eve you can avoid PvP, warp off, log off, they never get you. In classic MMOs and FPS you may not instantly escape if you are already in
trouble.
Use your crowd controls, propulsion, and prop jamming. If you completely fail to restrict an opponents' movement they can get away in _any_ MMO. Yes, even warcraft. The modules are available for a reason.
---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:09:00 -
[4]
Sure. EVE is okish .. 
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Opertone
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
in eve PvP is fuking lame
every time it boils down to who wants to bring more people.
The NC thought that and they're getting held down and taken roughly from behind by PL and the DRF repeatedly because of that mistaken belief.
Player skill does matter, even in large fleet actions.
The ~numbers~ excuse is just like the ~skillpoints~ excuse or the ~ISK~ excuse or the ~H4xx~ excuse
It's just an excuse.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:20:00 -
[6]
I wholeheartedly agree with Malcanis above.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Gorongo Frostfyr
Shimohi Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:43:00 -
[7]
EVE is awesomeful.
_________________
Lost in a realm of eternal ice on the threshold of eternity. |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.04.29 22:49:00 -
[8]
lol what game has this guy been playing?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.29 23:05:00 -
[9]
The horrible truth is that EVE sucks less than most, if not all of the alternatives.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 30/04/2011 00:09:05
Originally by: Akita T
The horrible truth is that EVE sucks less than most, if not all of the alternatives.
Had a look at Shores of Hazeron? It's shaping up to be something special.
Started from the point CCP wish they had, so it's a space sci-fi sim instead of a rubberband with some mini-games attached.
edit: oh and they plan their code
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Moody Fugher
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Moody Fugher on 30/04/2011 00:36:37
Id quote OP, but too much stuff there.
Eve reminds me of a train track/mini town tiling floor, that my grandparents said was underneath our carpet around the house. Must have been 5 or something... but the idea of this huge, house sized, intergrated system beneath my feet with seemingly countless variations of playing technique and imagination rendering excited my little mind :) Been after that fix since I realized the carpet will never be torn up.
Eve is ike that... and here I am, under the carpet, on the forumzz :)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/04/2011 00:42:31
Originally by: Moody Fugher
Eve reminds me of a train track/mini town pattern on a tiled floor
Nu-uh ! Car Carpet City FTW !
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Had a look at Shores of Hazeron? It's shaping up to be something special.
Way too "minecrafty" for my taste at this point. Maybe in 3-5 years from now.
Just maybe, if CCP keeps screwing the pooch, and the others not just survive, but thrive.
In other words, no, thanks. I'd rather wait for Infinity, if it ever comes out.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 30/04/2011 00:51:32
edit: bad quote marks
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Had a look at Shores of Hazeron? It's shaping up to be something special.
Way too "minecrafty" for my taste at this point. Maybe in 3-5 years from now.
It is a bit that way, but the PvP is open and the way it's been put together is very creative.
Something that is surprising is the graphics are actually amazing for being blocks. OpenGL so guess to be expected.
You can see the reflection of the actual universe in a motorbike visor, with the glow of a spaceship, radiosity, a sun-set through a dynamic atmosphere.
Think the seed end of the gameplay is too involved for most ppl, other then those with a bent for logistics and organisation.
However with an empire up and running you can just invite in your mates and they can go use ships you've designed without ever thinking about the "civ" side of it, plays a lot like Eve at stage.
Originally by: Akita T
Just maybe, if CCP keeps screwing the pooch, and the others not just survive, but thrive.
In other words, no, thanks. I'd rather wait for Infinity, if it ever comes out.
I just can't believe a word CCP says anymore. They've become such masters of crowd control.
I really don't expect anything. I used to think they were one of the best organised companies in the world.
They just don't seem to have any love remaining for their game. Maybe when FW was forced on Noah he lost his heart.
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John Wesley Hardin
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:57:00 -
[14]
Yeah EvE isn't World of Warcraft, we know, that's why we play.
It haz spaceships and stuff, hope you enjoy your stay here!
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Ayieka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:22:00 -
[15]
informative thread is informative. :|
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Moody Fugher
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 30/04/2011 00:42:31
Originally by: Moody Fugher
Eve reminds me of a train track/mini town pattern on a tiled floor
Nu-uh ! Car Carpet City FTW !
Well I never :D
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The Forum Twins
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Opertone
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
in eve PvP is fuking lame
every time it boils down to who wants to bring more people.
The NC thought that and they're getting held down and taken roughly from behind by PL and the DRF repeatedly because of that mistaken belief.
Player skill does matter, even in large fleet actions.
The ~numbers~ excuse is just like the ~skillpoints~ excuse or the ~ISK~ excuse or the ~H4xx~ excuse
It's just an excuse.
This.
Three and a half years as mostly a recon pilot. It's pretty amazing what you can do to the blob when they're stupid.
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Misunderstood Genius
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:27:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Misunderstood Genius on 30/04/2011 12:34:02
Originally by: Opertone
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
in eve PvP is fuking lame
every time it boils down to who wants to bring more people. This is the unfun factor. All you can target is 'spaceships'. Bringing more spaceships means more chance for success.
Eve becomes a game of numbers.
2nd, in eve you can avoid PvP, warp off, log off, they never get you. In classic MMOs and FPS you may not instantly escape if you are already in
trouble. In eve you can, it makes it very boring and therefore most PvP is done with 'no consent' from other counterparties. I.e. smaller group gets ganked unexpectedly. Gatecamping shuttles. Griefing, Pros vs Nubs.
To me this reads like that you don't understand what the game is about. EVE always was planned to be a game with numbers. It's just logical that a sandbox game like EVE will grow and that space ship fleets are about numbers. The game has a steep learning curve and you are able to fight against numbers or pick up targets for a fun fight if you know how to do it. I am not talking about the classic 1v1 - you can ask for this everywhere but you will not find it at top belt these days because most people simply don't fly alone. The game grows and the more people join the more and bigger fleets we will have. So what's wrong with it? If CCP would work out limitations they would break the whole concept and then you can start to play a classic shooter.
Yes, in EVE you can avoid PvP but just not logging in. Tbh, I can't follow what you want to tell us. There are enough player with experience and skills able to deal with the game right by not warping off and log because they want to PvP. I could hunt down a couple of macro ratter in the past and ppl tried to tell me before: waste of time, it's impossible because the bot warps and cloaks. Rubbish. From my experience I knew that it would work and I just had to work out the right method with the right timing and what EVE teached us from the beginning: with patience.
To me you sound like someone who has not really much experience in PvP. You probably run around in your ships and whine when you got killed by a gate camp. I made all this experience since 2005 and ofc it can **** you off when you run blind again into a gate camp but at the end I found a way to play with gate camps. PvP in EVE is complicated because it depends on skills, the right fitting, imps and how much you will invest. It's normal to fly around in 100-250m fitted ships. An EVE starter is not able to imagine that he will fly some day a 200m ship for PvP. An EVE starter has no idea that expensive imps make a difference. An EVE starter is simply too scared and unsure because of lack of skills and experience. An EVE starter has no control over adrenaline. There are so many things in this complex game you need to go through and learn before you are able to fight 5-10 campers without losing your ship.
At the end you are lost in EVE if you are not a part of a group or if you are running all the time blind into/around low- or null-sec. And that's EVE. If you don't like it you need to leave it because CCP never will change it to an Arcade game.
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Blackjack 3v3
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Precentor Saggitus
It really is. But what makes it awesome? Personally I'ma big fan of the fiction, setting and background, I also love the look, but gameplay wise it has stuff that no other game has, which begs the question why aren't people coping this model? Here are some of the things you may not of even thought of (but fortunately the people at CCP did) that make your gameplay experience that much the better.
1)Everything is valuable to everyone. The item system is without comparrison. Everything you can gain by whichever means is of value to you. Items will always be of value. How did they do this? First, everything can be sold or used by everyone. There are no silly soulbindings you see elsewhere, nor are any items limited by class usage (the total absense of classes is a bonus all its own) and almost everything can be reprocessed into something you can use. This makes for a thriving market and one where real world supply and demand is at work. There are no arguements over loot, every one has equal claim and equal need.
2) EVE is PvP all the time. While some may deride the "carebears" in the game, there really is no such thing. Mining is PvP, the market is PvP and even how much money one can make at missioning is PvP. In the EVE world if you are not in coopeation with someone, you're in competition with them. 'nuff said. Its competition which makes any activity "fun". Here's a way to think about it. Missioning might be seen as purely PvE, you're in empire, its pretty tough for someone to interfere with you. But what are you missioning for? ISK. What do you use ISK for? To buy **** you want. Guess what? There's other people out there making more or less ISK than you are and to purchase the stuff you want you got to compete against them. ISK is a relative thing, if someone has more than you then they can out buy you. Still think you're playing just by yourself?
3)You're limited only by your own creativity. There are no definitions of success in EVE. There is no best way to PvP, there is no best ship fit, there is no optimum group. Of course there are tactics that work better than others, but the game rewards those who can think on the fly, who can adapt and overcome.
4)There are always consequenses to your actions. Back to the PvP all the time aspect. If you're not cooperating then you're competing and there are no rules to how you go about it. Its your choice to act with honor and integrity or guile and betrayal. Trust no one. If someone screws you over though, you can always do something about it. Remeber, its PvP, all the time. The name of the game is survival of the fittest. You're in competition.
Get busy!
STOP! Rewind ... now share with us the link to this fictional game you`re ranting on about, I need to check it out for myself.
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:35:00 -
[20]
Is there another Eve, seems I have the other version.
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Aeronwen Carys
Empire of Dust
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:11:00 -
[21]
Why do people equate PvP with combat? I'm pretty sure PvP means player versus player, which covers pretty much every single activity in EVE.
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Jenny Cameron
Caldari
Ordo Eventus
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:18:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 30/04/2011 13:24:42
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Why do people equate PvP with combat? I'm pretty sure PvP means player versus player, which covers pretty much every single activity in EVE.
Huh .. really, if that's so how is that different from any other game around?
So basically every game is PvP by definition of players competing over whatever?
________________*
- If you're in favour of a bloodline change please vote in the Assembly Hall in this thread - |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:20:00 -
[23]
Im awesome.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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FatRaps
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Opertone
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
Eve becomes a game of numbers.
yea, real war is not about numbers at all is it.
oh wait...
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar
JOKAS Industries
Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.04.30 16:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ghoest
Im awesome.
Don't lie.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.30 16:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Joe Skellington
Originally by: Ghoest
Im awesome.
Don't lie.
He isn't. He's merely saying that IMs are awesome
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Solhild
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Posted - 2011.04.30 18:03:00 -
[27]
I agree, that pic is awesome. |
Rhedea
BlackWing Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.30 19:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Moody Fugher
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 30/04/2011 00:42:31
Originally by: Moody Fugher
Eve reminds me of a train track/mini town pattern on a tiled floor
Nu-uh ! Car Carpet City FTW !
Well I never :D
Before my time, but my parents had an asphalt colour carpet and when I when I was 5 ('62) they give me a piece of chock and my older brothers lego...fun times.
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Precentor Saggitus
Amarr
Expeditionary Defense Fleet
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Posted - 2011.05.08 19:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jenny Cameron
Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 30/04/2011 13:24:42
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Why do people equate PvP with combat? I'm pretty sure PvP means player versus player, which covers pretty much every single activity in EVE.
Huh .. really, if that's so how is that different from any other game around?
So basically every game is PvP by definition of players competing over whatever?
Its because the competition is so direct, its so active.
I should preface things by saying I've had extensive experience with every other MMORPG out there - many to the endgame content - and none have held my attention like EVE. Some are just the same PvP scenarios over and over, the competition is so limited, so unimaginative. In others the competition is not direct, while one could race one another you're really following a preset path the game designers have placed out for you. Competition really devolves down to who can spend the most time in game. All the other games are so limited in their scope.
I find it unfortunate that so many can't see what they really have available with the sandbox to play around with - even if one thinks PvP is limited to direct ship to ship combat. You're really free to engineer your own PvP action. Don't like blobs? Personally the challenges of solo PvP in game are the most exilirating. Cat and Mouse, hunter and the hunted. Some of the best fun has been in small wolf packs, waiting for the blob to get impatient, or pick off their stragglers... The things to do are limited only by what risks you're willing to take.
That might be the ultimate handle on the game - its one of the few where whenever you enter into it, your in game investment is at risk. Its the only game where one must think logistically as well as tactically when it comes to PvP. Where's your next replacement going to come from? Defeating other players often means sending them to high sec to rest and re-fit. There's consequences for losing, there's rewards for winning.
--------------------------------- |
Precentor Saggitus
Amarr
Expeditionary Defense Fleet
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Posted - 2011.05.08 19:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Opertone
Edited by: Opertone on 29/04/2011 20:42:11
Eve becomes a game of numbers.
2nd, in eve you can avoid PvP, warp off, log off, they never get you. In classic MMOs and FPS you may not instantly escape if you are already in
trouble. In eve you can, it makes it very boring and therefore most PvP is done with 'no consent' from other counterparties. I.e. smaller group gets ganked unexpectedly. Gatecamping shuttles. Griefing, Pros vs Nubs.
In real warfare numbers matter too. Why should EVE be different? In war you can also avoid or disengage. Combat should be limited to an arbitrary arena as set out in most games. Battle is never consentual. Like the real world if someone has brought you to battle and you weren't prepared for it, you're shortly to lose. Part of the whole appeal to it is the hunt, the chase, the big game to get the advantage before the cannons roar. People who wish to be successful in EVE combat should really read Sun-tzu. We're not fighting some bizarre Aztec flower battle after all where the goal is to score some sort of arbitrary points and get prizes based upon your ferocious display.
Quote:
Your Pic is awesome.
Thank you.
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