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Dickheard Cain	Posted - 2011.04.30 11:27:00 - [1] Had a high sec corporation clash the other day. Which turned out for the worse. Hard to say what went wrong, whether the fleet moved slightly out of the repairers range (or the repairers didn't move closer, who knows) but eventually our tanking and DPS ability was gone. And then a Falcon appeared and jammed half the team. I was impressed. by the falcons ability to disable half a fleet. Anyone got any interesting strategies against a falcon.. or stories perhaps of their triumph over a fleet with a falcon.
Grylls Mishi	Posted - 2011.04.30 11:30:00 - [2] A thought has cross my mind. that maybe you need a falcon to jam the falcon before it starts jamming? XD
Salicaz Caldari Wolfsbrigade	Posted - 2011.04.30 11:32:00 - [3] Primary it, those who aren't jammed send drones after it. Even if you don't kill it you can drive it off field.
Azelor Delaria Caldari Unfortunate Soldiers	Posted - 2011.04.30 12:40:00 - [4] Another Falcon or a blackbird is excellent for it. However, unless that Falcon is being targetted, once your Falcon decloaks the other one cloaks up, decloaks and is now jamming yours. You can play games with this all you want. Second, sending drones after a Falcon usually doesn't work. A competent Falcon will be outside drone range in most respects, meaning that you need to have at least one ship capable of hitting out to 100km, or being able to land several ships on top of it immediately. Several interceptors are usually enough to tear it apart, and get back in time to hold people down while your DPS handles the rest of the fleet. Also, if you decide to opt for interceptors landing on it, remember to have someone lock it up so it can't cloak. *** * * *** "No OPLAN ever survives first contact with the enemy."
debbie harrio	Posted - 2011.04.30 13:24:00 - [5] Cerebus.
Dickheard Cain	Posted - 2011.04.30 14:20:00 - [6] How you mean? like. fly a ship near it and get everyone who is at a warping distance to warp to that tackler? Azelor Delaria Caldari "or being able to land several ships on top of it immediately."
ValentinaDLM Minmatar Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.04.30 16:17:00 - [7] Originally by: ****heard Cain How you mean? like. fly a ship near it and get everyone who is at a warping distance to warp to that tackler? Azelor Delaria Caldari "or being able to land several ships on top of it immediately." Get a hound full of overdrive injectors to get close cloaked, they send a couple DPS fit ships to melt them. Otherwise, a Kitsune or a keres can act as counter ewar and lock quicker than a falcon to jam them, but in practice the enemy will just snipe your EAF or their falcon will just warp out and back in, removing it from the field is only a temporary solution, as they will just come right back. One interesting tactic I seen involving a high sec war dec had two maels wait in station while others committed to the fight, and once the falcons were busy jamming they undocked, and alphaed them. Of course that might not work on more alert pilots.
Renarla	Posted - 2011.04.30 19:20:00 - [8] When the best counter to a falcon is another falcon, I think that says something about the balance of ECM.
KFenn Mecha Enterprises Fleet	Posted - 2011.04.30 21:14:00 - [9] ECM works as intended, simple as. The best counter to ECM is ECCM or having a sniper HAC in your fleet with the sole purpose of driving ECM ships off the field (as pointed out a Cerberus works well for this, as will a sniper Zealot). HACs have naturally high sensor strengths - fit and ECCM on one and a Falcon with have a tough job of jamming you out. Remember that you don't have to kill the ship - you just need to apply enough DPS to make it warp out. If it's not there, it's not jamming, period.
Dickheard Cain	Posted - 2011.05.01 00:44:00 - [10] Hmm I dont know whether ECM needs to be nerfed. to be honest. things were going ok. like we could of docked up and we could just wait it out. however that falcon was at a range where we had to move out of the range of our guardians. I think that was the main problem. maybe we couldn't kill. but we could of survived a 30 second dock. hard to say whose fault it was. maybe we moved out of range of the guardians. maybe the guardians were too lazy to move 2000m closer (that in fact was the distance missed)

Naradius DEATHFUNK	Posted - 2011.05.01 03:16:00 - [11] TBH, it's not the Falcon that needs nerfing (that's already happened), but some FC's need boosting. If you go into a fleet engagement, not anticipating ECM use and have effective measures to counteract it on standby, then you deserve to lose the field. Sounds to me, like the OP's fleet failed to collect intel, failed to nullify the opposing fleets strengths, and failed to protect there own strengths. ...it's up to the FC to decide how to play the battlefield...if he can't, then get another FC
ValentinaDLM Minmatar Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.05.01 07:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Naradius Edited by: Naradius on 01/05/2011 03:33:40 Edited by: Naradius on 01/05/2011 03:33:05 TBH, it's not the Falcon that needs nerfing (that's already happened), but some FC's need boosting. If you go into a fleet engagement, not anticipating ECM use and not have effective measures to counteract it on standby, then you deserve to lose the field. Sounds to me, like the OP's fleet failed to collect intel, failed to nullify the opposing fleets strengths, and failed to protect their own strengths. ...it's up to the FC to decide how to play the battlefield...if he can't, then get another FC I agree, I mean I was just informed in local, or rather my ECM alt was informed in local that BlackBirds are overpowered. I think they are a bit crazy though, 3x canes and 1x drake isn't a group I would take on a ferox, harby, slicer, BB, and Vaga in. Because they tried to make thier battlecruisers tackle and damage and everything else of course they didn't have slots to spare for ECCM or anything. While we had ships set up into more specific roles. They lost a drake and cane before they ran, but to blame that on the BB is a bit unfair. That is a Target calling issue (I was forced off the field and upon reentry they seemed to not bother with me and my BB) and that fleet composition matters a great deal. Battlecruisers are nice, but they are better when they can focus. That and after the drake died, even the caldari jammer would jam a cane by itself, that is a inherent weakness of minmatar ships. That and I just happened to be loaded with caldari and minmatar jammers. TL;DR Fleet composition and FC control mean alot more than a jamming ship. Falcon has suprise, BB has range, rook has damage, none of these are impossible to overcome.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Sick Tight Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.03 18:59:00 - [13] Originally by: **heard Cain Had a high sec corporation clash the other day. Which turned out for the worse. Hard to say what went wrong, whether the fleet moved slightly out of the repairers range (or the repairers didn't move closer, who knows) but eventually our tanking and DPS ability was gone. And then a Falcon appeared and jammed half the team. I was impressed. by the falcons ability to disable half a fleet. Anyone got any interesting strategies against a falcon.. or stories perhaps of their triumph over a fleet with a falcon. Depends on the range the Falcon is engaging at. Sniper ships, and even some hellcat fits can hit out there and drive them out. I've used a tracking computer fit pulse abaddon/apoc to drive them off real damn quick. Remote ECCM on your guardians does wonders as well. Originally by:** McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
Yabba Addict	Posted - 2011.05.03 19:49:00 - [14] Originally by: ****heard Cain Hmm I dont know whether ECM needs to be nerfed. to be honest. things were going ok. Oh my, someone on the losing side of a battle with falcons involved who isn't raging that ECM is OP. You my dear sir are a rare breed, we need more like you I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I'm a machine! And I can know much more.
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.04 09:23:00 - [15] Why people always think that the only solution to counter ECM is to bring more ships? Not all of us fly in fleets with more then 7 ships! We cannot have a sniper on standby just because some corp brings falcon or not. And ECCM doesnt do enough. Falcon can still jamm u 50% of a fight, 20% of a fight is relocking back. Have in mind, that we are in small fleets, so falcon ussualy go after dps ships. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
2ippy Amarr Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.04 10:19:00 - [16] You just need to be lucky, either have enough projected eccm, have someone undock an arty ship to instapop it, or be lucky enough to have your friends get some shots off to scare it off or even kill it Just yesterday, a blackbird (not a falcon but W/E) undocked and try to jam one of us to save his corpmate, solution was simple, I undocked an artymach and popped him before he even knew what was happening Cheers
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.05.04 10:21:00 - [17] Originally by: LordInvisible Why people always think that the only solution to counter ECM is to bring more ships? Not all of us fly in fleets with more then 7 ships! We cannot have a sniper on standby just because some corp brings falcon or not. And ECCM doesnt do enough. Falcon can still jamm u 50% of a fight, 20% of a fight is relocking back. Have in mind, that we are in small fleets, so falcon ussualy go after dps ships. You can add sensor boosters to reduce your "time locking back" issue (or remote Sebos) a sniper boat doesn't have to be "on standby", it can participate in the rest of the fight. There's other stuff you can do to harass the falcon. Have one of your interceptors run up to it, drop a bookmark, warp out and in to clear jamming, and hit the ECM boat with a target damper, maybe? Sure, your inty will probably get owned in retaliation, but dying is what they're for. Or with an ishkur you could do something similar, but unleash the ECM drones instead of damping to give it a taste of its own medicine. I mean, the effectiveness of tactics you can carry in your existing ship like a spare tire is limited, but it's there. IF you want really good effectiveness, you'll have to explicitly counter the things. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.07 13:24:00 - [18] SeBos to reduce locking time from 20% time of a fight to 10%? Yes, that helps alot.. And what would a sniper fitted mega do in a fight? Shoot close orbiting canes with rails? Get owned in few salvos from a cane, since snipers dont have OMG tank, right? Ceptor is meant to die, that still doesnt solve an issue of falcon keeping our dps jammed, only makes our fleet one man less. Good luck jamming falcon with 5 small ecm drones from ishkur. Only solution is that u bring more ships. Up to the point where system lags or u have to retreat due to lack of corp members that can engage in fight.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
BeachParty Caldari Semi Precious	Posted - 2011.05.07 19:09:00 - [19] Falcons ain't no big deal, deploy drones and damp. Falcons never want to get close to the fight, once range damped there out of the fight. The same works for logistics.
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.08 11:24:00 - [20] How many ships do fit damps in this days anyway? Even Arazus and Lachs rather fit other EW then damps. This solution is out of a question, since we are back at having a special ship ready just to be deployed if there is falcon on the field. You cannot trigger drones further out then 55km unless u are fitted just for this, which makes a moot point again. Your reply is worthless. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that

Vordak Kallager Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.05.08 21:03:00 - [21] Have everyone assign drones to a single tackler/frigate/ceptor and have him burn for the Falcon and gank it with the DPS of the fleet's drones. Uncloak an Arazu and nuke it's Targeting Range. Uncloak a Falcon and counterjam. Set up a Projected ECCM chain in your fleet to decrease the Falcon's effectiveness. Field a fleet that can throw DPS out to a Falcon's standard engagement range. HML Drakes can usually hit them with out having to move much, or 2x Tracking Computuer Abaddons w/ Scorch. Field a fleet whose DPS doesn't rely on having Target Locks, i.e. Myrmidons or Dominix. And there are countless other ways to counter a Falcon.
BeachParty Caldari Semi Precious	Posted - 2011.05.09 04:47:00 - [22] LordInvisable are you implying the falcon is invincible! As a veteran ECM pilot I am just saying, someone gets damps on me, I have to warp out and reapproch the fight. By this time the fight has been decided. This has been done to me several time when fighting snatch and a very effective tactic; the single most frustrating thing that can happen when your gang is counting on you to land the ECM. Snatch did it with a pair of drakes I believe. Your wrong deal with it. As for logi, damps work great as well.
Christopher AET Segmentum Solar Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2011.05.09 09:02:00 - [23] Falcon
Sutskop PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus	Posted - 2011.05.09 11:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Azelor Delaria Another Falcon or a blackbird is excellent for it. However, unless that Falcon is being targetted, once your Falcon decloaks the other one cloaks up, decloaks and is now jamming yours. You can play games with this all you want. Last I checked a Falcon has targeting delay after decloaking, so - no. Originally by: Azelor Delaria Second, sending drones after a Falcon usually doesn't work. A competent Falcon will be outside drone range in most respects, meaning that you need to have at least one ship capable of hitting out to 100km, or being able to land several ships on top of it immediately. Dominix, T2 Bouncers, dead armor Falcon. They either don't have a tank at all, or an armor plate. So it's not that hard to kill..


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