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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2011.05.04 20:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DrysonBennington on 04/05/2011 20:28:25 Edited by: DrysonBennington on 04/05/2011 20:27:35 Although the Gallente have a remote sensor dampening ship I think to balance out ECm across the board all races should have an ECM ship.
Sensor dampening is fine but an ECM ship completely nullifies any onboard weapon use.
As a Gallente character why should I take the time out of my training to train for the BlackBird when I should be able to train for my own character race's ECM ship?
A perfect name for the Gallente ECM ship would be the Chulyen.
Chulyen-The crow trickster of the Nootka or Tanaina often interchanged with Guguyni,Raven
A perfect name for an ECM ship as the pilot would know what modules are fitted but the intended target would only be able to guess as to what the ship is going to send it's way in the form of ECM attacks.
Looking for the perfect ship moduling programs that are free to use? Try the following:
Blender - 3D modeling
My Paint 0.9 - mesh creator
Gimp - paintboard
I liked My Paitn the best as it is an easy program to create surface meshes with. A surface mesh is a term where you first create the surface of the model on a 2D plane and then import the mesh into your model where the mesh then replaces the surface on the model where you can adjust the size and number of times that the mesh appears within a certain pixel range.
Blender is the best free 3D modeling program out there next to Sketch Up.
Gimp crashed on me alot during the initial start-up.
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Filth Hole
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Posted - 2011.05.04 20:53:00 -
[2]
Quote: Sensor dampening is fine but an ECM ship completely nullifies any onboard weapon use.
Drones, FOF missiles or use ECCM. ECM is powerful but not omnipotent.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:25:00 -
[3]
ECM is Caldari's ewar thing though. What would you give them instead if you made ECM ships for everyone else?
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2011.05.05 03:09:00 -
[4]
ECM War pretty much nullifies any ship on the field a fleet of BlackBirds could cripple a fleet in seconds allowing for combat ship's to come in and decimate the fleet.
The defending fleet should the ability to employ their own ECM ships to counter the Blackbird.
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Gaan Cathal
Caldari Angry Mustellid
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Posted - 2011.05.05 05:06:00 -
[5]
ECM is almost certainly, on bonused ships at least, the most potent form of EWAR - however I doubt it is any coincidence that it was assigned to the race least capable to armour (i.e. lowslot) tank, and the most dependant on multiple modules to function. In addition it is the only one with lowslot modules associated with it, which are borderline required to use effectively - further discouraging the use of lowslots to tank.
Without going substantially against the overall Gallente 'theme' in terms of ship design, you would produce an easily tankable jamming boat and make ECM severely over-powered.
I do understand your issue, Sensor Damping being generally considored currently the weakest of the four EWAR lines, but I think the solution there is a buff for the Gallente EWAR (probably lumped in with sustantive other Gallente-focused buffing to be frank), not to co-opt another EWAR line and break it in the process.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.05 05:25:00 -
[6]
Each race is supposed to have it's pro's and cons. What I've always bumped heads with is the fact that Caldari Ewar (though I admit it IS their thing), is more potent than the EWAR of other races. Combined with other benefits, it leaves many players feeling like the rolled the wrong class, so to speak.
Personally, I've felt for a long time that if you were to rate each race on armor and weapon systems, Caldari would have more five-star ratings than any other. They can't armor tank for **** and their drones suck. But other than that, where are they REALLY at a loss?
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Caldari 5
Amarr The Element Syndicate Blazing Angels Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.05 06:56:00 -
[7]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Gallente meant to be the Drones Race? and there are ECM Drones right?
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.05 07:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: DrysonBennington ECM War pretty much nullifies any ship on the field a fleet of BlackBirds could cripple a fleet in seconds allowing for combat ship's to come in and decimate the fleet.
Yes this is why blackbird fleets are the undisputed kings of subcap warfare and we never see anything else at all.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.05 09:11:00 -
[9]
ECM is the EW specialty of the Caldari
Amarr need a Tracking Disrupting Battleship Gallente need a Remote Sensor Dampening Battleship Minmatar need a Target Painting Battleship
All 3 in the mold of the Scorpion, ECM is king because CCP gave the Caldari an EW Battleship and did not give the other races EW Battleships.
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Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc. Red Shift Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.05 11:27:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Walextheone on 05/05/2011 11:28:44 I'd love to see some heavy buff to Gallente ships when it comes to dampeners.
Dedicating 2 midslots on let say a Myrmidon or a Domi with 2 scripted sensor dampeners should be so powerful that it would force enemies come up a close so that blaster would be viable once again.
Dampeners could even be chance based just as jamming
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Professional Retard
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Posted - 2011.05.05 11:35:00 -
[11]
ECM can be ok at times.
When its compared to other ewar, say a curses neuts or td, an arazus long point or damps, a rapiers long webs or tp bonus....its overpowered.
Falcons and other ecm ships are whats killing solo pvp or rather it is one of the things killing solo pvp. Solo roaming in your BC just to come across a small gang with a falcon or some *** with his falcon alt.
It is a bit unfair that if you take a 10v10 and 3 out of the 10 ships in the targeted gang are rooks/falcons, they can pretty much jam out your tacklers, RR and damage dealers.
But td's only reduce damage, neuts only effect people with no cap booster, damps do **** all, tp'in someone with a rapier is pretty much stupid as its web bonus overpowers it by a landslide.
ECM doesent need a buff, ECCM does or other forms of EWAR
But then it comes right back to what you have in your gang in relation to theirs.
So to the OP, it would make no sense to give every race an ecm ship when its caldaris thing
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.05 13:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 05/05/2011 13:09:37 Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 05/05/2011 13:08:54
Originally by: El'Niaga ECM Battleship crap
Is this a troll? I really can't tell.
Quote: should be so powerful that it would force enemies come up a close so that blaster would be viable once again.
As has been discussed, sensor damping buffs are a hilariously impractical way to buff blasters and not a good idea.
Oh and to the idiot of an OP: you can have ECM ships when Caldari have workable armour tanks, droneboats, laser ships, bonused neuting ships and nanoships. Hey while we're at it, why not let every race do everything? Nobody should have any weapon or EWAR superior to the others. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.05.05 17:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Is this a troll? I really can't tell.
He's been spamming ECM related posts and threads in every subforum, I'd say it is.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.06 09:32:00 -
[14]
No its not a troll. When one race can use their EW at sniper range with impunity and not be one shot, and the others can't that's an imbalance in game play.
You see with a Remote Sensor Dampening battleship you could force the enemy into range of blasters and hence fix the blaster problem. A slight boost to the other EWs might be needed but not a great one. A Target Painting Battleship could easily enable its fellows to hit smaller targets. A tracking disruption battleship much like a remote sensor dampening one would be a game changer. I mean those Mael alpha fleets not so useful if they can't hit the enemy....
It forces your opponent to also make other choices in fitting. Just fitting an ECCM or a Sensor Booster might not be enough if you had more EW platforms that could survive on todays battlefield.
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Rek Seven
Gallente Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
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Posted - 2011.05.06 11:17:00 -
[15]
I don't think all races should have ECM ships but all races other than candari need an E-war boost.
Why do Caldari have the only E-war battle ship? It's kind of unfair and i would like to see a ship like the megathron having a sensor damp bonus.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.06 13:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 06/05/2011 13:34:07
Quote: No its not a troll. When one race can use their EW at sniper range with impunity and not be one shot, and the others can't that's an imbalance in game play.
Right, yeah, the Scorpion is the be-all end-all of ECM ships. That's why all the whine posts are about the scorp and nobody ever flies Falcons or Rooks or... oh wait.
Quote: You see with a Remote Sensor Dampening battleship you could force the enemy into range of blasters
Umm, no you wouldn't. You are in a ship incapable of engaging a blaster boat at close range, and your lock range gets damped to the point you can't engage it any further out. Do you: A) Go in close and die in a fire or B) Lol warp away
Quote: I mean those Mael alpha fleets not so useful if they can't hit the enemy....
Fits are promptly modified and now you need an entire damp BS per Mael, and they'll still be able to hit at 30ish for ridiculous damage.
Quote: It forces your opponent to also make other choices in fitting. Just fitting an ECCM or a Sensor Booster might not be enough if you had more EW platforms that could survive on todays battlefield.
Right, because Scorpions are so survivable. You really are a tool.
Quote: Why do Caldari have the only E-war battle ship?
Because Caldari are the only ones that need a dedicated ship for their EWAR, which also has to use most of its lows, mids and rigs to be effective. Simple really. Anyone with a free mid slot can throw on a sensor damp on, and know what the difference in strength is between that and a bonused one? 11%. And of course there's the matter of the Scorpion having laughably poor offensive capabilities. So the ship you're asking for, as a true equivilent to the Caldari Scorpion, would have: - Slightly better damps - Laughable tank and dps. - A battleship price tag. Yeah, I can't see too many intelligent people flying that pile of fail.
Edit: And really, with a difference that small, why not just throw 4 sensor dampeners on a Hyperion or Dominix?
Also I feel sorry for you if you genuinely think sensor damp spam would fix blasters. Fun fact for you: An 800mm autocannon, single bonused with just 2 gyrostabs does 21 dps less than a Neutron Blaster Cannon II, but has better range, selectable damage type, no cap use and easy fitting. With the 3 gyros typical of a Maelstrom, it does only 9 less dps.
Factor in the ability to target resist holes and the greater damage projection, and the autocannons will outdamage the blasters every single time. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.05.06 14:50:00 -
[17]
Ok but then also nerf the ruptures, vexxors and thoraxes to be as strong as lolmoas.
Nerf taranis, stilletos and claws to be as strong as lol crows.
Nerf vagabonds, deimos and zealots to be as strong as lol eagles.
Nerf jags, wolfs and ishkurs to be harpys and hawks.
Nerf typhoons and geddons to ravens and maelstroms and abbadons to be rokhs.
In other words Caldari are really bad at pvp and the ecm is pretty much their only saving grace. Merlins, drakes and hookbills are really the only ships that are competitive with others in their class. Otherwise there is no reason to train caldari at all.
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
El Geo
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Posted - 2011.05.06 16:28:00 -
[18]
the reason you dont see other ewar ships on the field is becuase ecm is a simple concept, whereas using range damps to put your sniper fleet (range damps dont fail, if spread out 3 celestis could put 9 ships out of range) out of range of your enemy fleet seems to mind boggle most players, similarly so does using target disruptors (i was guilty of this but i see their uses now) so TD's can also remove alot of ships from firing range, target painters have their pro's and cons - everyone uses webs on rapier/huggin but if you use tp you can stay way outside 40km
all in all ecm is the easiest to use becuase it usually requires a direct target whereas the others (for fleet v fleet) need to be spread out which takes coordination
just my 2 cents
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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
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Posted - 2011.05.08 18:32:00 -
[19]
This is true El Geo, but how many times have you come across a fleet where snipers or employed thus necessitating the use of Sensor Dampener's?
My experience's have figured out that the ratio to close quarter's combat where sniper's are employed when compared to close range blaster boat's has been almost a 90 to 10 ratio. This mean's that 90% of the time ECM ships have been employed with fleet's because the fleet's are most often used for gate camp's, bubble camp's and station camp's. The remaining 10 percent of the time sniper's might be used is when the fleet has already set up in their ambush location.
It takes awhile to set up a proper sniper ship to be used in a fleet. The sniper has to burn or miky (miky is a term used to describe using a mircowarp drive versus an afterbuner) to a location maybe 100 to 140 km away from the ambush point in order for the sniper to be effective.
This movement takes maybe five to seven minutes to complete during which time another fleet can arrive and render the sniper's ability zero.
All because the roaming fleet had several ECM ship's within the fleet that took out the sniper ships cover.
Another question to ask is this. If your enemy builds a bigger and faster battleship that render's all of your ship's obsolete when engaging the new bs do you continue to use the old bs against the new bs hoping that by some miracle your older and slower ship's will knock the new bs out?
No you steal the enemies ship plans and build a ship comparable in strength to the enemy bs so your territory will be protected.
Perhaps each race does not need their own personalized ECM ship but rather a Universal ECM ship could be created similiar to how barge's, and the two SOE ships are non race specific but rather operational and task specific.
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