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Separate the Empires

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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 06:03:00 - [1] A small 'fix' to help players adapt to the harsh realities of life in EvE, I recommend that at least every Empire, possibly even every region, have at least three jumps of losec in-between. Remove the hisec high-ways, add a good buffer between each Empire that can be host of faction warfare at all times (not just scattered systems here and there, but completely standing between the empires), and you've got a very simple means of teaching players to learn to protect themselves. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Baraka Saibot	Posted - 2011.05.05 07:26:00 - [2] Yeah, they really need to learn that way, since the prices of everything will skyrocket.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2011.05.05 07:49:00 - [3] You couldnt add this to the post created just 5 hours before yours? Same Old Idea Not to mention that this idea is trundled out every month and shot down just as quickly. The reason for this is that its a bad idea, forcing carebears into LowSec is not going to improve the game. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.05.05 09:14:00 - [4] No
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 13:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Jint Hikaru You couldnt add this to the post created just 5 hours before yours? Same Old Idea Not to mention that this idea is trundled out every month and shot down just as quickly. The reason for this is that its a bad idea, forcing carebears into LowSec is not going to improve the game. Honestly, after following your link and realizing that I HAD read that post and just didn't understand a word of it, I have to commend you on your hippy-comprehension skills. Of course, you cannot expect someone to post an idea that adds a small hurdle to hisec life and have it unanimously accepted on these forums. I definitely didn't. But I still think it's valid. Btw, I'm not a pirate. Hisec player. Just an old one who knows that EvE = PvP. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2011.05.05 13:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Honestly, after following your link and realizing that I HAD read that post and just didn't understand a word of it, I have to commend you on your hippy-comprehension skills. Thanks, my Mum is an ageing hippy so I guess I picked some up while I was growing up. Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Btw, I'm not a pirate. Hisec player. Just an old one who knows that EvE = PvP. I am fairly carebare myself, but not afraid to go looking for Radar/Mag etc sites in LowSec and every so often I run one of the Pirate Epic arcs in 0.0, however... There are a lot of players who fully enjoy the game permanently in HiSec. Eve needs these players, they mine and build and prop up that side of the Eve economy. Being forced to travel through LowSec would put a lot of people off the game. Now, I agree that Eve is a PvP based game, but there are those of us who don't go activly looking for PvP. I see it as another danger that the game environment provides to make it exciting. Like rats, but with much better AI (most of the time!). These players work at avoiding PvP as part of their playstyle and further restricting them to one quarter of HiSec is a determental game experience. The only thing that splitting HiSec would bring to the game is more permanently gatecamped pipes that people need to travel down. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Jint Hikaru snip The only thing that splitting HiSec would bring to the game is more permanently gatecamped pipes that people need to travel down. Not even Rancer or Ammmaake is 23.5/7 camped. Also, increase the pipes 3-5 fold and see how that camping goes there. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Snagy	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:54:00 - [8] I like it... creates a true border between races which could be guarded. The effect of this should cause mods, minerals and ship prices to vary more between regions depending on what is abundant in those regions.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:01:00 - [9] No. This used to be in Eve at one time, CCP had to remove it because it ruined the game. This was tried and failed. Stop bringing it up repeatedly.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 05/05/2011 15:07:27 Supported. Regional markets would get a huge boost. This doesn't force people to low sec btw. It simply forces them to make a choice: stay in their circle of safety (albeit it would be smaller than now) or venture forth for riches and glory.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Goose99 on 05/05/2011 15:11:02 Originally by: Emperor Salazar Supported. Regional markets would get a huge boost. Stop sprouting baseless speculations. I take it you weren't around back then. It killed regional markets. I'm sure you can speculate on a few reasons why it did. We knew what happened when this was in effect, none of which were good for the market.
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:08:00 - [12] I could see this between enemy factions, but no way in hell would allies allow for lowsec to interfere with their trade routes.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard I could see this between enemy factions, but no way in hell would allies allow for lowsec to interfere with their trade routes. There is a fair point here. Allied factions such as Amarr and Caldari, or Gallente and Minmatar, would try to secure at least ONE trade lane between. Even with this said, though, even that trade lane could be through losec, just with higher NPC traffic and more FW priority. Concord protection, on the other hand, might be something that isn't guaranteed. And as for the shift between the current hisec bubble and multiple empire bubbles of protection, it could be written in as Concord being taxed with policing too much space, and decides to pull their operations out of borderland systems and leave it up to the Empires to protect. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Goose99 No. This used to be in Eve at one time, CCP had to remove it because it ruined the game. This was tried and failed. Stop bringing it up repeatedly. This was in EvE for a short period of time. We went from no-sec to a large bubble of protection fairly quickly. There was little room for development of single empires. In fact, to the other reply of regional trade markets, the reasons behind this failure was not the separation of empires in my opinion, but the massive additions the game was receiving by way of new ships, minerals and market data. I personally feel that the game has evolved enough, and it's playerbase, to support more specialized regional markets. Margin trades are becoming the norm, with the argument that micro-transaction bots who constantly update trade prices and ply the stellar highways are more damaging to the overall market of EvE than not. A trader-hauler's biggest risk shouldn't be a suicide-gank that is arguably distorting the insurance and alt mechanics already. It should be, in my honest opinion, an actual threat of intentionally dangerous space. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Goose99 Edited by: Goose99 on 05/05/2011 15:11:02 Originally by: Emperor Salazar Supported. Regional markets would get a huge boost. Stop sprouting baseless speculations. I take it you weren't around back then. It killed regional markets. I'm sure you can speculate on a few reasons why it did. We knew what happened when this was in effect, none of which were good for the market. Why you so scared man? The game was young back then. There are more people now and plenty of tools to overcome this "obstacle." People would adapt and make a fortune. Stop crying.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Originally by: Goose99 Edited by: Goose99 on 05/05/2011 15:11:02 Originally by: Emperor Salazar Supported. Regional markets would get a huge boost. Stop sprouting baseless speculations. I take it you weren't around back then. It killed regional markets. I'm sure you can speculate on a few reasons why it did. We knew what happened when this was in effect, none of which were good for the market. Why you so scared man? The game was young back then. There are more people now and plenty of tools to overcome this "obstacle." People would adapt and make a fortune. Stop crying. Meh, he was simply posting the obvious counter-argument of those players who equate losec to instant gate-camped death. I started a new character recently and got to watch the chatter in the NPC corps. Six year old characters giving sage advice on how dangerous losec is, how there are 30 pirates on every gate, yadda yadda. Funny, when I go into losec hunting pirates with a few buddies, nobodies ever around. Seriously flying for hours and no action ... Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon I started a new character recently and got to watch the chatter in the NPC corps. Six year old characters giving sage advice on how dangerous losec is, how there are 30 pirates on every gate, yadda yadda. Thats the real crux of the problem. I know quite a few "vets" who have spent +5 years playing the game and NEVER leave high sec. They are deathly afraid of low sec. I don't know where this fear began or how it has managed to perpetuate so well, but it astounds me that people can be so oblivious to the truth of the matter. Low sec really is quite a barren wasteland, especially on weekdays.
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.05.05 19:21:00 - [18] I would like to see islands of hisec, connected by midsec, surrounded by losec, surrounded by nullsec. Whats midsec?: 0.6, 0.5 and 0.4 systems become midsec, or dynamic-sec... where the effective security status changes due to player interations, for example (but not limited to) killing people with +ve sec status lowers it, killing people with -ve sec status raises it. If its done in such a way that the sum of all dynamic-sec changes is in equilibrium, it ought not change the game too drastically - it'll just mean people will need to pay more attention to whats going on. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.05 19:26:00 - [19] It was once in the game and failed miserably. Stop bringing it up. Also with the EVE population much larger than it was when it failed then if this is put back into place it will fail even harder. Moving to another empire will be near impossible as gate campers will be EVERYWHERE. Hell some corps will wind up having wars over what they claim to be their gates. Plus, with Jita being the main economic hub. Caldari will be immensely overpowered. ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.05.05 19:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Hell some corps will wind up having wars over what they claim to be their gates. People would fight over space lanes? Wow....that would be terrible
Snagy	Posted - 2011.05.05 22:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Plus, with Jita being the main economic hub. Caldari will be immensely overpowered. Disagree... it would actually create stronger trade hubs in each of the empires whereby the mods, ships, minerals of that empire would have the best pricing in those hubs as opposed to everyone flying to Jita to buy and sell everything and anything in the game for the best price.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 22:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Snagy Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Plus, with Jita being the main economic hub. Caldari will be immensely overpowered. Disagree... it would actually create stronger trade hubs in each of the empires whereby the mods, ships, minerals of that empire would have the best pricing in those hubs as opposed to everyone flying to Jita to buy and sell everything and anything in the game for the best price. Some forget that Jita became the major trade hub due to players making it so. Yulai was the trade hub before, but when they changed the highway gates around, Jita evolved into it. Some people prefer Walmart's and Costco's. Some prefer the mom-and-pop shops on mainstreet to have a chance. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.05 23:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Hell some corps will wind up having wars over what they claim to be their gates. People would fight over space lanes? Wow....that would be terrible Agreed. Absolutely miserable that players would take responsibility for their own safety. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Ji'kahr Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2011.05.05 23:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon A small 'fix' to help players adapt to the harsh realities of life in EvE, I recommend that at least every Empire, possibly even every region, have at least three jumps of losec in-between. Remove the hisec high-ways, add a good buffer between each Empire that can be host of faction warfare at all times (not just scattered systems here and there, but completely standing between the empires), and you've got a very simple means of teaching players to learn to protect themselves. I think this is a good idea. Like many others, I don't see why it's such a BAD thing to have wars break out or people fight over anything in a game....about space battles. War is the economic engine of EVE. Almost everything you make or buy is related to space battles. Think about this from the perspective of your character, not the player. If the Amarr Empire and Minmatar republic are at war, then why should a 'carebear' from either side be allowed to travel freely to the nation of the enemy? Why shouldn't they be separated by areas of low-sec? During the cold war, where do you think an American and a Soviet Russian could meet and conspire/ trade with one another? Afghanistan? Yes, you are right...low-sec! I also like the idea of regions being separated from each other, and more distinct. The Amarr Empire for one is a feudalistic society divided into at least five fiefdoms ruled by the Holders. Each of these regions would/ should be culturally unique and distinct. To top if off, there are five races of 'Amarrian'. There is a lot of potential here for 'flavours' or role=play, but it ends up being a bland monochrome. In the Amarrian empire at least, there could be a civil war in Amarr of sorts between the five heirs. Though I hate to say it, this could be about the legitimacy of the Empress Jamyl Sarum as rightful heir. That would mean that as an Amarrian, you would have to decide which of the 5 heirs you were aligned with, you would be at war with at least one if not more of the other Amarrian factions. Yes, it would be like faction war in high-sec, between regions. The same thing could happen in the Minmatar republic of course, although it would be an inter-tribal or regional war. Again, roughly five different factions within Minmatar high sec fighting each other for power. The same for Caldari space as well, and possibly Gallente. If things became more expensive as a result, who cares? I don't see prices going up for those who stay in their regions. Only inter-regional trade would be more dangerous/ profitable/ expensive, since it would mean hauling through low sec. The way it could be explained from an EVE story line POV is that a new dark ages has begun, and CONCORD can no longer afford to keep the highways between the empire(s) or even regions safe. This would encourage each region of Empire to further develop it's own economy as well as cultural identity, allow more PvP for Pirates and Anti-Pirates, more profit for traders, etc.
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2011.05.06 02:15:00 - [25] couple probles with this. Big one is most bears are content to stay own space. You get that level 4 you like, you stay there. Only leave space if bored. Lots of coding to give people one more reason to not move. Other problems is it doesn't really foster pvp. gate camps aren't pvp. I have sat on them on the combat char....its a necessary crap detail in 0.0, but it ain't pvp. You and your freinds all have points/scram/webs, have dps, probbaly someone who instalocks for cloakies...poeple dying to this should not be a surprise. 0.0 has bubbles, low sec likes disco balls. Tricks you should not be surprised work lol. TBH...ganking empire runners ranks above gate camps on the pvp scale...and we have that in game already. Have to find the target, have to bait them. worst case have to pop them in a straight gank before concord pops you when they don't take the bait. When people cna think more highly of suddenly ninjya's than a low sec gate humping ...you are doing something wrong lol.
General Domination	Posted - 2011.05.06 15:28:00 - [26] Dear CCP, that would be plausable, and I generally like the idea. But I am fear the this would make the caldari regions even more stronger because of Jita. This won¦t be possible without an increase of sentry damage, because of the trade routes. Otherwhise the other regions would collapse. However I support the idea if CCP find a way to prevent those problems, because Jita is really the greatest tradehub, maybe we need different taxes for the regions to control those problems.
cyndrogen	Posted - 2011.05.06 18:28:00 - [27] Yeah and everyone and their mother will just move to Caldari space, a few jumps from Jita. Sure!
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2011.05.06 22:28:00 - [28] For those mentioning about Jita, please understand (in case your new, and don't remember), Jita hasn't always been the trade hub. It was made so, in fact, by players. It's not the right (forum) to quote Mr. (Herbert), but the (trade) will flow. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings	Posted - 2011.05.06 23:06:00 - [29] Only if there were a variety of pathways through. I would support this IF there were at least 3-4+ different paths from empire to empire.
Griptus	Posted - 2011.05.06 23:15:00 - [30] It's a good idea but, the only way it can work is if every empire is filled with a full spectrum of asteroids and they get rid of stargates and allow all ships to jump between systems- jumping from any location in the origin system and arriving in a random location anywhere in the destination system.

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