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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:42:00 -
[1]
If you shoot a ninja looter, how long do they have to retaliate against you?
I was running a mission today and a ninja looter appeared and stole from a wreck. Not really thinking about it I shot at them, and they warped off before I could finish the job.
Now I knew doing that would give them kill rights against me, but I thought it only lasted 15 minutes. So I warped out and waited the timer out.
Flew back shortly after the time ran out figuring it was safe, but they still have kill rights against me and popped my ship.
Yay for them, whatever.
Onto the point of this thread - how long do they have rights to kill you once you shoot them? I thought it was only 15 mins. I didn't kill their loot ship, I took 1 volley at them which wiped out like half their shields before they warped out.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:45:00 -
[2]
There is an aggression timer in the upper left corner of the screen that should tell you how long you have aggression with anyone else, and how long they have aggression toward you.
If it says you do not have aggression and you do, then either you're at war with them or it's bugged. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:47:00 -
[3]
I waited out the aggression timer. That's what I'm getting at. There was no aggression timer showing when I warped back to the mission location, yet they were red to me and popped me without concord intervention.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:50:00 -
[4]
They can shoot your cans to extend aggro on you without you knowing it. Consider it part of CCP's commitment to :excellence:
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:52:00 -
[5]
Really? So what, they waited for me to warp in, shot a can, and that gave them kill rights?
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.05 22:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Crista Feraton Really? So what, they waited for me to warp in, shot a can, and that gave them kill rights?
No, they scrammed one of your wrecks the whole time you were gone so the 15 minute timer kept refreshing.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:02:00 -
[7]
Hmmm...that's something new that I haven't seen before.
Is that normal? Or is it some form of exploit? Is the only way to get around that just to log out for a few hours once somebody does something like that?
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:10:00 -
[8]
You could finish the job you started by shooting at them in the first place, you could do something other than mission. If you try to go back and finish your mission and they are still around the system then you run the risk of getting caught out.
The best option is not to shoot at people you don't want to be bothered by.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:11:00 -
[9]
I understand the don't shoot people part.
My concern is that if I go back to the mission in say 2 hours from now, will that guy be able to attack me again if he just sits there scramming a wreck?
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:18:00 -
[10]
If he keeps hanging about in local for that whole time then there's a good chance.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:21:00 -
[11]
Well I logged back in about 30 mins later and he was still in the system.
Oh well. Thanks for the info.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:25:00 -
[12]
of course the other option (duh i forgot) is to fly out to the mission in a cheap speedy ship and quickly abandon all wrecks. Pretty sure that blue wrecks won't allow anyone to extend aggro on you. You would have to do this for all pockets in the mission. do this, wait 20 minutes (5 extra for good measure) then get back to business.
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Grumpymunky
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Grumpymunky on 05/05/2011 23:42:45
Originally by: Lady Spank of course the other option (duh i forgot) is to fly out to the mission in a cheap speedy ship and quickly abandon all wrecks. Pretty sure that blue wrecks won't allow anyone to extend aggro on you. You would have to do this for all pockets in the mission. do this, wait 20 minutes (5 extra for good measure) then get back to business.
Blue wrecks are still your property, and subject to the same well-thought-out aggression mechanics as all your other property.
Edit: The only way to be sure would be for yourself or a corp member to fly back there and remove all the wrecks, cans, anything with your name on it... and then all the remaining mission rats and all their wrecks.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:47:00 -
[14]
Well there wasn't that many wrecks to be bothered with worry about, only about 20 when he showed up. I had only just started flying the mission.
But here's the question to those of you familiar with this - is this a bug/exploit? Or are the mechanics designed for this? It seems really silly to purpose program this kind of rule.
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Grumpymunky
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Posted - 2011.05.06 04:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crista Feraton But here's the question to those of you familiar with this - is this a bug/exploit? Or are the mechanics designed for this? It seems really silly to purpose program this kind of rule.
It's both a feature and a bug. The other guy is allowed to do it, but if you petition your loss the way you described it, you're likely to get your stuff back.
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Tea2theBag
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
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Posted - 2011.05.06 11:50:00 -
[16]
All this could have been avoided if you were not a spastic.
But I like spastics. Keep going.
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Lucas Schuyler
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Posted - 2011.05.06 14:40:00 -
[17]
As was pointed out, you will want to abandon all wrecks to be safe from this tactic.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.05.06 14:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lucas Schuyler As was pointed out, you will want to abandon all wrecks to be safe from this tactic.
dont abandon wrecks... just shoot those scrubs in their harmless frigates and cruisers!
SHOW THEM YOUR WAR FACE!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN! |
Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.06 14:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: Lucas Schuyler As was pointed out, you will want to abandon all wrecks to be safe from this tactic.
dont abandon wrecks... just shoot those scrubs in their harmless frigates and cruisers!
SHOW THEM YOUR WAR FACE!
lol...yeah sure. I was in a PvE fitted Myrmidon and he was in a PVP fitted Hurricane. I had no chance.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Crista Feraton on 09/05/2011 15:02:07 Here's an update on this in case anybody is interested, apparently what he did was legal. I submitted a petition about explaining he was able to extend the aggression timer without my knowledge and as I result I lost a ship.
Here's the response I just got:
Quote: 2011.05.09 14:52:00 GM Icini ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello, GM Icini here.
I'm sorry to hear about your ship loss. Unfortunately I am not permitted to reimburse your Myrmidon as our server-side logs do not indicate that a bug/lag related problem was the reason for your loss.
Our reimbursement policies are very strict and we can only reimburse if we are able to verify what exactly happened. I hope that you understand my position and that you will recover swiftly from the loss.
Best regards, GM Icini EVE Online Customer Support
So what I'm getting from this response is that it's legal to scram wrecks/cans to extend the aggro timer without the player knowing it.
Note: I really don't care about losing the Myrmidon. Not a big deal, I've replaced it already. But what bugs me is how I lost it, the guy was able to extend the aggression timer I had on me without my knowledge. That seems like one hell of a bug to me, but according to CCP it's not.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Crista Feraton Here's an update on this in case anybody is interested,
also, enjoy your slapped wrist for posting a GM response - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN! |
Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Signal11th on 09/05/2011 15:47:25
Originally by: Lady Spank If he keeps hanging about in local for that whole time then there's a good chance.
fly back in a force/cloaky recon and spoil his day! I must admit I havent got a problem with the act of extending th eagression timer what I would be ****ed about is the fact that I have no way of knowing.
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Murtal Liven
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Posted - 2011.05.09 16:45:00 -
[23]
I'd just like to point out in case nobody else has thought of this that this tactic will only work to extend the aggro timer for a max of around two hours, or until the cans auto-pop from timing out.
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.05.09 17:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Murtal Liven I'd just like to point out in case nobody else has thought of this that this tactic will only work to extend the aggro timer for a max of around two hours, or until the cans auto-pop from timing out.
Four hours...since these guys are ninja salvagers..once wrecks start to evaporate they will just salavage the remaining wrecks to create new cans which have a two hour timer on their own. --
Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Crista Feraton
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Posted - 2011.05.09 18:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Signal11th I must admit I havent got a problem with the act of extending th eagression timer what I would be ****ed about is the fact that I have no way of knowing.
That's exactly what is ****ing me off. I had no way of knowing I still had an aggression timer.
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Hazel Starr
Krypteia Brotherhood
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:43:00 -
[26]
I really don't understand why empire mission runners give a flying fig about folks stealing loot from their wrecks..?
-- Haze
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:11:00 -
[27]
Because many of them loot or salvage those wrecks and sell (directly or indirectly) the stuff for money. They feel entitled to it. Never mind that in the case of salvage CCP has explicitly and repeatedly stated that the salvage belongs to whoever gets it rather than who created the wreck, they still feel it is theirs. Some get quite bent out of shape over it. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
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Brannor McThife
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:49:00 -
[28]
I'm intrigued as to why you shot at him in your PvE BC? Was he in a small ship? Was he smacking you? Did he just steal your loot? Or shoot your rats?
my alt never seems to find people like you...
-G
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Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:55:00 -
[29]
wow, guys! nobody cares WHY he shot at him. the point is that a) the timer in the upper left corner does not show everything, and b) the GM obviously didn't understand your problem in the petition, so I'd escalate it.
you get those "ghost" timers from lowsec sentries too, when you pass them without being shot. would be great if CCP would finally come around to fixing this. imo they can keep the extension tactics in, but for gods sake, show the proper timers!
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:34:00 -
[30]
HINT 1: Your whole corp can shoot the thief, but only he can shoot you.
NO, it doesn't apply to your NPC corp, which is why CCP created player corps.
All the tools are there for you to actually win these encounters, you're just not doing it.
Hint #2: When your only PVP experience is repeatedly being podded in Amamake (can't work out how to avoid...?) don't shoot people.
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Khanya Trace
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:14:00 -
[31]
if you shoot at somebody and have wrecks with items in it out, they can shoot you for 4:15 hours. 2 for the wreck, 2 for the can that appeared when they salvaged and 15 lingering timer.
So, maybe dont shoot at people if you dont want to pvp.
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Victoria Wolfe
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:41:00 -
[32]
I appreciate you sharing this information. I run a lot of missions and while I know not to shot at the loot thieves, I had no idea that they could extend the aggression timer in this way. It's probably something all mission runners should be made aware of.
I may be mistaken, and it may depend on your overview settings, but you can tell who you're still eligible to shoot in local by the red skull on their character portrait. Chances are if you shot at them and can still shoot at them, then they can shoot back. ___
"Speak for yourself sir, I intend to live forever" - Commander William Riker |
Calfis
Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Crista Feraton
Originally by: Signal11th I must admit I havent got a problem with the act of extending th eagression timer what I would be ****ed about is the fact that I have no way of knowing.
That's exactly what is ****ing me off. I had no way of knowing I still had an aggression timer.
It doesn't show you because if you knew you would not have undocked. Consider it a nerf for ppl always hiding in a station because of aggro
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Rakkeer Fundami
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Posted - 2011.05.15 22:16:00 -
[34]
Couple things you can do.
One is keep a PVP fit ship for this stuff. Nothing like warping out, then coming back and taking said asshat down. Chances are he will still be in his Loot ship. This tactic works far better on can flippers, as 99% of the time they think your grabbing a hauler to get your ore. This of course assume you wish to visit violence upon their boat.
Secondly if you have no wish for PVP, simply shoot your wrecks. He gets no salvage and can bugger off or be silly and desperate and hang around. Either way you win. I've had them call me names in local, and let me tell you ninja loot tears are pretty tasty. You'd be surprised how angry some get when you refuse to play their game.
Then there are the guys who think your alone and will stay that way. I prefer to let them keep going all red and stuff while calling in 2 or 3 corp members to 'splode them. Nothing funner than a 3 on 1 assbeating of a clown who's only shot at a PVP win is to mess with PVE setup mission runners. They usually are the first to cry foul also, adding even more fun to the already hilarious explosion you saw earlier.
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Jazzmyne
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:12:00 -
[35]
Maybe he never ninja looted, but was just salvaging? This happened to me awhile back. I was salvaging someones wreaks, but I never ninja looted anything. He fire at me and concord blew up his pretty battleship.
It could be you got aggro because he never stoled anything from you, explaining why he was able to attack you.
Because you attacked him first? Just my two cents, he could of been exploiting.
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Johnathan Billabong
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Posted - 2011.05.24 19:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Calfis
Originally by: Crista Feraton
Originally by: Signal11th I must admit I havent got a problem with the act of extending th eagression timer what I would be ****ed about is the fact that I have no way of knowing.
That's exactly what is ****ing me off. I had no way of knowing I still had an aggression timer.
It doesn't show you because if you knew you would not have undocked. Consider it a nerf for ppl always hiding in a station because of aggro
Exactly. If you ask me this is CCP's response to mission runners simply docking up when they have an aggro timer or see a war target in system. As the system works now, docking up is WAY too overpowered and favors carebears way too much. You can be waiting all day to kill someone but if they dock up theres absolutely NOTHING you can do to kill them. Everyone in EVE should be made killable, not invincible like mission runners are when they dock up.
And you're not ****ed about there not being an agression timer that you could see, you're ****ed because you got ganked by someone smarter than you. Blame CCP all you want but the game is working how its supposed to.
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Joz Yavavich
Gallente The Queue
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Posted - 2011.05.24 23:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Khanya Trace if you shoot at somebody and have wrecks with items in it out, they can shoot you for 4:15 hours. 2 for the wreck, 2 for the can that appeared when they salvaged and 15 lingering timer.
So, maybe dont shoot at people if you dont want to pvp.
Not so true. it can actually be extended till downtime if there are rats left. Wrecks time out, make new ones. Doesn't matter who is in the mission killing them, they will still belong to the mission owner.
But yes, don't shoot at people you do not want to fight. For that matter don't yellow box us unless you re going shoot, it leaves me feeling unfulfilled.
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Johnathan Billabong
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Posted - 2011.05.25 20:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Joz Yavavich
Originally by: Khanya Trace if you shoot at somebody and have wrecks with items in it out, they can shoot you for 4:15 hours. 2 for the wreck, 2 for the can that appeared when they salvaged and 15 lingering timer.
So, maybe dont shoot at people if you dont want to pvp.
Not so true. it can actually be extended till downtime if there are rats left. Wrecks time out, make new ones. Doesn't matter who is in the mission killing them, they will still belong to the mission owner.
But yes, don't shoot at people you do not want to fight. For that matter don't yellow box us unless you re going shoot, it leaves me feeling unfulfilled.
Thats even better. If PVE players are allowed to dock indefinitely then PVP players should be allowed to extend agression indefinitely.
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San Severina
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.26 08:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Johnathan Billabong
Originally by: Calfis
Originally by: Crista Feraton
Originally by: Signal11th I must admit I havent got a problem with the act of extending th eagression timer what I would be ****ed about is the fact that I have no way of knowing.
That's exactly what is ****ing me off. I had no way of knowing I still had an aggression timer.
It doesn't show you because if you knew you would not have undocked. Consider it a nerf for ppl always hiding in a station because of aggro
Exactly. If you ask me this is CCP's response to mission runners simply docking up when they have an aggro timer or see a war target in system. As the system works now, docking up is WAY too overpowered and favors carebears way too much. You can be waiting all day to kill someone but if they dock up theres absolutely NOTHING you can do to kill them. Everyone in EVE should be made killable, not invincible like mission runners are when they dock up.
And you're not ****ed about there not being an agression timer that you could see, you're ****ed because you got ganked by someone smarter than you. Blame CCP all you want but the game is working how its supposed to.
Lol, have enjoyed all these angry ninja looter posts. you guys are just as bad as those pathetic scammers that hang around Jita all day spamming their sad little scammer contracts in local. As others have said, dont shoot unless you have a PVP boat & possibly friends nearby. Some of these characters will summon a sh 1 t storm of meta gaming fury on your a$$ as soon as you aggro. Be ready.
Ninjas - get bent! __________________________________________________
No sympathy for the Devil! Always remember that....
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Ynot Eyob
Minmatar Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.05.26 10:42:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ynot Eyob on 26/05/2011 10:43:13
Its really easy to keep the timer going.
Just warp scram 1 of the wreck on grid and keep it scrammed till you get back, the timer will constant reset as long at one keep the scram going.
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Wojomon
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:42:00 -
[41]
If you take a look on your character sheet there is a tab that says kill rights. I am pretty sure that this should have the correct timer on it.
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