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Lonesome Joe
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Posted - 2011.05.06 03:54:00 -
[1]
A frigate that hits at 8.4K? A frigate that hits at 12K? Viable? Fail? Does it have to be under 5K or GTFO? Some frigs with faction mods can tackle and hit at ranges farther out than the typical close range fit. I'm just wondering if they are generally considered a bad idea. Mostly in a small roaming fleet.
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Renarla
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Posted - 2011.05.06 04:28:00 -
[2]
you have 3 options:
<10k. your in web range, might as well just go all the way in.
>10k. out of web range, theres merit to staying out here
>25k. out of heavy neut range, theres merit to staying out here
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Zan Shiro
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Posted - 2011.05.06 06:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zan Shiro on 06/05/2011 06:07:19
only fail if you fit to fail imo. Its not liked by some...but fotm not always the right path either lol.
Some things to set up for fail I see are:
you don't give it speed. Going lr, really in best interest to be faster than the other guy so they never close to you. Not saying don't armour plate the boat you got in mind (your fit...your call lol), just remember plate slows you down.
you don't give it tracking. Long guns generally fire slower and have less tracking. You want this good since like say in the case of projectiles...arty doesn't spew rounds like ac, you want every shot counting.
and you'll have to think about your tackle mids. POint almost mandatory due to range, problem lies in how/if you slow people down. Will a web fit, and do you want it on there? An aryt jag fit I am eyeing has no webs...cap booster there to keep power the mwd it needs to keep range. With this fit...yeah, warrior II's are not something I'd like to see too much of lol.
Last one...if enough webs in the fleet, could be less of a problem.
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Wedding Peach
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Posted - 2011.05.06 06:29:00 -
[4]
There is the Imperial Navy Slicer which can hit out over 20km with Medium Pulses...
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I am the Love Angel, Wedding Peach, and I am very displeased by your lack of love! |
Zan Shiro
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Posted - 2011.05.06 06:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Wedding Peach
There is the Imperial Navy Slicer which can hit out over 20km with Medium Pulses...
250 arty jag with tit s or du hits for 17+11 decent skills. think all level 5 is 18+12, no eft to reconfirm though. This no te iirc...
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Lonesome Joe
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Posted - 2011.05.06 06:52:00 -
[6]
Considering 125mm rails, possibly faction web and a Fleeting disruptor. Around 12K striking with plutonium I believe and I can still utilize faction web and disruptor of course. Not sure if even possible with a MWD fitting wise, but a faction AB will fit. Cap is horrible and it seems a faction Nos you still have to maintain a range of 8.5K for it to work, which puts you in web territory yourself. Seems tossing the web on your end, adding a cap recharger in it's place, hopefully fitting a MWD and basically trying to hit outside of 10K range. Leaves an extra high slot but that seems to be the sacrifice. Curious if a ship like the Cruor with its web bonus can work in around 8K range as it will always be faster due to superior web.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
Sanctum of Citizens
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Posted - 2011.05.06 10:08:00 -
[7]
A Kestrel can hit at 40km.
A Stealth Bomber can hit at 110km.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.06 10:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: GyokZoli
A Kestrel can hit at 40km.
A Stealth Bomber can hit at 110km.
nevermind a harpy
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
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Posted - 2011.05.06 10:57:00 -
[9]
[Harpy, So going to die]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[empty high slot]
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
103+12, 90ish DPS with spike.
Excellent for KM whoring
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Who, me? |
Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.05.06 11:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Renarla
you have 3 options:
<13k. you're in overloaded web and roughly scram and medium neut range, might as well just go all the way in.
>13k. out of overloaded web range, theres merit to staying out here
>25k. out of heavy neut range, theres merit to staying out here
Fixed. If your plan is staying out of web range you probably want to be outside 13km because the other guy can just overload for a while to pull you in and probably scram you. Granted you can get faction webs for further but less likely than someone overloading.
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Lonesome Joe
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Posted - 2011.05.06 15:58:00 -
[11]
So with either an artillery or rail frigate I am, in most situations, wanting to be at 13K+ range. Otherwise I might as well be at 1K. Is this the consensus?
Thanks
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ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Zaratha Zarati
Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.05.06 16:40:00 -
[12]
well, there is also merit in staying out of smartbomb range if you are fighting a ship that is likely to have one. So if you are webbing and scramming a battleship in a rifter staying out of smartbomb range is a good idea.
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Adian Grey
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Posted - 2011.05.06 17:13:00 -
[13]
Long point tackle frigs of all kinds like to stay in that 14-24km range for lots of reasons. Plus you can do arty/beam/missle/even rail setups with something as simple as a Tracking disruptor against turret ships that will work wonders.
A personal favorite of mine is a Malediction type ships with an MWD, Long Point, and Tracking Disruptor. 80+ tackles on the pvp char with a setup like that.
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Mr Karamazov
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Posted - 2011.05.06 17:31:00 -
[14]
I am currently using a long range sniper slicer for gang assist.
2x medium beam t2
gistii b-type mwd
sensor booster (targetting range)
2x heatsink t2
1x tracking enhancer t2
2x overdrive
2x small projectile range rigs
1 small polycarbon
120dps with aurora at 60km range
speed, 4000m/s, 5600 o/h,
With this ship your speed is better than or equal to many interceptors, allowing you to keep range to them and snipe, no point I know but often they pop before they can warp anyway, and I have teammates for points. With a snake set you an go faster than drams, but again they can always warp off
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.06 17:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mr Karamazov
I am currently using a long range sniper slicer for gang assist.
2x medium beam t2
gistii b-type mwd
sensor booster (targetting range)
2x heatsink t2
1x tracking enhancer t2
2x overdrive
2x small projectile range rigs
1 small polycarbon
120dps with aurora at 60km range
speed, 4000m/s, 5600 o/h,
With this ship your speed is better than or equal to many interceptors, allowing you to keep range to them and snipe, no point I know but often they pop before they can warp anyway, and I have teammates for points. With a snake set you an go faster than drams, but again they can always warp off
Then again, why not bring a nanoed sniper HAC?
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.05.06 18:11:00 -
[16]
OP:
Kiting is usually good idea, doesnt matter if its 9k, 13k or 24k. Ofc you must know your ship + your target and decide if its not better idea to exploit his other weakness or use other advantages of your ship.
What should you consider when deciding at what range to stay? Ofc capabilities of ship to mitigate /and project/ damage at range, keep that range vs target and keep point.
But consider this too :
- 6,3k is range for small neut and even 1 small neut can make big difference when your active tanked or cap dependant frig gets into its range
- 6,8k for small nos, its important especially for keeping scram vs neuts, but can make big difference in frig pvp too
- 9-10.8k is range for scram, absolutely avoid that in mwd kiting ships
- 10-13k range for web, little bit less deadly, but basically same as scram for kiters
- 12,6k for med neuts
- 24-28k for long point
- 25k for heavy neut, generally only tackle inties can avoid them efficiently, but their cycle timer is 24s so they are not that deadly vs frigs
+ much much more things, especially capabilities of your target to track you or project dps at range
Dont forget that faction mods and command bonuses can GREATLY improve point/web range - up to 26k for webs, 19k for scrams and 50k for disruptors.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Mr Karamazov
waste of slicer
Then again, why not bring a nanoed sniper HAC?
Let him think he is important for his gang... If it was competent gang theyd shoot him themselves anyway.
Originally by: Millie Clode
Excellent for KM whoring
You want recon with multiple sensor boosters to km ***** so you can do that efficiently from 240k.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.06 18:17:00 -
[17]
Quote:
gang assist.
If your pathetic dps is really that useful, I suggest you find yourself a more competant gang.
(And a ship that actually has a purpose)
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ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Metal Icarus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.06 18:32:00 -
[18]
I want to try a MWD hookbill with light missles and a long point. I think it would be able to kite stuff isn't a dram.
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Lonesome Joe
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Posted - 2011.05.06 20:10:00 -
[19]
I guess the main problem is that in a roaming gang you never know what you may encounter. What's perfect against one opponent is weak for another. But I've been curious, I've seen long range set ups on a Jaguar, Comet, even a Daredevil. Seems that unless you know you are going up against a frigate gang that otherwise you must fit to either be under the guns of your opponent(s) or beyond web/scram range at let's say 13-15K. Also if you hit at above 10K you would need a MWD to avoid something sneaking up on you, unless you knew in advance the opposing gang had no frigs in it. Which all in all makes a small faction Nos at 8.6K kinda useless.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.06 20:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 06/05/2011 20:11:08
Quote:
I want to try a MWD hookbill with light missles and a long point. I think it would be able to kite stuff isn't a dram.
Good luck fitting that with 200 CPU to work with.
Just get a Crow, that's the only one that can really pull off light missile kiting and the result is still mediocre.
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ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.06 20:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Metal Icarus
I want to try a MWD hookbill with light missles and a long point. I think it would be able to kite stuff isn't a dram.
CPU will be the issue here. Its almost impossible to conceive a Hook fit that is survivable and includes a MWD, Std Missiles, and a long-point. Besides, Std Missiles give you 60km range, which in my opinion, adds too much range to make a point viable, especially since you can, with velocity/flight time rigs, get rockets to long point range, with higher DPS. So, in my opinion, a Hawk or Hook with Std Missiles, should be treated more as long range fire support or non-pointing, anti-tackle (kind of a mini-AML Cara). And, if this is the role you want to fill, a Kestrel or Hawk will actually out-damage the Hook at either a very cheap, or cheaper cost. For kiting setups using missiles, I'd go rockets all the time. The only time I'd use Std Missiles is for the long-range fire support role, and then I'd use a Kestrel or Hawk (or even a nano'd AML Cara fit).
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