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Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.09.05 10:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
I haven't read everything in the thread, so I apologize if I'm parroting someone else ideas.
I can imagine that a player with a large inventory that goes inactive could come back to the game with nothing, or a repair bill that will inhibit the player from having what should be a happy return to the game. Even insurance can be tricky if you come back and the costs of things have gone up so drastically that it makes even pulling the ship that you could afford to lose before unable to fly.
I know that I have come back to the game before and had a bit of this issue. Luckilly I had some other high value items that I could sell that were rather worthless before. Basic modules come to mind. I have a rather large reserve now in case that happens again,, as I play more games than just eve online.
I'm also going to talk a bit about repair costs and other money sinks. SWG had item decay, and it was a huge distraction from the game I think, and I was a armorsmith/weaponsmith. In principle it should stimulate the economy be giving items an expiration. In reality it only made it frustrating when lost 10% of your durability on very hard to get gear because you disconnected or made a simple mistake. Not to meantion it also made tanks non-existent (and they were needed in the game) as thier armor decay would outstrip any gains that could be made. And PvP, which was a lot of fun, started to become unpopular because players were having to spend all their money in order to do it.
Some of the same could be said about even, but there is insurance to offset some of the cost, and decent ships can be had for cheap. Because if you can't afford to fly battleships, you can still fly a frigate inexpensively and still contribute. Now if everything you own costs you money, you simply don't ever own but exactly what you need exactly when you needed. So you don't have a hanger full of prefitted firgates for pvp. So that means if you die, you are out of the fight much longer, and probably paying more for good to refit since you have to pay whatever if being offered at the time instead of just buying cheap when its available.
It could work, but I just don't see that emphasises the right things. You can cut the isk faucet in other ways. For instance, if agents would dynamicly adjust mission payout and concord adjusted rat payouts based on activity, so that higher global activity reduced payouts, incentivizing players to seek more risky options, which have their own faucet mechanisms (low/null mission running).
It would also be self regulating. As missions and rats reduce payouts, players are more likely to seek better payouts in lower security systems, which subjects them to higher risk in the form of ganks. This incentivizes pvp fits for pve conent, which slows the rate of consumption. As pirates feed on the pve'ers, the face increased capability from pve ships, and ship loses increase for both parties. The regulates to optimal profit potential, as these losses encourage pve'er to move back into higher security and pirates have less targets due to thier own disincentivizing behavior. The net result is an flucuating equilibrium that naturally adds inefficiency into the system, and lowers isk input, and increases isk output. The devs then have a clear method of tuning mission/rat income by the a simple hidden payout coefficient tacked onto the mission and rat rewards. And this coefficient can be optimized by the devs as a tuning fork for the economy much like the interest rate does in the real word.
Ok, thats a mouthful, so I'll stop my blathering. I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point! |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
123
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Posted - 2012.09.05 11:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Crew wages, that would be a good sink. I have some crews that have worked 6 years with no pay. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
974
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Posted - 2012.09.05 13:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
You may also wonder why we cannot place our ISK in an NPC bank where it earns a couple of percent of interest a year. Well, we do. But all that interest goes to ship crews, who when the ship is docked do the maintenance. The bank pools all the interest from all the wallets in New Eden and pays it out as needed as a service to us pod pilots so we do not need to be bothered by such issues. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Tekniq
Bionic Systems
6
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Posted - 2012.09.05 13:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I keep hearing about how this game needs ISK sinks.
Well perhaps it is time for one that would be based in some "reality", if it can be applied to a spaceship pixel game.
In our reality, every man-made structure created out of a metallic material, be it a tricycle right through to an aircraft carrier, need maintenance. Some may not made from materials that don't oxidize, but they still need some TLC, and that TLC costs money.
Typically, the more complicated the structure, the more expensive the TLC.
What would be the impact if Eve introduced some kind of maintenance cost on all hulls of all ships? I am not talking about damage done in combat, that is already taken care of.
I am talking about costs for general wear and tear. Imagine if fighter plane, subs, and aircraft carriers were never given overhauls. They would fall apart in no time. The vast majority never see combat, but huge quantities of time and materials are put into them on a very regular basis to keep them tip top.
And yes, even ships mothballed in dry dock need upkeep, albeit at a dramatically reduced rate.
So why not introduce that into Eve?
I think it would have some interesting effects.
1. The rich in the game, be the individuals with a massive collection of ships, or the mega-corps/alliances could not maintain vast armadas of ships waiting to replace losses, not without some general maintenance fee. That creates another logistical headache for the managers, but this would be one more step closer to emulating managing a real-life fleet.
2. We would be looking at a sink that hits everyone in the game. From the richest alliance to the smallest individual who simply mines in a T1 ship, all would be faced with the equivalent of a general tax. No one could complain that any particular group was targeted.
There are downsides, no doubt. Ship builders would not be thrilled, since there is little doubt this would make people think twice about buying that shiny just to watch it spin in station
What this maintenance costs would be, how it would be applied, I have no idea. That I leave up to CCP.
But I think it is one step closer to the completely immersive experience CCP seems to want for Eve to evolve to.
in space there is no oxygen... news?
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
51
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Let's make it so we have to feed and clothe our crews too.
Oh and that we need to buy fuel for the engines even without jumping.
Oh and lets make sure our capsuleers have to run on a treadmill and what have you a couple of times a month to reduce muscle atrophy from being in a pod.
Or we could carry on playing a game. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
291
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gogela wrote: Microsoft did it in Freelancer (radiation and other damage in clouds, damage from collisions at speed, certain areas of space filled with mines, etc...) and that was 2003! CCP could learn a thing or two from Freelancer...
I bet we can!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112647
masternerdguy wrote: Many servers (vanilla and modded) have either no pvp at all or, more commonly, pvp only after roleplay. This means that if you want to violence someone's boat you had to spend time roleplaying a pirate instead of just blapping them EVE style. This seems to be a carebear dream come true, since properly selecting your roleplay identity can keep you out of quite a bit of trouble. A common strategy is to spend 15 minutes roleplaying with the pirate while you're in a private convo with someone roleplaying a local police officer (who happens to fly a blapfit battleship) to come save you.
In this carebear friendly world, they must surely never complain right?
On the contrary, many servers put EVE carebear entitlement to shame. Ever think these forums are bad? Go to a freelancer roleplaying mod's official forum and you will see a new level of carebearism. Even though there is practically nothing lost from dying, and you can only be killed after proper roleplay ("engaging!", "2 mill or die" and "halt!" are not proper roleplay) people still manage to complain about there being too much risk!
masternerdguy wrote: People even complain about the PVE being too hard! But the most common complain of all is that they can't store any more credits on their characters because of the limitations of the 32bit integer. They are complaining about being so rich that the game can't even hold their money anymore.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1123
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think a better idea for an isk sink would be to charge amateur wannabe game designers 10M isk for every bad idea they post in GD instead of Features & Ideas Discussion where those kinds of posts can be more easily ignored by the general populace given their due attention by interested parties.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Ghazu
112
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:The biggest ISK sink in the game is PvP. It's also the healthiest for the game. Anything that puts additional cost to any other area in the game is lowering the amount of PvP because of the grinding in order to be able to PvP. Due to insurance, PvP is a faucet. not a sink.
Then why don't you scrubs have ship replacement programs? |
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ships don't break down because we have nano bot repair facilities that maintain our hulls.
Docking fees, on the other hand, could provide an interesting sink. Not hangar fees, mind you, just docking fees. When your wallet circles the drain, you get to dock at cheapo noob stations. If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
25
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Everything in EVE is made of cool tech stuff that do not need primitive things such as "maintenance." |
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
124
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ila Dace wrote:Ships don't break down because we have nano bot repair facilities that maintain our hulls.
Docking fees, on the other hand, could provide an interesting sink. Not hangar fees, mind you, just docking fees. When your wallet circles the drain, you get to dock at cheapo noob stations.
They should scale with use, like every other npc service but ccp are terrible so they haven't done it. Docking in jita 4-4 should cost a fortune, broker fees in 4-4 should cost a fortune, build slots near jita should cost a fortune. At the moment they only do this with office rentals. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
192
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Crew wages, that would be a good sink. I have some crews that have worked 6 years with no pay.
If anything makes sense, it would be this. Presumably, I have thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in my employ. They are not slaves, so they must receive some form of compensation. I'd assume they don't take such a hazardous job without making a nice wage.
I can understand how ships have built-in repair systems, nanostuffs, [insert sci fi explanation here], etc. But it makes no sense that the crew are unpaid volunteers with some kind of deathwish.
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Adalynne Rohks
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
234
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Crew wages, that would be a good sink. I have some crews that have worked 6 years with no pay.
That'd be fun. Especially when you blow up your ship, and get to collect all of your dead crew's iskies floating around in space |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1056
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Gogela wrote: Microsoft did it in Freelancer (radiation and other damage in clouds, damage from collisions at speed, certain areas of space filled with mines, etc...) and that was 2003! CCP could learn a thing or two from Freelancer...
I bet we can! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112647masternerdguy wrote: Many servers (vanilla and modded) have either no pvp at all or, more commonly, pvp only after roleplay. This means that if you want to violence someone's boat you had to spend time roleplaying a pirate instead of just blapping them EVE style. This seems to be a carebear dream come true, since properly selecting your roleplay identity can keep you out of quite a bit of trouble. A common strategy is to spend 15 minutes roleplaying with the pirate while you're in a private convo with someone roleplaying a local police officer (who happens to fly a blapfit battleship) to come save you.
In this carebear friendly world, they must surely never complain right?
On the contrary, many servers put EVE carebear entitlement to shame. Ever think these forums are bad? Go to a freelancer roleplaying mod's official forum and you will see a new level of carebearism. Even though there is practically nothing lost from dying, and you can only be killed after proper roleplay ("engaging!", "2 mill or die" and "halt!" are not proper roleplay) people still manage to complain about there being too much risk!
masternerdguy wrote: People even complain about the PVE being too hard! But the most common complain of all is that they can't store any more credits on their characters because of the limitations of the 32bit integer. They are complaining about being so rich that the game can't even hold their money anymore.
I haven't played Freelancer in a long time. I used to play TNG though and on those servers you lost your loot and I believe some of your mods when you died. If the mod wasn't dropped it was still on your ship when you re-spawned though... I think. I can't really remember it's been a while. The gameplay was fun though. Turn and burn style shooting. Aim mattered. The environments were fun and challenging. Space felt bigger and filled with danger, activity and stuff.
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
210
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
NPC docking fees Pay per Ship docking rights (you have 50 ships in that station, you gotta pay for the parking) Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
255
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tekniq wrote:
in space there is no oxygen... news?
The op's idea wasn't very smart, but this response is just down right stupid. |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 20:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hmmm not sure on this one. I have thought it funny myself there is no depreciation, as repackaging a ship and being able to sell it for same price as one 'fresh from the oven'... but am guessing tracking depreciation on every item in eve and charging people for it would be massively complex not to mention annoying lol. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
148
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Posted - 2012.09.05 21:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lower the NPC corp tax to 5% for the first month in game, then 10% for the second month, 11% for the third month and finally 12% for the rest of the time.
Edit: Also a mineral reprocessing tax, perhaps 0.1 ISK per unit of mineral created from reprocessing ore and loot. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 04:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Doddy wrote:Crew wages, that would be a good sink. I have some crews that have worked 6 years with no pay. If anything makes sense, it would be this. Presumably, I have thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in my employ. They are not slaves, so they must receive some form of compensation. I'd assume they don't take such a hazardous job without making a nice wage. I can understand how ships have built-in repair systems, nanostuffs, [insert sci fi explanation here], etc. But it makes no sense that the crew are unpaid volunteers with some kind of deathwish.
Mine dream of the chance to serve their mother.
...However brief that may be... I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point! |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1448
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 07:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:The biggest ISK sink in the game is PvP. It's also the healthiest for the game. Anything that puts additional cost to any other area in the game is lowering the amount of PvP because of the grinding in order to be able to PvP. Due to insurance, PvP is a faucet. not a sink. Then why don't you scrubs have ship replacement programs? SRP won't stop people from insuring their ships and yes, PvP (losing ships) is an isk faucet not a sink. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
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