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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Shepard Book They should get the cov op cloak and a buff to fitting, and either gank or tank
sin needs fitting help the rest are fine as they are. My current redeemer fit has 92kehp and does 950dps (not O/H). Baring in mind that these are not meant to be front line battleships but support ships for recon and bomber fleets I would say they are fine as they are.
Fix blackops by increasing jumprange and fuelbay. That is all.
Covert-ops cloaking device will do little - nothing in the way of balancing them.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
Originally by: Shepard Book They should get the cov op cloak and a buff to fitting, and either gank or tank
Covert-ops cloaking device will do little - nothing in the way of balancing them.
They said the same thing about the bomber and cov op cloak for years and it was never truley fixed till they added it with a couple other perks. I would rather them get it right the first time. I also said add gank or tank not both. This would stop them from being in the front line IMO. Thanks for the reply. I like you range and fuel bay ideas.
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Shepard Book They said the same thing about the bomber and cov op
I don't see how you can compare bombers to B'ops they are completly different :S
Main point being bombers don't have a jump drive...
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:34:00 -
[34]
A covert cloak would be too much for a BO. I say this as a Sin, Panther, Widow pilot. Not supported.
They are in dire need of some HP/resist adjustment, and if they get that then a covops cloak would be even more imbalanced.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:53:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Shepard Book on 16/05/2011 15:53:59
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
Originally by: Shepard Book They said the same thing about the bomber and cov op
I don't see how you can compare bombers to B'ops they are completly different :S
Main point being bombers don't have a jump drive...
They are both designed in a stealth type role but did not have cov op cloaks. BOs are made to work hand in hand with cov op cloak type ships.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.16 16:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Carcusian A covert cloak would be too much for a BO. I say this as a Sin, Panther, Widow pilot. Not supported.
They are in dire need of some HP/resist adjustment, and if they get that then a covops cloak would be even more imbalanced.
They are still one of the most expensive ships before capitals and least used. If we got the cloak and a buff to either tank or gank not both it would still not be over powered. They could still be countered and destroyed.
There are so few options for smaller fleets to accomplish anything in this game. I think this would be a move in the right direction for what they say they want to do with 0.0.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.16 16:40:00 -
[37]
Put a covert ops cloak and a Black Ops, and it will become the standard ship to fly by all pirates in low sec. Hell, even small scale PvP in null sec and high sec wars.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.16 16:54:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Put a covert ops cloak and a Black Ops, and it will become the standard ship to fly by all pirates in low sec. Hell, even small scale PvP in null sec and high sec wars.
They would still be foolish to go toe go toe a vs a well organized roam even less VS a hellcat, drake, or bs fleet IMO. We are still talking about a lot of isk here.
This could be a nice new niche if CCP truey wants to open up small scale warefare and objectives for such fleets in 0.0 I am thinking long term if they add new objectives in 0.0. LOW sec Id still take a fleet BS over a BO w/ cloak and a buff to either tank or gank. Costs much less and more effective IMO.
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Black Dranzer
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:25:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 16/05/2011 17:24:54 I'm supporting this only because I love cloaky ships.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shepard Book
Originally by: Marlona Sky Put a covert ops cloak and a Black Ops, and it will become the standard ship to fly by all pirates in low sec. Hell, even small scale PvP in null sec and high sec wars.
They would still be foolish to go toe go toe a vs a well organized roam even less VS a hellcat, drake, or bs fleet IMO. We are still talking about a lot of isk here.
This could be a nice new niche if CCP truey wants to open up small scale warefare and objectives for such fleets in 0.0 I am thinking long term if they add new objectives in 0.0. LOW sec Id still take a fleet BS over a BO w/ cloak and a buff to either tank or gank. Costs much less and more effective IMO.
LOL! Like they would go toe-to-toe with a Hellcat fleet. They would just stay cloaked and warp the **** off.
Put a covert cloak on it and everyone would train for one and fly nothing else. You say the cost is high now, but when the demand goes through the roof, all inventors will be making these and due to the price competition, they will drop in price. Sounds good but when it is nothing but Marco-Polo between black ops everywhere...
I hope you get the picture. If not, then there is not much else I can say to get you to stop seeing in tunnel vision.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Shepard Book on 16/05/2011 19:57:09
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Shepard Book
Originally by: Marlona Sky Put a covert ops cloak and a Black Ops, and it will become the standard ship to fly by all pirates in low sec. Hell, even small scale PvP in null sec and high sec wars.
They would still be foolish to go toe go toe a vs a well organized roam even less VS a hellcat, drake, or bs fleet IMO. We are still talking about a lot of isk here.
This could be a nice new niche if CCP truey wants to open up small scale warefare and objectives for such fleets in 0.0 I am thinking long term if they add new objectives in 0.0. LOW sec Id still take a fleet BS over a BO w/ cloak and a buff to either tank or gank. Costs much less and more effective IMO.
LOL! Like they would go toe-to-toe with a Hellcat fleet. They would just stay cloaked and warp the **** off.
Put a covert cloak on it and everyone would train for one and fly nothing else. You say the cost is high now, but when the demand goes through the roof, all inventors will be making these and due to the price competition, they will drop in price. Sounds good but when it is nothing but Marco-Polo between black ops everywhere...
I hope you get the picture. If not, then there is not much else I can say to get you to stop seeing in tunnel vision.
Not everyone trains recons now so you saying all would train that is a weak counter IMO. DPS of BOs is camparable if not less than a well trained bomber in most cases. Bombers cost a lot less and will be traveling with them. I still see BOs being more expensive than tier two BS by a long shot. BOs playing marco polo is far fetched when BS that cost much less can kill them. People already play marco polo BTW so this won change anything. Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they have tunnel vission. If it did I could say the same of you. I made the points I wanted to already.
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Chris Cochrane
The Knights Templar Strategic Operations Brigade
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:59:00 -
[42]
stealth bombers, covert ops, force recons, black ops should all be able to warp while cloaked, after all they all are paper thin =)
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shepard Book DPS of BOs is camparable if not less than a well trained bomber in most cases.
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.17 12:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Chris Cochrane stealth bombers, covert ops, force recons, black ops should all be able to warp while cloaked, after all they all are paper thin =)
B'ops arn't paper thin.....
Originally by: Shepard Book
DPS of BOs is camparable if not less than a well trained bomber in most cases.
You clearly have no idea what your talking about. Please stop posting.......
Bar the Sin B'ops are fine as they are. They simply need bigger jump range + fuel bay (and not by much either or they would become op)
Personally i would say 20% extra jump range and 300% more fuel bay.
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Noitserri
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:12:00 -
[45]
I've read quite a few of the threads on Black Ops getting Covert cloak.
I feel the covert ops cloak should be a given. It slightly raises it's survivability while not truly changing it's combat effectiveness. This helps it survive return trips when it for whatever reason would have to fly solo or without cyno. It doesn't create a solo machine because battleships even without a targetting penalty have god awful targetting/align times. In the case of the widow and ecm I would say make bonuses either uniform or matching bonuses (either all speed/agility related, mirror the recons, or for those who want the black ops to do a more supporting role grant them something like a RR bonus.
As for improving jump range/fuel I would have to agree to this as well. One of the major complaints I keep seeing is that for a specialized ship it seems to need a lot of help performing this special task. whether it be going out of ones way in fitting it or having alot of ships supporting it. If the black ops are support ships why are they being supported? I know logi ships do an entirely different form of support but they still work in pairs or groups as one would be easily primaried otherwise. Black ops ships already work in pairs as well one Black ops and one ship with the cyno, but with limited range and fuel it makes their job very difficult/inefficient. (A covert cloak would help with this as you would be able just jump in and cloak instead of using the cyno) besides a cloaky blockade runner would also be providing extra bombs/ammunitions etc so the more fuel they have to carry the shorter your trip will be right?
To sum it up grant the covert cloak, smooth out the bonuses, and improve fuel/jump range. Personally the bonuses are the only point I feel shaky on as EW/SD/etc is already done by the recons and would probably result in them being op especially in a fleet but then again RR etc would be welcomed in a fleet of otherwise squishy ships. What keeps them alive is not getting targeted generally a battleship loses in this aspect so thats a major set back alone. And those of you mad at cloaky ships escaping remember that that is their purpose and primary defense. However they can still be caught(whether it takes planning/luck or whatever it can still be done) and once they are caught they go pop rather easily.
one last thing create special scanning probes for detecting strictly cloaked objects just so people can't spend forever just cloaked up that should make everyone happy.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.11 02:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Put a covert ops cloak and a Black Ops, and it will become the standard ship to fly by all pirates in low sec. Hell, even small scale PvP in null sec and high sec wars.
Except that they won't. Granted people will fly them, but not in those kinds of numbers. The vast majority of players will go capital over and above Blops.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Icantspellwell
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Posted - 2011.06.11 03:43:00 -
[47]
Dumb that they can't. If they could it would be so much more useful. Also take into account that at this point black ops are the most underused ship in the game. Give their portal range a boost and they may actually become viable.
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