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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Griptus on 12/05/2011 02:52:00
Spreading ships out would fix the problem. Please extend the minimum jump distance from 2.5km to 250km, and make ships spawn at random locations within 250km but no less than 100km from stargates.
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Nyarlothotep
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:24:00 -
[2]
Ships should also not decloak for at least 1 minute. Additionally, we should be able stay cloaked for about 10 seconds after commands are given to the ship to allow the ship to get up some speed, align safely, and/or activate a cloaking device without ever being seen.
Any more ridiculous suggestions?
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:26:00 -
[3]
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
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Zan Shiro
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nyarlothotep Any more ridiculous suggestions?
instant teleport to certain places
built in warp stab abiliy on all ships
probe to launch through gate to see ahead because in an mmo of 1000's people can't find one friend to scout them
have bs' align and warp off like inty's since people can't grasp the concept of solo flight in fast ships to have a chance to burn camps...have all ships do it
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Darksteel Rifter
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:28:00 -
[5]
CCP needs to figure out a way to label pilots accurately as either a carebear or a pirate, and give carebears special protection in lowsec to allow them to take advantage of the otherwise inaccessible resources present there.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:06:00 -
[6]
Battlecruisers being stronger than industrials is unfair. Making any ship blow up if it shoots an industrial would fix the problem.
Interceptors being faster than Battleships is unfair. Making ships able to move as fast as their fastest opponent would fix the problem.
Market players making more money than mission runners is unfair. Making sales tax go to mission runners would solve the problem.
I could go on, but it's late...
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Ginger Nutter
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:54:00 -
[7]
gate camps are CCP's new end game PVP... deal with it.
CCP can't get big fleet fights to work like in their video's, so they are now making it as hard as possible to get big fleet fights. they want every gate camped to improve "interaction"
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Annasys
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:20:00 -
[8]
How about we just do away with gates in their entirety, and just allow players to instantly jump to any place in any system they like, regardless of distance.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ginger Nutter
gate camps are CCP's new end game PVP... deal with it.
CCP can't get big fleet fights to work like in their video's, so they are now making it as hard as possible to get big fleet fights. they want every gate camped to improve "interaction"
I am dealing with it- by staying in empire and completely avoiding interaction with giant gate camps. And I'm reminded every month of how boring the game is when my subscription is about to expire.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:03:00 -
[10]
I have a better idea. CCP should give us all a 'turn PvP off' button. Maybe we should be allowed to create a short-cut, maybe Alt Shift Q, or Crtl Q would be good.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Annasys
How about we just do away with gates in their entirety, and just allow players to instantly jump to any place in any system they like, regardless of distance.
According to dev blogs, stargates function as crowd control devices. Making us move our ships to any arbitrary location in a system before changing sessions forces us into a virtual waiting line, which helps reduces server load.
According to lore, it's simply not possible for sub-capital ships to jump. I certainly wouldn't want everyone jumping around willy-nilly because it would eliminate basic travel and ruin all the gameplay mechanics that depend on basic travel, not to mention causing tons lag.
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Annasys
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Griptus
Originally by: Annasys
How about we just do away with gates in their entirety, and just allow players to instantly jump to any place in any system they like, regardless of distance.
According to dev blogs, stargates function as crowd control devices. Making us move our ships to any arbitrary location in a system before changing sessions forces us into a virtual waiting line, which helps reduces server load.
According to lore, it's simply not possible for sub-capital ships to jump. I certainly wouldn't want everyone jumping around willy-nilly because it would eliminate basic travel and ruin all the gameplay mechanics that depend on basic travel, not to mention causing tons lag.
Perhaps you misconstrued my sarcasm for the OP's hilariously stupid idea as my actual desires. Sorry for any miscommunications.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:15:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Griptus on 12/05/2011 17:22:46
Originally by: Annasys
Perhaps you misconstrued my sarcasm for the OP's hilariously stupid idea as my actual desires. Sorry for any miscommunications.
Calling it stupid is stupid, unless you got something other than sarcasm to back it up.
Besides, you look familiar. I've probably popped your ship a few times.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Griptus
Originally by: Annasys
Perhaps you misconstrued my sarcasm for the OP's hilariously stupid idea as my actual desires. Sorry for any miscommunications.
Calling it stupid is stupid, unless you got something other than sarcasm to back it up.
I would say that it is a 'stupid topic' because of a couple key points:
- The use of the word 'unfair' in a game which allows for complete freedom. Unless a player is glitching a mechanic or using something that you can't possible, EVER use, unfair doesn't equate. Unbalanced? Maybe.
- Gate camps are organized ambushes on choke points. Common in military tactics, police procedures, and yes, criminals have been using it for awhile too. In EvE, they are used for all of the above.
- Gate camps are the ONLY way to honestly prevent a player from warping into a system and killing all of your mining corp members. Kill them before they can even get in system, because afterwards your chances of finding them are slim.
- Every gate camp can be predicted, broken or bypassed. The ships you use, the scouts you hire, the force you have ready to shoot on landing. The biggest weakness of a gate camp is that any SMART player expects it, because they are (now get this): camps ... on ... gates.
You may not have a reason to USE gate camping yourself, but others do. You may not have the skills to equip the right ships to fly by, but you can. You may not have the friends to help you bust a camp or scout ahead, but you have every possibility to. And you may have to fly to a certain place, but you don't have to use that particular gate.
When all the options are presented to every gamer equally, and they refuse to accept those options because they don't like the limited amount of work involved to perform them, then you can bet the idea will be stupid.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:54:00 -
[15]
I too feel that pvp should never happen.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Danika Princip I too feel that pvp should never happen.
I thought there was a way to avoid pvp, though?
Like, not play EvE ...
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Annasys
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Griptus Edited by: Griptus on 12/05/2011 17:22:46
Originally by: Annasys
Perhaps you misconstrued my sarcasm for the OP's hilariously stupid idea as my actual desires. Sorry for any miscommunications.
Calling it stupid is stupid, unless you got something other than sarcasm to back it up.
Besides, you look familiar. I've probably popped your ship a few times.
Yes my calling a stupid idea is stupid. Nice logic there. Also, as has been pointed out, complaining about gatecamps is stupid. They are part of the game. They are what CCP is trying to get more of in order to push their "interaction" agenda.
Also, you've never popped me. I only die to *elite pvp* of which you are not. I am a big fan of knowing what you are talking about prior to making asinine suggestions or comments. |
Sakaras Lane
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:09:00 -
[18]
all around flawed idea gate provide a need choke point for assault ad defense, under your logic we should just do away with gates and just pick a system from the star map and just randomly jump into it. Way to carebear no way to force the fight, if anything should be done combat agression should last 5 min before jumping and there should be a 60 second delay before you can jump again.
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ajc
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:11:00 -
[19]
if ya dont want pvp gate camps an so on hello kitty is that way ------> stop complaining an get on with it
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Bob Moufette
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:35:00 -
[20]
We could just have the ability to type the following while at the gate:DNCORNHOLIO...
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Youli Kepain
Scapegoats
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:47:00 -
[21]
If you don't want to partake in PVP turn your PVP-Flag off.
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Joni Festus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:58:00 -
[22]
LOL this is stupid. Try not failing at the game.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:05:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Griptus on 12/05/2011 22:05:54
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
- The use of the word 'unfair' in a game which allows for complete freedom.
As long as gate camping keep 90% of the player base from leaving empire, Eve does NOT allow for complete freedom.
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
- Gate camps are organized ambushes on choke points.
Every location in a system is a "choke point". But you choose to always organize your ambushes on stargates because that's were you have the greatest advantage. Thank you for proving my case.
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
- Every gate camp can be predicted, broken or bypassed.
There is no way to predicted a gate camp, so it's not about smarts. Otherwise you wouldn't need scouts.
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
- Gate camps are the ONLY way to honestly prevent a player from warping into a system and killing all of your mining corp members.
Not if it's possible to "predict, break and bypass" your gate camps. You also have to guard against fleets coming in through wormholes and capital ship or black ops jumps. You simply can't cover all the bases. You're better off just camping your miners. If you can't do that, then practice what you preach and go get more friends and more ships.
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Evannar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:56:00 -
[24]
You should really get out to low/nullsec more often. It really isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Griptus
As long as gate camping keep 90% of the player base from leaving empire, Eve does NOT allow for complete freedom.
What keeps 90% of the playerbase from leaving empire, is the FEAR of being gate camped. When the naive new playerbase finally does decide to leave and go exploring, many of them regretfully head to the most populated and busy intersections: i.e. most often camped.
Spent two hours in losec this week, just flying and scanning for some friends. Ran into one camp. Probably a dozen systems. Only one gate was camped. And I knew it would be.
Originally by: Griptus
Every location in a system is a "choke point". We choose to organize our ambushes on stargates because that's were we have the greatest advantage- i.e unfair. Thank you for proving my case.
Here, you make a valid point: yes, nearly every location in a system can be a 'choke point'. But what keeps them from being choke points is the lack of a requirement to go there. Gates are more in-line with what makes a choke-point, because to enter and leave system MOST have to go through a gate now and again.
Also, having an advantage doesn't mean 'unfair'. It means having the advantage. Strategy, tactics. They work. My point, if you missed it, was not that gate camps don't use an advantage, just that by using it it doesn't unfairly effect a player who knows how to play. A new player on the other hand?
I definitely can see how they might see it as unfair. Until they are relieved of their ignorance, it's quite common to feel like there is nothing you can do. It's not CCP's, or the gate campers, or the fly-hard pvpers, fault for that ignorance. It's that players.
Stupidity, on the other hand, is no longer being ignorant but still not changing your ways.
Originally by: Griptus
There is no way to predicted a gate camp, so it's not about smarts. Otherwise you wouldn't need scouts.
Actually, try your map. F10. System Statistics. Ships destroyed in last hour. Pods killed. You might have different results, but I would put money on being able to identify a gate camp before I go through a system.
Also, knowing the area your traveling helps. Talking to people outside of NPC corps who live in the area. Funny what a little prior intel can get you.
Originally by: Griptus
Not if it's possible to "predict, break and bypass" your gate camps. You also have to guard against fleets coming in through wormholes and capital ship or black ops jumps. You simply can't cover all the bases. You're better off just camping your miners. If you can't do that, then practice what you preach and go get more friends and more ships.
That is the issue with guarding space, and again, my argument for why gate camps aren't unfair. Yes, it's the only true means to protect your space. But it's not omnipotent. It won't stop everything. Enemy fleets. Recon ships. Hell, any ship that knows how to fly correctly. You could camp your miners, but there's a good chance you can stop a sneaky recon ship from coming in and dropping a cyno, bringing his capital-flying buddies.
If you won't use the tools presented to you (and yes, I the player have camped and been camped for way too many hours - and I hate camping gates with a passion), that's not CCP's or the game's fault.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:57:00 -
[26]
I'm suspecting a troll based on this post, but in case you're actually serious, I'll indulge.
Originally by: Griptus As long as gate camping keep 90% of the player base from leaving empire, Eve does NOT allow for complete freedom.
Nothing keeps any of the player base from leaving Empire except their own decision making. All you have to do to leave Empire is decide that you want to and find a way to get out there. Thousands of people have done it before, even with these dreaded gate camps.
Originally by: Griptus Every location in a system is a "choke point". We choose to organize our ambushes on stargates because that's were we have the greatest advantage- i.e unfair. Thank you for proving my case.
I think you misunderstand the term "choke point" - having a read of that might enlighten you.
Originally by: Griptus There is no way to predicted a gate camp, so it's not about smarts. Otherwise you wouldn't need scouts.
Scouts (ie ships that can, in some way, dodge gate camps) are a way to predict (or really, discover) gate camps. You should always at least expect a gate camp, and therefore prepare for one.
Originally by: Griptus
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
- Gate camps are the ONLY way to honestly prevent a player from warping into a system and killing all of your mining corp members.
Not if it's possible to "predict, break and bypass" your gate camps. You also have to guard against fleets coming in through wormholes and capital ship or black ops jumps. You simply can't cover all the bases. You're better off just camping your miners. If you can't do that, then practice what you preach and go get more friends and more ships.
Sure, there are other ways to get into a system, but the most commonly used is gates, hence they are the most commonly covered.
Being able to jump through a gate from anywhere within 250km and end up anywhere up to 250km away on the other side would mean intercepting a traveling ship would be near on impossible to do, even a giant slowboating freighter. Therefore, this is a terrible idea.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Evannar
You should really get out to low/nullsec more often. It really isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
I never said anything that made low or null sec out to be bad.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:27:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Imigo Montoya on 13/05/2011 00:28:17
Originally by: Griptus
Originally by: Evannar
You should really get out to low/nullsec more often. It really isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
I never said anything that made low or null sec out to be bad.
Um, yeah, you kinda did:
Originally by: Griptus "Gate camping is unfair - Please make it stop" "Just spreading ships out would fix the problem" "I am dealing with it- by staying in empire and completely avoiding interaction with giant gate camps. And I'm reminded every month of how boring the game is when my subscription is about to expire." "As long as gate camping keep 90% of the player base from leaving empire, Eve does NOT allow for complete freedom."
Calling gate camps (something that happens more in low and null sec than in highsec) "unfair" and a "problem", combined with the rest of what I've quoted pretty much equates to making out that low or null sec need to be "fixed" (ie, are bad).
EDIT: My troll meter is starting to make some serious noises here, so be careful or you'll just be ignored.
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Griptus
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:55:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Griptus on 13/05/2011 00:56:05
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
What keeps [all other locations in a system] from being choke points is the lack of a requirement to go there. Gates are more in-line with what makes a choke-point, because to enter and leave system MOST have to go through a gate now and again.
Stations are for manufacturing, research, and trade. Asteroid belts are for mining. Gates are for travel. Each is required depending on your goal so they're all choke points. The only difference is whether or not it's an exploit. Gate camping is an exploit because you aren't facing your opponents on an equal footing. Everyone has to use stargates whether or not they're prepared for pvp.
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Annasys
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Griptus Edited by: Griptus on 13/05/2011 00:56:05
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
What keeps [all other locations in a system] from being choke points is the lack of a requirement to go there. Gates are more in-line with what makes a choke-point, because to enter and leave system MOST have to go through a gate now and again.
Stations are for manufacturing, research, and trade. Asteroid belts are for mining. Gates are for travel. Each is required depending on your goal so they're all choke points. The only difference is whether or not it's an exploit. Gate camping is an exploit because you aren't facing your opponents on an equal footing. Everyone has to use stargates whether or not they're prepared for pvp.
You still do not understand what a chokepoint actually is. A chokepoint is a place that people have to go through in order to proceed. At some point, SOMEONE has to go through that gate. Reinforcing chokepoints is common sense military practice. There is no reason for that to not spill over into a game that is based on conflict.
Stations, asteroid belts, and other celestial objects are not choke points in that they are not required to go to in order to continue. Most systems have multiple asteroid belts. Not scouting one before going mining is a ludicrous proposition. While many 0.0 systems only have a single outpost, these are generally only considered a choke point in market hubs. Out of the way stations see little to no traffic.
Again, please read my signature. You should really have a clue as to what you are talking about before making asinine assumptions about nullsec. I am a big fan of knowing what you are talking about prior to making asinine suggestions or comments. |
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