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Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:54:00 -
[1]
I'm sure this has come up before but I am new and have never seen it.
I do not have a problem with the lengths of training time or any thing like that.
But why is the step between barges and exhumers so small?
I am already mining in a Retriever and working my way slowly toward a hulk. As I said I am new, just under 2 mil SP on my main. What has me confused is, it takes over a month of training to get from a Retriever into a Covetor, but then only a few days after that to get into a hulk. why even waste money on a Covetor?
The big skills needed for a Covetor are astrogeology 5 and mining barge 5. Both are about 15 days training for me. But then to fly a hulk all I need is Exhumers 3 which only takes a few days. I am not proposing adding requirements to the hulk but it seems ridiculous to wait over a month to get into the highest mining barge then only a few days for the T2 Exhumer. why not drop the requirements for the Covetor to Astrogeology 5 and Mining barge 4 or vise versa? this would at least make the Covetor worth using while you are waiting for skills to fly a hulk.
This is the only ship type I have seen in this game that is like this. Sure for most other ship types you just need that ship class trained to 5 to train the skills for the T2 versions. but none of them require class skills be trained to 5 to fly the T1 versions, training to 5 just adds bonuses but is not required for the T1 ships. All the other ships I have looked at, the biggest jump in skill training time is to go from T1 in the class up to the T2 versions. For example any high end T1 battleship requires the battleship skill for that race be trained to 3 or 4, pirate faction require multiple races skills trained to 3 or 4 then the T2 battleships require Battleship 5 plus the T2 skill making it a big training jump.
Why are mining barges the only ship class not set up like this? Is it residual from before Hulks were introduced? Covetor was the ultimate mining ship requiring the max skill set. But then the Hulk was added and Covetor is no longer the top tier mining ship. Changing the requirements for a Covetor from Mining barge 5 to Mining Barge 4 would not only put it on par with the other high end T1 ships but also make a little bit bigger difference in yield from Base Covetor to a Maxed out Hulk. Covetor would still benifit from the added bonus of training mining barge to 5 but it should not be a requirement.
If I am missing something here, please tell me. But from where I sit it seems there is no reason for me to ever buy a Covetor, I will just jump straight into a Hulk. Covetor is just a waste of money. I know they are a lot cheaper than a Hulk, around 20 mil as apposed to 175 mil for a hulk, last time I checked. But even for a noob like myself a Hulk is not unreasonably expensive. Although they were around 140 mil when I first started. If anyone is too impatient to save up for one, selling a plex for 350 mil is a good option to get some start-up cash.
Seriously, What am I missing here?
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:38:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Alexia page
why even waste money on a Covetor?
You don't. Unless you're in null, lowsec or wormholes and don't want to risk the money, especially with today's ridiculous hulk prices.
Years ago, Hulk's didn't exist, and the covetor was the best mining ship. Things change, that's it really. Mining is such a crappy profession these days, my guess is CCP decided to keep the skill requirements minimal for the jump to make it easier on people who choose to mine anyway.
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Skorpynekomimi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:55:00 -
[3]
Compared to a Hulk, a Covetor is cheap. It can be insured fully. This makes it very easily replaceable, practically disposable.
Fit it with T1 kit and mine in low/null/WH with an implant-less clone. Leave your hulk and expensive implants in highsec.
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Ruiner Drudge
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:01:00 -
[4]
When I finally finished training for a Hulk, I didn't have enough money so I ended up getting a Coveter. It's a no brainer which is better, but the Coveter is still a very, very nice step up from the Retriever.
They could always change the Hulk to require Exhumers level 5, lol.
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Alex Kurvora
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Posted - 2011.05.15 09:35:00 -
[5]
Buy the Covetor. Enjoy the extra yield till you buy a Hulk then sell the Covetor. No waste of money necessary as long as the market cooperates of course. The Covetor is a huge step over the Ret. |
Skorpynekomimi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.15 16:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alex Kurvora
Buy the Covetor. Enjoy the extra yield till you buy a Hulk then sell the Covetor. No waste of money necessary as long as the market cooperates of course. The Covetor is a huge step over the Ret.
I advise against selling it; the Covetor is cheap, insurable, and handy to keep around. Plus, if you get ganked and lose the hulk, you can always go back to it.
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Telchin Dai
Amarr
TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:55:00 -
[7]
I skipped the covetor and stayed in my retriever til I got iskies for the hulk, I came back to eve recently, and was low on isk, and without a hulk, so I bought a Covetor to tide me over until I could buy a new hulk, I got a fully fitted Covetor for 20m, compared to 220m for a fitted hulk. But aside from the price difference, and the insurance, I wouldnt bother going to Covetor if you are busy training for the hulk anyway
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 04:31:00 -
[8]
Many have asked that question and you are right to; you probably don't need the covetor. Still, it's a cheap intermediate barge for those who can't afford the hulk and that can be used by inventors to create a hulk bp.
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Leekana
Gallente
Digital Messiahs
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Posted - 2011.05.16 06:25:00 -
[9]
Shouldn't this be in skills discussion?
The BIG Lottery |
Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:02:00 -
[10]
Yes, I understand what everyone is saying, but really what I want to know is. Does anyone agree that maybe the requirements of the covetor could use a change to be more balanced.
I know there are many reasons why it is the way it is but the basics I see behind it in the training time really seem unbalanced.
Currently it takes approximately 1 week > Procurer > 1.5 weeks Retreiver > 4.5 weeks Covetor > less than a day for a hulk. Is this not unbalanced?
by changing either astrogeology OR Mining Barge from 5 to 4 you can knock off 2 weeks training from the Covetor and leave it the same for the hulk. Considering both astrogeology from 4 > 5 and mining barge from 4 > 5 are about the same training time i.e. 15 days with balanced attributes.
It would not be fair to make the requirements for a hulk any higher, but I really think there should be a wider training gap between covetor and hulk than less than a day.
I am not asking what to do to make the current system work. I do as most others do just go straight from retriever to a hulk.
What I am asking is, Does anyone else agree that reducing the requirements for the covetor in order to increase the training gap between covetor and hulk would make the training more balanced?
This would also allow new players to get into a covetor two weeks sooner and not have to wait a whole month to scale up from a retriever. There is no other ship class in the game that takes a month of training to go from a mid range T1 hull up to the top T1 hull of the same faction. But there are many if not all that require extensive training to go from the best T1 hull up to the T2 version.
Not to say that other ship classes do not benefit from having the matching skill trained to 5, of course they do. but all that is needed to fly most top T1 hulls is the skill trained to 3, training to 5 is just a boost and needed to train the skills for the T2 ships. The covetor is the only ship in the game that does not follow this pattern, all the other ship hulls in the game that have T1 and T2 versions only require training to level 3 not 5 before you can fly them.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:37:00 -
[11]
The imbalance is in the cost, not in the training. You're looking at it the wrong way.
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Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:25:00 -
[12]
missed my point I guess.
I get the price difference, I think it is as it should be comparing a T1 hull to the T2 version price wise.
But why is the Covetor the only T1 hull in the game that requires the hull piloting skill trained to level 5?
All other high end T1 ships I have looked at, you can fly with piloting skill trained to 3. you only need to train to 5 to unlock the T2 skill. Why shouldn't the Covetor follow the same pattern as every other T1 ship in the game? Leaving astrogeology at 5 will still make it a big training jump from a Retriever.
Take minmatar battleships for example. Typhoon>battleship 1, Tempest>battleship 2, Maelstrom>battleship 3. All other ship classes work like this.
Am I really the only person that see's this. Or is it just that nobody cares?
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Leekana
Gallente
Digital Messiahs
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alexia page
Am I really the only person that see's this. Or is it just that nobody cares?
Mining is the red headed step child of EVE online. Or gets about as much attention as one at least  . Considering how many people mine, you would think CCP would spend more time trying to improve it.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.05.17 13:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alexia page
missed my point I guess.
I get the price difference, I think it is as it should be comparing a T1 hull to the T2 version price wise.
But why is the Covetor the only T1 hull in the game that requires the hull piloting skill trained to level 5?
All other high end T1 ships I have looked at, you can fly with piloting skill trained to 3. you only need to train to 5 to unlock the T2 skill. Why shouldn't the Covetor follow the same pattern as every other T1 ship in the game? Leaving astrogeology at 5 will still make it a big training jump from a Retriever.
Take minmatar battleships for example. Typhoon>battleship 1, Tempest>battleship 2, Maelstrom>battleship 3. All other ship classes work like this.
Am I really the only person that see's this. Or is it just that nobody cares?
Unlike retrievers, covetors are really really hard to fly, therefore you need the extra training to keep you from strip mining your own reactor and blowing yourself up. Once you get that skill down it's not a huge leap to being able to fly a hult, except in the wallet.
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