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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.16 23:09:00 -
[1]
I recently acquired a -3.2 sec status and instead of doing hard labor to bring it up i said screw it and moved out to nullsec. Currently i am flying a manticore and thats working pretty well accept that when i was in a fleet they demanded i stay out of the fight. Now i am wandering what would be the best caldari null sec ship that i could get cheap? Or should i just stick with what i have? Also should i cross train into minmatar? Im a few days away from a cane.
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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:51:00 -
[2]
I guess if it helps im looking for something that will do massive amounts of dps! Like i am the best dps person in the fleet. No one is better
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Zeus Askiras I recently acquired a -3.2 sec status and instead of doing hard labor to bring it up i said screw it and moved out to nullsec. Currently i am flying a manticore and thats working pretty well accept that when i was in a fleet they demanded i stay out of the fight. Now i am wandering what would be the best caldari null sec ship that i could get cheap? Or should i just stick with what i have? Also should i cross train into minmatar? Im a few days away from a cane.
Staying out of real fights in a SB is generally good advice because so much stuff (BC, HAC, Dram, drones, etc) out there can **** you, no probs.
And the Caldari DPS lineup is kinda ****ed up, you have the Drake... and the Tengu. Yeah, crosstrain into Minmatar, getting medium stuff up takes about six weeks and gives you a nice mix to play with.
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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:41:00 -
[4]
Alright what do you suggest from min? Cane or should i look at going for a hac?
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Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Zeus Askiras Alright what do you suggest from min? Cane or should i look at going for a hac?
Train for the onyx and/or basilisk. FCs and basibros will suck yo ****.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:17:00 -
[6]
Stick with the drake, drake blob handles all. It's cheap, got buffer, does dps. They won't hit you while in blob, if they do, it's their loss.
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Lost Greybeard
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Target Painter
And the Caldari DPS lineup is kinda ****ed up, you have the Drake... and the Tengu. Yeah, crosstrain into Minmatar, getting medium stuff up takes about six weeks and gives you a nice mix to play with.
No love for Rokhing out?
Also, you could train into the Caldari recons and do basically none of the damage of an SB while being 10000000 times as annoying to your opponents, and still be all stealthy. Not "cheap" in the capital cost sense, but they get blown up far less frequently than most t2s so the long-term ROI is good.
Caldari logi ship is probably useful as well and has the advantage of the entire fleet defending you from certain doom. Probably gonna cost more over time than the Recon but you'll get invited to more fleets.
I don't even know the name of the Caldari HACs offhand, so likely there's a reason for that.
Overall, drake is probably your best bet for "cheap", both because it literally doesn't cost much after insurance, and because they're lame enough as dps that you're unlikely to get primaried. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Indeterminacy
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:39:00 -
[8]
You can do caldari ships in 0.0 easily but few of the useful ships are cheap (drake, inties, and bombers the exception of course. Flycatcher is fairly cheap and not 100% terrible but there are better dictors (sabre, heretic).
After that, for black ops the falcon is loved by fcs. And rooks are great for sniper/nano/shield gangs. Cerberus is as well. Nothing can beat it's combination of range + tank.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:47:00 -
[9]
The interesting part of your post is "They demanded I stay out of the fight".
I have to assume you have a bomb launcher mounted? Try flying something that won't actually kill your own fleetmates
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard No love for Rokhing out?
The only shield BS fleets to be consistently run are all about the alpha. If you're a BS and not hitting for 9K+ a volley, you are doing the fleet a disservice. So for shield BS, it's pretty much Tempest, Maelstrom and Machariel.
If you're talking close range fits, the Tempest is again better because it can mount two heavy neuts has comparable damage projection to a blaster Rokh and is faster, while any Amarr BS has better damage projection, with the Abaddon having far more DPS and tank to boot.
Fix hybrids.
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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:44:00 -
[11]
First of all i am looking for something that will pump out massive dps. Right now i am leaning towards the cane. Ive tried the drake and it just doesnt put in the constant dps you need to get killmails. Also I do have a bomb launcher fitted but i am not a complete ****** and know not to fire at my own fleet.
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:46:00 -
[12]
Caldari are more of a support role in PvP. To that end, they excel at e-war. I don't think FCs would turn down blackbirds, but it's a very suicidal role. You will be the enemy's #1 target.
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Khory Thunderstar
The Single Scam
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darryl Ward Caldari are more of a support role in PvP. To that end, they excel at e-war. I don't think FCs would turn down blackbirds, but it's a very suicidal role. You will be the enemy's #1 target.
... If they can lock you.
You dont play ECM ships to have fun, you play them to avoid others having fun!
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Ste Weiss
modro Strategic Operations Brigade
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:06:00 -
[14]
Are you caldari?
Do you want massive buffer tank?
Do you want to annoy the **** out of reds?
Get a drake today.
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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:21:00 -
[15]
I DONT WANT A BUFFER TANK! I dont want a recon ship. I could care less about being invited to fleets. I want DPS!!!!
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Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zeus Askiras I DONT WANT A BUFFER TANK! I dont want a recon ship. I could care less about being invited to fleets. I want DPS!!!!
Sweet. Go hop in a big, bad ship that pumps out 1000+ DPS. You'll enjoy it...
...for all 3 minutes you're alive.
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Not-Apsalar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Not-Apsalar on 17/05/2011 20:55:37 Edited by: Not-Apsalar on 17/05/2011 20:54:36 Nano HAM Drake. Probably going to be the best DPS you'll get out of a frontline fighting Caldari ship.
Or, start from scratch and get a Cane before moving up to a Minnie HAC
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Zeus Askiras
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:37:00 -
[18]
So I should go for a mini hac over the cane?
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Dark Voynix
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 18/05/2011 06:40:05 Edited by: Dark Voynix on 18/05/2011 06:39:03 you are caldari? want to crosstrain? then go amarr not minnie.
Caldari + Amarr = sancha = nighmare Caldari + Minnie = nothing
But even not considering the pirate faction factor consider some things:
* Lasers are nice in 0.0 ( less "ammo cargo space" problems) * harbinger is as good as hurricane ( maybe a just bit less vearsatile ) * Zealot is a good hac and even sacri could be a good choise ( expecially if you have alseady high missile skills) * everybody loves gaurdians * all 3 amarr bs's are nice.
Its not that minnie are not good ( i love it myself), its just that imho amarr fits better a caldari pilot skills in 0.0 space.
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David Carel
Caldari Random Selection.
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:55:00 -
[20]
Tengu. 100MN AB Tengu. Costs over 2b but ****s ass.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.18 07:03:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 18/05/2011 07:05:28
Originally by: David Carel Tengu. 100MN AB Tengu. Costs over 2b but ****s ass.
Dude asked for something cheap and you suggest a 2B isk Tengu lol
Also, if you don't want to buffer tank, then you don't want a Cane, since the two most popular fits (and the highest DPS ones) are buffer tanks.
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rumncock
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Posted - 2011.05.18 07:45:00 -
[22]
Op is an silly troll or beyond words (at least allowed words on the forums), in either case I'm not sure why you all humour him.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: rumn**** Op is an silly troll or beyond words (at least allowed words on the forums), in either case I'm not sure why you all humour him.
Yeah, that'll teach him to be new at spaceships and come to the forum seeking advice.
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Pascal Almaric
The Solipsist Nation
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Posted - 2011.05.18 16:28:00 -
[24]
You have to consider what other people are doing and how your ship will work in their gang. E.g. a torp Raven is Caldari and not too pricey, it does far more DPS than the ships discussed so far, but good luck finding a place for one in a 0.0 gang.
Some ships you would get to use a lot...
Hurricane - Good DPS point blank, neut potential is very handy, good shield and armour fits, can be nanoed up to fly like a cruiser, easy to fit. Fun ship.
Harbinger - Good DPS, ok shield and good armour fits. DPS is better than it looks because 20km Scorch optimal lets you hit full DPS ASAP. Good in bigger gangs, where the target is dead by the time a 'cane is in range of it.
HML/HAM Drake - Medium/good DPS, useful range. Drakes are alive to fire at the end of a fight, so they get extra damage for their DPS. Shield only, can't take it along on armour gangs.
HACs - are primarily flown for range and speed/agility, DPS is solid but not massive.
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Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.18 18:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zeus Askiras First of all i am looking for something that will pump out massive dps. Right now i am leaning towards the cane. Ive tried the drake and it just doesnt put in the constant dps you need to get killmails. Also I do have a bomb launcher fitted but i am not a complete ****** and know not to fire at my own fleet.
... Originally by: Zeus Askiras I DONT WANT A BUFFER TANK! I dont want a recon ship. I could care less about being invited to fleets. I want DPS!!!!
Well mate, let me assure you that what you ask and how you ask for proves that you are miss-informed about the ways some things work...don't know if you come up with those ideas yourself - many ppl get carried away from the "sandbox" concept, the freedom in fittings etc, and even more young ppl get "inspired" by know-all players that have a tad more lame kills on their killboard and brag about their uber tactics.
"Constant DPS" = thats all about missiles, unless you are talking inapropriate missiles for the job = shooting torps or HAMs vs. AB frigs or kiting opponents, or shooting HMLs vs. really fast frigs that in both cases out-run your missiles or the explosion velocity of you missiles.
In general, Missiles and to a lesser extend drones are "safe" ways to apply constant DPS under most circumstances.
"I don't want buffer"...lol...I don't think there is a single ship in this game that doesn't need buffer, especially if you are actively involved in fights...maybe that's why ppl don't like SBs, cause those get 1-2 shot by most cruisers / BCs out there...
Being invited to fleets is not about ur DPS...trust me.
Now, sticking to caldari and reliable DPS...off course it's a talk revolving around missile boats...with shield buffers...
You say you fly SBs...I get it that you don't have T2 launcers and you cannot shoot Javelin torps etc... Had encounters with "sniping" javelin-spawing-SBs win my nano BCs and those hurt A LOT...surprisingly so, as I do think myself that SBs in general are only good for bombing my drones in small numbers...in such SBs, speed and range is your friend...medium slots are not to be troubled with tank / resists / etc...you take for granted that something else is tackling and you are the noob kiting away, spiting torps from 70km and target painting / dampening on unlucky guy.
Drake: drake is a god for constant DPS, range, buffer...this ship is just easy mode for PVP encounters, and beats the Cane in versatility - especially when fighting larger stuff you should stay away from...thus we are (again) talking about HML drake...trust me, the HAM drake and the paper DPS EFT gives you get u screwed up in so many other areas that it rarely worth the switch. Don't go insane with buffer tanking it tho...ppl think the drake should be uber tanked...no. It works that way if you have people doing the dirty work for you, but it works better if you add tackle.
Cerberus: this ship can be flown in some good configurations. I would take it over the Drake only if you want to stay at range and have others do the dirty work for you...the dmg projection is great, despite what ppl say about missiles.
All the above are choices you can afford to have in small gang pvp. In large gang pvp, most of the times there is a "master plan" that calls for the fleets configuration: "Sniping BSs" with logis, "close range BSs with RR", "sniping HACs/BCs", "drake fleets" etc... Well, if you want to get invited in those fleets, you either fly the DPS ship requested, or you are support to the DPS fleets, aka, Recon/Inty/Dictor/Logi etc...
As a rule of thumb - again - forget about crazy-ass DPS ships, torp ravens, overheating HAM-drakes etc unless you are ganking people on stations and gates...
Worst case scenario: save my advice for later, go out and do your thing, get tired of you loses, then come back to it...most of us learn the hard way, and it's good, cause its with internet frikkin spaceships (this time)...
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CrashHazard
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Posted - 2011.05.18 20:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: CrashHazard on 18/05/2011 20:18:43 If you want to go big dps and stay caldari go HAMs and use range rigs. I can hit at 28km with a nice drake fit for over 500dps. Not as fun as minnie but not laugh worthy either. Fitting an mwd is required for fit. Can always go bigger and use a tengu. If you want blasters go Moa and ferox. Something different but mini is best.
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:15:00 -
[27]
If you're caldari and just looking for pure, unadulterated dps, go torp raven, they can throw out a quite frankly obscene amount of damage to other BS hulls.
Good luck catching stuff/getting in range.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:16:00 -
[28]
Sorry, Op, not wanting to hijack your thread, but I have struggled with the same questions. I am heavily trained on missiles and wanting to head to 0.0 and get into some PVP, but have gotten a lot of the "Drake hating" on post as well.
Ok, I will accept that even with getting my skills close to maxed out on this ship and Caldari BS's, there is a place for them, but they tend to get shunned.
Sooooo, as a crosstrain, it seems a Hurricane or Harbenger are likely canidates, which I am looking into.
However, why the solid dislike for missile boats? I dont get it. The game is pretty balanced for the most part, and as I have learned the hard way, it really boils down more to having the skills and applying them in the right way. Correct?
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 19/05/2011 14:25:29
Originally by: Delucian However, why the solid dislike for missile boats? I dont get it. The game is pretty balanced for the most part, and as I have learned the hard way, it really boils down more to having the skills and applying them in the right way. Correct?
The thing it boils down to is fitting in with the fleet you are flying in. A moderately skilled pilot in a proper ship is much more useful than a maxed out pilot in a faction-pimped ship which can not work with the fleet at all. And fleet compositions and fittings vary with time and they vary from alliance to alliance, even from corp to corp. Therefore probably the only "right" thing to do would be asking your corp's military officers (please don't bug alliance military officers).
As far as missile boats go, they are not that much of a problem by themselves. However, mixing guns and missiles in the same fleet is bad, as the guns apply their damage much sooner than the missiles do. Therefore in most cases, before your missiles actually connect, the target is already either dead or being repped by enemy logistics.
If you are intent on flying Caldari, they can fill some very important support roles in most fleets. Take a look at the Scorpion, Falcon, Basilisk, Vulture for large engagements, or the Blackbird, Onyx, Cerberus and Kitsune for smaller gangs. The Manticore is good in bomber fleets or as a cloaky scout. The only Caldari battleships I've ever seen successfully used in direct combat are torpedo Ravens used as a poor man's dread to bash stationary objects. However since they are geared towards active tanking, they tend to die when an enemy fleet looks at them the wrong way. ---
Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:34:00 -
[30]
Stealth bombers are really limited in their usefulness and don't fit well into many fleet compositions. For smaller gangs the drake works just fine. People telling you otherwise either don't know what they're talking about or have gotten used to running high isk, specialised gangs that most people can't field.
Most alliances prefer two types of fleets:
Buffered abaddons with guardian support. Alpha maelstroms.
If you really want to do a lot of fleet stuff just crosstrain maelstroms or abaddons depending on what your alliance fields, whilst flying dictors or ceptors in the meantime. Light and heavy dictors are always wanted in fleets, obviously. Some alliances field a lot of scorpions so you've already got a useful ship there at least.
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