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Moraguth
Ranger Corp
35
   |
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
The current build price of a retriever is well over 20m isk in raw minerals since the change in requirements. However, if you reprocess a retriever, it only gives you the old build value of about 7m back. I have perfect refine and am looking at mineral prices in Amarr.
How long till this is planned on being fixed?
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
highonpop
Eve Liberation Force
Fatal Ascension
257
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
never-not-break-eveGäó
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
highonpop wrote:never-not-break-eveGäó
you think it would break eve?
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
lanyaie
515
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Deal with it
What do I put in here?
|
Pipa Porto
870
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:How long till this is planned on being fixed?
At the same time bombs and every other item with extra materials gets "fixed."
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
264
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:The current build price of a retriever is well over 20m isk in raw minerals since the change in requirements. However, if you reprocess a retriever, it only gives you the old build value of about 7m back. I have perfect refine and am looking at mineral prices in Amarr.
How long till this is planned on being fixed?
This is a feature, one which there was plenty of forewarning about, CCP wanted to eliminate people building ships before changes to their mineral cost then reprocessing them post-patch to magic minerals out of nowhere. |
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's "extra materials" - this was discussed at length before the patch. Basically, it's lost materials that do not come back in the reprocessing.
There will be no fix as it was intentional. If people thought that this was a bug, do you really think that they would be working through the surplus of Rets @ 18-20M per unit instead of holding them for a reprocess value of 27M? |
Azami Nevinyrall
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
399
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Working as intended...
Do you know what a sh*t-barometer is? It measures the sh*t-pressure in the air, did you hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of sh*t... |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
All - I didn't think this was a bug, and I saw it mentioned once before the patch. Also, I didn't know this affected bombs too... crazy. Anyway, I understand why it wasn't made that way from the very beginning, but after awhile, it just doesn't make sense to have things reprocess so poorly.
A month, 6 months, a year? Surely there must be some point at which they don't think people will be able to "cash in on *free* minerals", right?
Do capital ships still reprocess to their old build requirements? What about the other things (that I can't think of off the top of my head)?
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2649
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why would you reprocess a retriever? I'm sure there are plenty of new botters who would like to purchase one at a discount. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½Now one of the most popular blogs in EVE. Find out why! |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Okay, so instead of just bitching about it, maybe I should ask questions instead.
Does anyone else feel that it should be fixed like I do (even if that is at some point in the future)?
Assuming you do, how long do you think they should wait before making the reprocessed value comparable to the build value?
If you don't, why not?
==========
as a side question, since I can't log in for a few more hours, is the max insurance payout close to the current mineral value or the old?
Should that change if it isn't (close to) the current mineral value?
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Why would you reprocess a retriever? I'm sure there are plenty of new botters who would like to purchase one at a discount.
heh, i've already sold all 100 of my old-build-cost retrievers ... now i'm working with the new values, and it is NOT pretty.
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2392
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Okay, so instead of just bitching about it, maybe I should ask questions instead.
Does anyone else feel that it should be fixed like I do (even if that is at some point in the future)?
Assuming you do, how long do you think they should wait before making the reprocessed value comparable to the build value?
If you don't, why not?
==========
as a side question, since I can't log in for a few more hours, is the max insurance payout close to the current mineral value or the old?
Should that change if it isn't (close to) the current mineral value?
I agree it should be adjusted (in time) to be comparable with other reprocessed items... for the sake of continuity if nothing else. It's best to bring it up once in a while so that it doesn't get forgotten about (as so many little things do). If you don't, things accumulate and end up being a whole big mess of things that make little sense after awhile.
Of course, EVE being EVE, this means that they probably can't give you a time frame else they would have people holding out to try and manipulate the market at that time.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Also - to those of you saying that this was "discussed at length" already, do you by any chance have a link to where a dev responded to the issue? I have found none so far.
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:James 315 wrote:Why would you reprocess a retriever? I'm sure there are plenty of new botters who would like to purchase one at a discount. heh, i've already sold all 100 of my old-build-cost retrievers ... now i'm working with the new values, and it is NOT pretty.
Start buying the old ones that are selling below new cost, invent Mack's, sell Mack's. Once the old stockpiles of Retrievers has been burned through, prices should adjust back up to the new Retriever build price point.
Caveat: I just pulled all this out of my ass pre-coffee. I have not researched the invent cost of Mack's yet, nor have any idea of the amount of stockpiled Retrievers. I'm sure it a metric ****-ton.
PS: Or, start suicide ganking Ret's to speed up the process. Either way Ret makers are going to have to hope for the pre-change supply to dry up some before it becomes profitable to fire up the furnaces again.
|
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
264
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
To be honest, any created post-patch (Note construction starting post-patch) should have full mineral reprocessing, those with ID's created before hand are forever stuck at old values. |
Pipa Porto
870
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Charles Baker wrote:To be honest, any created post-patch (Note construction starting post-patch) should have full mineral reprocessing, those with ID's created before hand are forever stuck at old values.
The Devs have said many times that any time something is packaged and stacked, it becomes impossible to trace back to before that time.
Also, you'd have to split the market and a bunch of other annoyances.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Charles Baker wrote:To be honest, any created post-patch (Note construction starting post-patch) should have full mineral reprocessing, those with ID's created before hand are forever stuck at old values. The Devs have said many times that any time something is packaged and stacked, it becomes impossible to trace back to before that time. Also, you'd have to split the market and a bunch of other annoyances.
Truth. Which is why I think that there should be some sort of time limit, and then all retrievers switch to the actual mineral value instead.
If nothing else, than for consistency's sake.
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
265
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Charles Baker wrote:To be honest, any created post-patch (Note construction starting post-patch) should have full mineral reprocessing, those with ID's created before hand are forever stuck at old values. The Devs have said many times that any time something is packaged and stacked, it becomes impossible to trace back to before that time. Also, you'd have to split the market and a bunch of other annoyances.
Then i have one answer to them, code your database better. |
Pipa Porto
872
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Charles Baker wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Charles Baker wrote:To be honest, any created post-patch (Note construction starting post-patch) should have full mineral reprocessing, those with ID's created before hand are forever stuck at old values. The Devs have said many times that any time something is packaged and stacked, it becomes impossible to trace back to before that time. Also, you'd have to split the market and a bunch of other annoyances. Then i have one answer to them, code your database better.
Why should you keep track of individual units of commodities?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
873
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Truth. Which is why I think that there should be some sort of time limit, and then all retrievers switch to the actual mineral value instead.
If nothing else, than for consistency's sake.
Why? All that would do would cause people to hoard their ships and artificially prop up the price.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Moraguth wrote:Truth. Which is why I think that there should be some sort of time limit, and then all retrievers switch to the actual mineral value instead.
If nothing else, than for consistency's sake. Why? All that would do would cause people to hoard their ships and artificially prop up the price.
except that "artificially propped up price" would be closer to the actual price of the ship. like i said before, the actual build cost right now is over 3 times (and closer to 4 times) the old mineral value. right now they're selling just under 3x the value.
It doesn't make sense compared to (damn near) every other item in the game!
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Sun Win
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
71
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:
except that "artificially propped up price" would be closer to the actual price of the ship. like i said before, the actual build cost right now is over 3 times (and closer to 4 times) the old mineral value. right now they're selling just under 3x the value.
It doesn't make sense compared to (damn near) every other item in the game!
That's because before the patch industrialists who were paying attention built these ships in vast numbers. They are now slowly selling off their stock which were built at pre-patch mineral costs. Of course the ships cost close to the old mineral value.
Eventually, those ships will all be sold and the cost will climb. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9386
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think they particularly care if people manage to make money on the switch-over GÇö the mineral injection is a bigger issue.
So all they have to do is wait until the number of ships that have been destroyed or recycled post-patch match the total number of ships in circulation pre-patchGǪ 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Pipa Porto
873
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Moraguth wrote:Truth. Which is why I think that there should be some sort of time limit, and then all retrievers switch to the actual mineral value instead.
If nothing else, than for consistency's sake. Why? All that would do would cause people to hoard their ships and artificially prop up the price. except that "artificially propped up price" would be closer to the actual price of the ship. like i said before, the actual build cost right now is over 3 times (and closer to 4 times) the old mineral value. right now they're selling just under 3x the value. It doesn't make sense compared to (damn near) every other item in the game!
The value of any commodity is the price people who have it are willing to sell it for and people who don't have it are willing to buy it for. The amount it costs you to build it is irrelevant.
By the way, every T2 item and almost every Faction/Deadspace item has a value that is entirely divorced from its reprocessed value. Mining Barges are simply another in the long list of items whose prices are not strongly connected to their reprocessed value.
By the way, why do you care if the reprocessed value of an item is different from the build value?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9387
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:By the way, why do you care if the reprocessed value of an item is different from the build value? GǪbecause every now and then, it allows you to pick up some free minerals, which is always nice. 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Moraguth wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Moraguth wrote:Truth. Which is why I think that there should be some sort of time limit, and then all retrievers switch to the actual mineral value instead.
If nothing else, than for consistency's sake. Why? All that would do would cause people to hoard their ships and artificially prop up the price. except that "artificially propped up price" would be closer to the actual price of the ship. like i said before, the actual build cost right now is over 3 times (and closer to 4 times) the old mineral value. right now they're selling just under 3x the value. It doesn't make sense compared to (damn near) every other item in the game! The value of any commodity is the price people who have it are willing to sell it for and people who don't have it are willing to buy it for. The amount it costs you to build it is irrelevant. By the way, every T2 item and almost every Faction/Deadspace item has a value that is entirely divorced from its reprocessed value. Mining Barges are simply another in the long list of items whose prices are not strongly connected to their reprocessed value. By the way, why do you care if the reprocessed value of an item is different from the build value?
With very few exceptions, meta 0 items have a price that is very VERY close to the build cost. But in other terms... the value of the minerals of a reprocessed retriever is about 25% of the value of the minerals required to build one. It should be much, MUCH higher than that to be in line with pretty much every other meta 0 item in the game (modules and ships).
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Zanarkand
Enterprise Estonia
Northern Coalition.
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think they will ninja-fix it in the future, when they are confident that activity in the retriever market becomes normal. |
Pipa Porto
875
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 21:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:With very few exceptions, meta 0 items have a price that is very VERY close to the build cost. But in other terms... the value of the minerals of a reprocessed retriever is about 25% of the value of the minerals required to build one. It should be much, MUCH higher than that to be in line with pretty much every other meta 0 item in the game (modules and ships).
Hey, guess what, Barges are now part of that list of exceptions. Tah Dah.
CCP's not likely to free up a huge amount of minerals that came from nowhere. You're not likely to convince CCP to flood the market with free minerals with the ever so convincing "but almost every other item (besides T2, POS modules, Bombs, auto-targeters, etc) is reprocess-able and I want to have an artificial price floor so I can make a profit on this BPO that I bought to cash in on the materials increase."
By the way, Bombs have an even lower percentage return.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
101
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 22:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Okay, so instead of just bitching about it, maybe I should ask questions instead.
Does anyone else feel that it should be fixed like I do (even if that is at some point in the future)?
Assuming you do, how long do you think they should wait before making the reprocessed value comparable to the build value?
If you don't, why not?
==========
as a side question, since I can't log in for a few more hours, is the max insurance payout close to the current mineral value or the old?
Should that change if it isn't (close to) the current mineral value?
I am kind of in the opposite camp I think everything should have a large nerf when reprocessed. Everything should be like the retriever is. A huge mineral sink in the game. If you reprocess something at best you should get back 50% of what went into building it.
But that will not fly with CCP so then when if ever to restore the reporcessing of the mining barges?
At least 1 year maybe even 1.5 years. So maybe for the winter expansion of 2013/14.
Herr Hammer Draken
"The Amarr Prophet" |
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