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dhunpael Caldari Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:08:00 - [1] Edited by: dhunpael on 20/05/2011 16:08:29 It came to my attention that a used technique is to selfdestruct ships in a POS. This denies the attackers a nice share in the loot. On top of that the guy's who are selfdestrucing ships are still getting isk for non insured ships. I feel that the ships destroyed are casualty's of war, and should belong on the killboard. I would understand it if you could shoot a ship that's also in the pos (so corp members shooting each other). In this case they still get the insurance, but at least there losses count. mayby something for a next update?
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:21:00 - [2] ummm no ------------------------------------
JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:24:00 - [3] This is just one of those things that you have to get used to in all honesty.
Kile Hannad	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:27:00 - [4] If they killed themselves, then THEY should get the KM, you ddin't do anything :P While you may feel you scared them into doing it, it leads into my next point... You need to address, who gets a KM when they self destruct when no one else is around? Self Destruct is a valid tactic to deny an enemy something they want, that is, your wreck, your corpse, and your name/ship on their killboard. The real thing that needs to change, is self destruction should cause damage to nearby ships, because that would only further add to it being a valid tactic for countering your enemies. In most sci-fi generes, self destruct or ramming other ships in used as a last ditch effort to destroy your enemy. If CCP truly wants to create the ultimate Sci-Fi experience like they say, this should certainly be added. You don't deserve the KM if you can't kill them, it's that simple.
Uwi M'bawehp	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:31:00 - [5] I think the real issue here is that you can actually self destruct inside a pos shield.
Kile Hannad	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Kile Hannad on 20/05/2011 16:52:11 Originally by: Uwi M'bawehp I think the real issue here is that you can actually self destruct inside a pos shield. While that may be one point, the OP did specify annoyance at another point, "dhunpael- It came to my attention that a used technique is to selfdestruct ships in a POS. *This denies the attackers a nice share in the loot."" He seems to be more ***ed about that denial than anything else. Anything to deny someone is good for EVE isn't it?
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:55:00 - [7] Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good.
CosDashit Palpatine Crypsus	Posted - 2011.05.20 16:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. ^that. Agreed. That ends up being the focus for too many players, they care less about the game and more about their stats on BattleClinic and EVEkill ect.
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:33:00 - [9] Why would somebody self destruct anyway if nobody can shoot him? Whats the reason for self destructing a worthy ship if u are not in danger loosing it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
colera deldios Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see.

Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:40:00 - [11] Originally by: LordInvisible Why would somebody self destruct anyway if nobody can shoot him? Whats the reason for self destructing a worthy ship if u are not in danger loosing it? Well if the enemy has the POS Bubbled and is seiging there way in, pulling each ship out of the Corp Hanger and blowing them up is a good way to keep them from getting the ships and Mods as well as getting the insurance for the ship. I would rather get insurance from 50 Battleships and 5 Carriers then giving the enemy a new fleet to keep or sell.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:42:00 - [12] Scorched earth tactics are good. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:44:00 - [13] Can i POS be bubbled 100%? I mean, its not hard to get covert ops into position to warp from it and dodge bubbles? I mean, its long time since i0ve been in 0.0, so i dont know if POSs get bubbled that much.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.05.20 17:56:00 - [14] Originally by: LordInvisible Can i POS be bubbled 100%? I mean, its not hard to get covert ops into position to warp from it and dodge bubbles? I mean, its long time since i0ve been in 0.0, so i dont know if POSs get bubbled that much.. It isn't just about the bubble, if they are taking your territory and are much bigger then you they could have gangs all over. Even if you could cram 80+ ships through a hole in the bubble, evacuating them to safe space is something different entirely. This way they don't get the killmail, the loot or the ship. Not a fun tactic but it has it's uses.
Traejun DiSanctis Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.20 18:00:00 - [15] Originally by: dhunpael Edited by: dhunpael on 20/05/2011 16:08:29 It came to my attention that a used technique is to selfdestruct ships in a POS. This denies the attackers a nice share in the loot. On top of that the guy's who are selfdestrucing ships are still getting isk for non insured ships. I feel that the ships destroyed are casualty's of war, and should belong on the killboard. I would understand it if you could shoot a ship that's also in the pos (so corp members shooting each other). In this case they still get the insurance, but at least there losses count. mayby something for a next update? It's like a final, parting gift to the people attacking them. One last "**** your mother", for posterity's sake.
Jack Tronic	Posted - 2011.05.20 18:09:00 - [16] Ah narwhals, you guys recently bash a wh pos and the residents were too smart for you?
Kile Hannad	Posted - 2011.05.20 18:11:00 - [17] Originally by: colera deldios Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see. If KillBoards equal "winning at EVE" you're telling me that Highsec Station Campers who have a bunch of kills are winning and playing the game right then?
Harbingour Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.20 19:34:00 - [18] booo hoo greifers are crying see my 2 fingers playing the worlds smallest violin?
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2011.05.20 19:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: LordInvisible Can i POS be bubbled 100%? I mean, its not hard to get covert ops into position to warp from it and dodge bubbles? I mean, its long time since i0ve been in 0.0, so i dont know if POSs get bubbled that much.. It isn't just about the bubble, if they are taking your territory and are much bigger then you they could have gangs all over. Even if you could cram 80+ ships through a hole in the bubble, evacuating them to safe space is something different entirely. This way they don't get the killmail, the loot or the ship. Not a fun tactic but it has it's uses. Other POS? But yeah, u have a point..
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.05.20 19:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. Yep, that they do.

JC Anderson Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.05.20 20:16:00 - [21] Edited by: JC Anderson on 20/05/2011 20:21:59 Originally by: LordInvisible Can i POS be bubbled 100%? I mean, its not hard to get covert ops into position to warp from it and dodge bubbles? I mean, its long time since i0ve been in 0.0, so i dont know if POSs get bubbled that much.. Yes a pos can be fully bubbled/**** caged. However you have to leave a small opening for ships to get out else you run the risk of a GM arriving and taking down all of your bubbles. But in order for a gm to be alerted to it, a petition has to be filed. And since a good majority of people in Eve do not know about this, few petitions are ever sent. The opening is so small though that its still difficult. During one pos siege I have seen defenders get a bit creative by lining a cloaked ship up in perfect position at an ss to act as a warp to. The positioning has to be perfect though and in line with the opening for it to work. We usually leave the opening at the very top or bottom of the cage so that it doesn't line up with any celestials.
Celeste Tatiana	Posted - 2011.05.20 23:18:00 - [22] This has always been a joke of game mechanics. A game of risk vs reward. Where I can sit inside the force field and self-destruct 20 billion isk in ships, collecting 11-12 billion in insurance, having stripped all the mods and transporting them in 1 gtfo (transport) ship...all while enduring absolutely ZERO risk. Well, despite the hauling of the mods bit, but who cares about the mods when I just denied the enemy any chance at acquiring/killing said ships AND I redeemed nearly 60% of the base value. R_t_rd_d. Fill in the blanks. But yeah, simple fix would be 'since you can not target inside a force field, you also can not self-destruct inside a force field'. At least there is some form of risk involved, rather than just spitting free isk back to the pilot.
Traejun DiSanctis Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.20 23:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Celeste Tatiana This has always been a joke of game mechanics. A game of risk vs reward. Where I can sit inside the force field and self-destruct 20 billion isk in ships, collecting 11-12 billion in insurance, having stripped all the mods and transporting them in 1 gtfo (transport) ship...all while enduring absolutely ZERO risk. Well, despite the hauling of the mods bit, but who cares about the mods when I just denied the enemy any chance at acquiring/killing said ships AND I redeemed nearly 60% of the base value. R_t_rd_d. Fill in the blanks. But yeah, simple fix would be 'since you can not target inside a force field, you also can not self-destruct inside a force field'. At least there is some form of risk involved, rather than just spitting free isk back to the pilot. That would make having a PoS much less valuable. Especially so in WH space, where you could just raid into and out of it rather than attempt to occupy it. Your idea would reduce a PoS to little more than a gigantic cargo storage facility.
Saint Lazarus Pwn 'N Play Chaos Theory Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.21 00:05:00 - [24] I think OP just has a problem with SD as a tactic altogether. ----------------- My EvE Comic
Spectre Wraith Darwin Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.21 00:30:00 - [25] Self destruct is a viable tactic in any situation. Scorched Earth is great. "If I can't have it or want it, no one gets it."
Parsee789	Posted - 2011.05.21 01:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Parsee789 on 21/05/2011 01:03:18 I think its dumb that you collect insurance when self-destructing your ship. You should get zero for doing such. Infact the whole insurance system needs to be fixed.
S'qarpium D'igil	Posted - 2011.05.21 01:08:00 - [27] The real issue here is that a killboard kill is more important to some folks than watching your enemies willingly raze their own assets out of fear.
Solarienne Caldari Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.05.21 01:34:00 - [28] Originally by: dhunpael Edited by: dhunpael on 20/05/2011 16:08:29 It came to my attention that a used technique is to selfdestruct ships in a POS. This denies the attackers a nice share in the loot. On top of that the guy's who are selfdestrucing ships are still getting isk for non insured ships. I feel that the ships destroyed are casualty's of war, and should belong on the killboard. I would understand it if you could shoot a ship that's also in the pos (so corp members shooting each other). In this case they still get the insurance, but at least there losses count. mayby something for a next update? Dhun, this the price we pay for being that damned good. Ignore the killboard and revel in making your enemies defecate in their own living room! After all, mission accomplished if they gtfo back to empire.
Celeste Tatiana	Posted - 2011.05.21 01:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis Originally by: Celeste Tatiana This has always been a joke of game mechanics. A game of risk vs reward. Where I can sit inside the force field and self-destruct 20 billion isk in ships, collecting 11-12 billion in insurance, having stripped all the mods and transporting them in 1 gtfo (transport) ship...all while enduring absolutely ZERO risk. Well, despite the hauling of the mods bit, but who cares about the mods when I just denied the enemy any chance at acquiring/killing said ships AND I redeemed nearly 60% of the base value. R_t_rd_d. Fill in the blanks. But yeah, simple fix would be 'since you can not target inside a force field, you also can not self-destruct inside a force field'. At least there is some form of risk involved, rather than just spitting free isk back to the pilot. That would make having a PoS much less valuable. Especially so in WH space, where you could just raid into and out of it rather than attempt to occupy it. Your idea would reduce a PoS to little more than a gigantic cargo storage facility. How would making a pilot leave the force field to self-destruct make a POS "much less valuable"!? A POS isn't there so you can collect isk when self-destructing under the safety of a force field. Ideally, the real issue someone noted a few posts above is the entire insurance system. If someone self-destructs, they should receive 0 isk...just the benefit of no loss-mail. /2 cents
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.21 01:52:00 - [30] We need to get rid of stations too. People might sell thier ships and I can't destroy them! This is an outrage, damnit CCP. Fix this!!

Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.05.21 02:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Celeste Tatiana How would making a pilot leave the force field to self-destruct make a POS "much less valuable"!? A POS isn't there so you can collect isk when self-destructing under the safety of a force field. Ideally, the real issue someone noted a few posts above is the entire insurance system. If someone self-destructs, they should receive 0 isk...just the benefit of no loss-mail. /2 cents I kinda agree with the no insurance, no loss mail idea. Also Snipe.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker Vicious OuTLaW	Posted - 2011.05.21 03:51:00 - [32] Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil The real issue here is that a killboard kill is more important to some folks than watching your enemies willingly raze their own assets out of fear. This. Who the **** cares about kb stats? as long as you inflicted damage to another being, it is all worth it. also, the people who post all the noobships and cynoship kills on their kb, lol.
Soon Shin	Posted - 2011.05.21 07:36:00 - [33] I'm happy we kick their asses so hard they decided to not fight us with their alt alliance that they used to war dec us. I have yet to see them around. Here's a nice pic of their corpses floating in space after an engagement. http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3792/corpsesa.jpg
Amy Garzan Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.21 17:39:00 - [34] CCP has long established they want nothing to do with KBs. Personally I think too many people put too much faith in KBs. They have a place. But dont overload their use. -------------------------------------------------- 101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything
DHuncan	Posted - 2011.05.24 17:15:00 - [35] Originally by: colera deldios Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see. I didn't know EVE was 'a competitive pvp game'. Why then CCP don't just get rid of all industiral, social, etc skills. Just a market with ship and weapon would do. EVE contains pvp but is not all about, even dou most have not realised so.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.24 21:49:00 - [36] Originally by: DHuncan Originally by: colera deldios Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see. I didn't know EVE was 'a competitive pvp game'. Why then CCP don't just get rid of all industiral, social, etc skills. Just a market with ship and weapon would do. EVE contains pvp but is not all about, even dou most have not realised so. If you don't think that everything on EVE is about player-versus-player, than you need to take a look at the bigger picture. When you run your missions, take your loot/salvage and sell it to the buy orders, you're engaging in market PVP and losing it. The other player expected you to sell it for a low price, so that he can resell it for it's average sell price. If you put them on a sell order like you should, then you're engaging into proper market PVP by fighting other players and their prices. There are more ways to make someone's life miserable than just shooting him in the face. Most people on this thread and on this game need to realize that. ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.05.25 00:10:00 - [37] Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 25/05/2011 00:10:59 Originally by: colera deldios Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. To take and hold space. Quote: Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see. Hahaahahaha.
DHuncan	Posted - 2011.05.25 03:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Renan Ruivo Originally by: DHuncan Originally by: colera deldios Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. What is the point in a competetive pvp game without a ranking/scoring system. Some people play to win, others are content with being losers, and of course the losers don't want their terribleness on show for everyone to see. I didn't know EVE was 'a competitive pvp game'. Why then CCP don't just get rid of all industiral, social, etc skills. Just a market with ship and weapon would do. EVE contains pvp but is not all about, even dou most have not realised so. If you don't think that everything on EVE is about player-versus-player, than you need to take a look at the bigger picture. When you run your missions, take your loot/salvage and sell it to the buy orders, you're engaging in market PVP and losing it. The other player expected you to sell it for a low price, so that he can resell it for it's average sell price. If you put them on a sell order like you should, then you're engaging into proper market PVP by fighting other players and their prices. There are more ways to make someone's life miserable than just shooting him in the face. Most people on this thread and on this game need to realize that. You are right. We all play agains/along each other and the market is another battlefield. But I was reffering more at the combat PvP, as the topic was about killboard. Now an even bigger picture would place industrials asking pirates to destroy more ships so sales increase as players would need to buy ship replacement. Glad ores grow every morning.
Baraka Saibot	Posted - 2011.05.25 04:21:00 - [39] Edited by: Baraka Saibot on 25/05/2011 04:21:25 He self-destructed... And apparently, he won. Well played.
Wen Jaibao Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.05.25 06:09:00 - [40] Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 25/05/2011 06:11:54 Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 25/05/2011 06:09:34 Originally by: dhunpael Edited by: dhunpael on 20/05/2011 16:08:29 It came to my attention that a used technique is to selfdestruct ships in a POS. This denies the attackers a nice share in the loot. On top of that the guy's who are selfdestrucing ships are still getting isk for non insured ships. I feel that the ships destroyed are casualty's of war, and should belong on the killboard. I would understand it if you could shoot a ship that's also in the pos (so corp members shooting each other). In this case they still get the insurance, but at least there losses count. mayby something for a next update? Welcome to every single eviction we've ever done. Its slightly demoralizing for an attacker, especially when the defenders outnumber and outgun you significantly and still self destruct all of their assets. ITS NOT ABOUT STUPID KILLBOARDS. ITS NOT ABOUT ****TY LOOT. ITS ABOUT BEING DENIED EPIC FIGHTS.

Jennz	Posted - 2011.05.25 07:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Wen Jaibao Welcome to every single eviction we've ever done. Its slightly demoralizing for an attacker, especially when the defenders outnumber and outgun you significantly and still self destruct all of their assets. ITS NOT ABOUT STUPID KILLBOARDS. ITS NOT ABOUT ***TY LOOT. ITS ABOUT BEING DENIED EPIC FIGHTS. Not calling you out but why do you assume that because they have superior numbers that they want* to fight? Evicting someone already makes you the aggressor, if they weren't looking to fight in the first place why do you assume they would automatically want to?
Wen Jaibao Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.05.25 07:49:00 - [42] Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 25/05/2011 07:54:12 Originally by: Jennz Originally by: Wen Jaibao Welcome to every single eviction we've ever done. Its slightly demoralizing for an attacker, especially when the defenders outnumber and outgun you significantly and still self destruct all of their assets. ITS NOT ABOUT STUPID KILLBOARDS. ITS NOT ABOUT ***TY LOOT. ITS ABOUT BEING DENIED EPIC FIGHTS. Not calling you out but why do you assume that because they have superior numbers that they want* to fight? Evicting someone already makes you the aggressor, if they weren't looking to fight in the first place why do you assume they would automatically want to? Maybe the incentive of 'losing everything' should be enough to get a fight. I honestly think killboards are the source of this behavior- people don't want to show losses, because that would damage their e-peen, therefore they'd rather SD all their ships and call it a 'victory' than take the chance of losing ships and therefore looking bad. Anyways, the ISK damage is still delt especially if they are SDing T3s or T2s, its just incredibly boring. Oh, and I know if someone attacked in our system, no matter how big or small the agressing force, we'd fight until the pilot was podded out. Mass SD'ing ships in a POS is not only boring, its petty cowardice.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.05.25 22:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Wen Jaibao Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 25/05/2011 07:54:12 Originally by: Jennz Originally by: Wen Jaibao Welcome to every single eviction we've ever done. Its slightly demoralizing for an attacker, especially when the defenders outnumber and outgun you significantly and still self destruct all of their assets. ITS NOT ABOUT STUPID KILLBOARDS. ITS NOT ABOUT ***TY LOOT. ITS ABOUT BEING DENIED EPIC FIGHTS. Not calling you out but why do you assume that because they have superior numbers that they want* to fight? Evicting someone already makes you the aggressor, if they weren't looking to fight in the first place why do you assume they would automatically want to? Maybe the incentive of 'losing everything' should be enough to get a fight. I honestly think killboards are the source of this behavior- people don't want to show losses, because that would damage their e-peen, therefore they'd rather SD all their ships and call it a 'victory' than take the chance of losing ships and therefore looking bad. Anyways, the ISK damage is still delt especially if they are SDing T3s or T2s, its just incredibly boring. Oh, and I know if someone attacked in our system, no matter how big or small the agressing force, we'd fight until the pilot was podded out. Mass SD'ing ships in a POS is not only boring, its petty cowardice. I completely agree that this is the sort of behavior killmails and killboards lead to. I think killmails should be removed for the same reason. I much prefer PVPing to spinning in station jerking off to my k/d ratio. I disagree with calling it "cowardice" though. The fact is, in EVE, if you look terrible on the killboards, most players won't respect you, and that has serious implications for how the political game (the really interesting part of EVE) works out. Look at this thread, and how many people here call people with bad k/d ratio's "losers." I have no problem losing ships every time I undock - but my corp sure does, and their allies do, and if I start to look bad on the killboards then I lose my home. We're all tied into this horrible system, and the way to break it is to change the system fundamentally by removing killmails. So long as they exist, they will be the metric, and so long as they are the metric, we get the sort of play where people would rather self-destruct than risk a fight they might lose.
Glyken Touchon Gallente Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.05.25 22:24:00 - [44] I think SD while under an aggro timer should send a killmail. Originally by: CosDa*** Palpatine* Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Killboards have to go, they cause more bad than good. ^that. Agreed. That ends up being the focus for too many players, they care less about the game and more about their stats on BattleClinic and EVEkill ect. I used to think the same, but I've changed my mind. They do serve a purpose, but I would vote for them to only show dropped mods+cargo and not destroyed things. If you want to find out how they're fitted/what they're carrying, fit the relevant scanner. ______ Originally by: CCP Veritas In other words, I believe Dogma is doing stupid things, and I intend to beat the stupid out of it before considering giving it rocket boots.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.05.26 00:22:00 - [45] Should have AOE damage from the exploding ship. Blow enough of them up inside the POS and you start losing anchored structures, and other things. The bigger the ship the more damage it does, in a wider radius. :P - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.26 01:15:00 - [46] Working as intended.
Wen Jaibao Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.05.26 12:18:00 - [47] Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 26/05/2011 12:18:35 Originally by: Emperor Cheney I completely agree that this is the sort of behavior killmails and killboards lead to. I think killmails should be removed for the same reason. I much prefer PVPing to spinning in station jerking off to my k/d ratio. I disagree with calling it "cowardice" though. The fact is, in EVE, if you look terrible on the killboards, most players won't respect you, and that has serious implications for how the political game (the really interesting part of EVE) works out. Look at this thread, and how many people here call people with bad k/d ratio's "losers." I have no problem losing ships every time I undock - but my corp sure does, and their allies do, and if I start to look bad on the killboards then I lose my home. We're all tied into this horrible system, and the way to break it is to change the system fundamentally by removing killmails. So long as they exist, they will be the metric, and so long as they are the metric, we get the sort of play where people would rather self-destruct than risk a fight they might lose. That's a well thought out response. Fortunately for me, my corp does not stress over KB stats; so when we fight people that DO, it's extremely frustrating to try and get a fight out of them. On that note I would love to see killmails removed too, but it goes beyond the scope of this thread


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