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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 13:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ghoest on 23/05/2011 13:23:25
Im not saying that no one uses it.
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.23 14:25:00 -
[2]
well the costs are always on all the slots being used so if
ME | PE | copy are all occupied then they will go up, however PE is nearly never over subscribbed the prices are the same IYSWIM
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.05.23 14:27:00 -
[3]
It's not a dead profession, just a bunch of dead scientists...
 Originally by: Ghoest
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
Say what?  Sense this make not.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Greg Huff
Originally by: Ghoest
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
Say what? Sense this make not.
That made sense.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.05.23 16:51:00 -
[5]
so science is dead because non of your 'could-count-them-on-the-fingers-of-one-hand' friends do it?
Of course science isnt dead, what a stupid thing to say, where do all our tech2 and tech3 items come from?
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OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN! |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Skippermonkey
so science is dead because non of your 'could-count-them-on-the-fingers-of-one-hand' friends do it?
Of course science isnt dead, what a stupid thing to say, where do all our tech2 and tech3 items come from?
I think he based his opinion on the available invention slots. Although still a lot of people use them, i think it's safe to say most of the serious inventors upgrade to a POS sooner or later.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: clixor
Originally by: Skippermonkey
so science is dead because non of your 'could-count-them-on-the-fingers-of-one-hand' friends do it?
Of course science isnt dead, what a stupid thing to say, where do all our tech2 and tech3 items come from?
I think he based his opinion on the available invention slots. Although still a lot of people use them, i think it's safe to say most of the serious inventors upgrade to a POS sooner or later.
1 its silly to talk to skipper - nothing he says is serious.
2 - its based on the decreased value added to by projects done in labs
Copies are selling for less.
Resale values of researched prints are dropping.
T2 BPCs seems to be dropping.
As I said science jobs are still being done, but the value that the science job adds to an end product is dropping because we seem to have an over capacity relaive to demand for the capacity.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Salejah
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:39:00 -
[8]
Quote:
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
That indicates that science is booming and there is more people researching then ever.
Or did you try to say that science isn't big free ISK anymore?
Well if there's easy money to be made more and more people will do it until theres something better to invest in and prices/capacity stabilizes.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Salejah
Quote:
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
That indicates that science is booming and there is more people researching then ever.
Or did you try to say that science isn't big free ISK anymore?
Well if there's easy money to be made more and more people will do it until theres something better to invest in and prices/capacity stabilizes.
I think what it said was clear. There are more people and potential slots available than there is need for those potential slots.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.23 20:21:00 -
[10]
CCP won't give us batch jobs.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.23 20:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ghoest
Im not saying that no one uses it.
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
My current bottleneck is copying and invention. This past month I've purchased several hundred million in BPC, and am finding it isn't enough to meet my manufacturing/sales requirements. I'm also seeing BPC prices rise as a result.
From my point of view, it isn't dead.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 20:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Ghoest
Im not saying that no one uses it.
But is there so much science capacity relative to need that it is nearly free?
My current bottleneck is copying and invention. This past month I've purchased several hundred million in BPC, and am finding it isn't enough to meet my manufacturing/sales requirements. I'm also seeing BPC prices rise as a result.
From my point of view, it isn't dead.
Thats interesting. Its its not what I seemed to be seeing but but maybe my perspective is too narrow.
Anyway, thans for at least responding to what I was saying.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.24 09:41:00 -
[13]
The price of NPC labs (& Factories) should be completely free to float based on demand, just like station rent.
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DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RaTTuS
well the costs are always on all the slots being used so if
ME | PE | copy are all occupied then they will go up, however PE is nearly never over subscribbed the prices are the same IYSWIM
CCP need to seperate me/pe cost calculations.
pe drags the cost down way too much.
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Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! ! |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 24/05/2011 09:55:32
I think research has become just another commodity, researcher alts sit idle because of a lack of copy slots. Yes you could run a POS but if you don't want the hassle of spending an inordinate amount of time on logistics you have to put up with month long copy queues at most stations. Miners are not forced to build their own Hulks or Production miner their own miners, research should not be forced to run a POS.
The substitutability available to pretty much all other professions is not there to researchers, be there is an imbalance between the number of copy slots and the other research facilities.
Factory slots are not split between Module, Amo, ships etc, and neither should labs. NPC lab slots should be pooled, instead of W invention, X copy, Y ME, Z PE, there should be W+X+Y+Z research slots that can be used for any research task and at a price that is completely free to float based on demand, just like station rent.
There are enough copyslots available, only not in the premium locations. Why everybody expects everything to be available in abundant proportions, why not skip everything and make a 'give me isk' button?
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Proton Power
Amarr
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: clixor
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 24/05/2011 09:55:32
I think research has become just another commodity, researcher alts sit idle because of a lack of copy slots. Yes you could run a POS but if you don't want the hassle of spending an inordinate amount of time on logistics you have to put up with month long copy queues at most stations. Miners are not forced to build their own Hulks or Production miner their own miners, research should not be forced to run a POS.
The substitutability available to pretty much all other professions is not there to researchers, be there is an imbalance between the number of copy slots and the other research facilities.
Factory slots are not split between Module, Amo, ships etc, and neither should labs. NPC lab slots should be pooled, instead of W invention, X copy, Y ME, Z PE, there should be W+X+Y+Z research slots that can be used for any research task and at a price that is completely free to float based on demand, just like station rent.
There are enough copyslots available, only not in the premium locations. Why everybody expects everything to be available in abundant proportions, why not skip everything and make a 'give me isk' button?
Old school used to be this way in some ways. It was priced based on demaind/use. People would rent them out, stick shuttle BPO's in them and try to sell the slots. Granted now you can put in a job ontop of a job, so this may not be that big of an issue now.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.25 08:42:00 -
[17]
I often wonder why I bother posting when the responses clearly show what I wrote was not actually read.
Originally by: clixor
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
at a price that is completely free to float based on demand, just like station rent.
There are enough copyslots available, only not in the premium locations. Why everybody expects everything to be available in abundant proportions, why not skip everything and make a 'give me isk' button?
Bold for emphasis.
Prices would go UP, not down.
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.25 10:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I often wonder why I bother posting when the responses clearly show what I wrote was not actually read.
Originally by: clixor
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
at a price that is completely free to float based on demand, just like station rent.
There are enough copyslots available, only not in the premium locations. Why everybody expects everything to be available in abundant proportions, why not skip everything and make a 'give me isk' button?
Bold for emphasis.
Prices would go UP, not down.
And this is working VERY well for manufactering slots now is it, unless the adjusted prices based on demand really starts cutting into overall costs this won't change anything.
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Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:14:00 -
[19]
Actually the idea of having dynamic costs for public ME/PE/copy/invention slots based on actual usage per station (similar to the dynamic costs of renting out a corp office, maybe a bit less brutal) is quite an interesting one as it would really cull the market from the "also ran" inventors and force people to either make the choice of putting up a POS, taking a significant hit to profits or move to a more periferal location.
Overall it would increase conflict and that should be good for EVE no?
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Proton Power
Amarr
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cyniac
Actually the idea of having dynamic costs for public ME/PE/copy/invention slots based on actual usage per station (similar to the dynamic costs of renting out a corp office, maybe a bit less brutal) is quite an interesting one as it would really cull the market from the "also ran" inventors and force people to either make the choice of putting up a POS, taking a significant hit to profits or move to a more periferal location.
Overall it would increase conflict and that should be good for EVE no?
One interesting part is that it would get people out of the main hubs or close to them.
Bad Parts:
Hauling. You would be forced to haul goods further, and further and further out since the factories close would soon become to expensive.
Multiple Build Characters:
I can have up to 120 or so jobs going at any one time, I don't want to be punished because of this, and since I woudl fill the factories alone with just my alts even in an unused area of space, I would alone raise the price to stupid high fee's.
If they re-did how POS Arrays worked a bit and made it so you can fit a bit more onto one POS I wouldnt mind this, but knowing a corp with only 4 people, we have 4 pos's and 3 of the 4 are maxed out with no room for anything else. So somthign would have to change there.
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Tsabrock
Gallente
Circle of Friends
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Posted - 2011.05.31 20:52:00 -
[21]
Science, industry, and POS's have needed an overhaul for years. Science hasn't seen any major changes since the beginning, and Industry isn't that far behind, being something of a hodgepodge of systems that share little-to-no synergy with each other.
POS's have also needed an overhaul for years. There's been a lot of good ideas on how to do just that over in the Ideas and Features forum - I even posted some ideas myself back a couple years ago.
Anything would be good though, I've barely done any Industry lately, being bored with it all. The last bit of excitement I had there was when the Noctis came out (not counting the numerous gatecamps I crashed with my Tengu).
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If you've read something I posted and want to contact me, EVE-Mail me, or contact me via EVE Gate. |
Shira Elan
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Posted - 2011.05.31 23:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cyniac
Actually the idea of having dynamic costs for public ME/PE/copy/invention slots based on actual usage per station (similar to the dynamic costs of renting out a corp office, maybe a bit less brutal) is quite an interesting one as it would really cull the market from the "also ran" inventors and force people to either make the choice of putting up a POS, taking a significant hit to profits or move to a more periferal location.
Overall it would increase conflict and that should be good for EVE no?
They already to this. The problem is that ME and PE slots are linked in price, so if theres a few PE slots always available, you can get ME queue times up to infinity and prices won't move. Kind of obnoxious given the convenience factor of an NPC station lab versus a POS lab.
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