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Ralf Smith
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:57:00 -
[1]
Assuming no other changes between a covetor and a hulk other than exhumers III, how much better is a hulk compared to a covetor, is it worth it?
What other skills and items can you use to make highsec hulk even more profitable?
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Raven Signature Tutorial |
Apex Bex
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:02:00 -
[2]
If you intend to mine a lot in a safe environment then yes, a Hulk is worth it. The best way to increase yield on a Hulk is to mine with a well skilled Orca pilot and to train Exhumers to the highest level. Furthermore, using tech II ore specific mining crystals will improve your yield even further, if you haven't already done that.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 02:08:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Ralf Smith
Assuming no other changes between a covetor and a hulk other than exhumers III, how much better is a hulk compared to a covetor, is it worth it?
For jetcan-mining and L3 exhumers, 9% better without extra MLUs, multiply with whatever the extra MLUs give to that.
For regular mining, even more, thanks to the extra cargohold.
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Brego Tralowski
Galactic Extensive Technologies
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Posted - 2011.05.24 05:16:00 -
[4]
There are also some Implants for slot 10 I bilieve, that increase your yield, even a cheap 3% implants is an improvement.
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Be a Drifter in a Rifter. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.05.24 12:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Velicitia on 24/05/2011 12:57:16
This is from memory... so the numbers are probably off a touch (yay for posting from work).
skills:
Exhumers 5 (extra 6%)
Mining Laser upgrades 4 (or 5... whichever is needed for MLU II)
various support skills for T2 crystals, enough CPU/PG/cap/etc to fit everything.
Modules:
MLU II x2 (9% each, though with the penalty, it's more along the lines of 15-17.5% overall)
T2 strip miners & T2 crystals (2-5% or something above T1 crystals, I think 10% or so above T1 strips WITH PROPER CRYSTALS)
Implants:
Highwall HX-2 (+5%, slot 10)
Michi's Excavation Augmentor (+5%, slot 7) -- note, this is crazy expensive.
edit:
Additionaly:
Orca support -- up to 25%(ish) time bonus, and 50%(ish) range increase and cap usage reduction, based on skills. works out to something like 5-7% realized yield
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Phaedren IV
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Posted - 2011.05.25 01:37:00 -
[6]
I'm confused about how a 25% time bonus would only be 7% increase in yield/time
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.25 02:15:00 -
[7]
Make sure to fit 2x MLU II on your Hulk instead of a tank.
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Thomas Turnpoint
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Posted - 2011.05.25 02:18:00 -
[8]
A hulk is better in high-sec (I don't travel low yet, so have no opinion there yet).
The primary thing is "can you afford to lose it?"
Covetor doesn't have the cargo and such, but it's a bit cheaper too.
I'm skill trained to fly a hulk, but have used a Covetor for a while now simply because I can easily afford to replace it (even if it wasn't insured).
Hulks are a bit more expensive, and it is up to personal choice as to whether or not you want to risk using a Hulk without the isk to simply replace it if you get popped (given,I have heard it's not easy to pop a Hulk, but there's always someone with more isk and nothing to do).
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Uncle Lenny
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.25 07:44:00 -
[9]
I can get a hulk to pull in around 1701 / cycle * 3 strippers = 5103m3 (approx) per cycle.
The best I can get out of a coveter is about 1357 / cycle * 3 strippers = 4071m3 (approx) per cycle.
You go ahead and do the math. The above numbers are assuming you have the most efficient skills and bonuses on your side. Coveter just isn't worth it in my eyes. Pilot a hulk all day and make some money. Also if you're in a bad situation, you can always set up a tank fit hulk to resist just about ANY gank. Can't do that with a coveter.
TL;DR - Get a hulk.
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Lutz Major
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Posted - 2011.05.25 07:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
... you can always set up a tank fit hulk to resist just about ANY gank ...
I laughed 
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Uncle Lenny
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.25 07:58:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Uncle Lenny on 25/05/2011 07:59:13
Originally by: Lutz Major
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
... you can always set up a tank fit hulk to resist just about ANY gank ...
I laughed
Did you? Because a well fit hulk cannot be solo ganked. (To my knowledge)
Know of something that will drop a hulk in high sec space when it has 36k EHP? If so please enlighten me...
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Lutz Major
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Posted - 2011.05.25 08:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
Edited by: Uncle Lenny on 25/05/2011 07:59:13
Originally by: Lutz Major
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
... you can always set up a tank fit hulk to resist just about ANY gank ...
I laughed
Did you? Because a well fit hulk cannot be solo ganked. (To my knowledge)
Know of something that will drop a hulk in high sec space when it has 36k EHP? If so please enlighten me...
Solo would be tough indeed, but two Apocs with 1400mm should do the trick. The fist ~11k alpha should insta-burn your shields and/or maybe a chunk of your armor. The second 11k will pod you.
Can you post your fit for that 36k EHP Hulk? Would be interested in it. I've seen a maxed 30k but 36k?!?
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Telchin Dai
Amarr
TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.25 09:18:00 -
[13]
I went from a retriever to a hulk, and am doing the same with my 2nd S&I char, I did get a covetor when I came back hulkless recently, but only for a short time, 17k m3 is just too nice to pass up, that, and L4 mining missions are a PITA in a covetor
T2 fittings are a must for a hulk imo, of course you can run with T1 fittings, but then you can also build at PE0, but its not as efficient.
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Velicitia on 25/05/2011 14:00:40
Originally by: Phaedren IV
I'm confused about how a 25% time bonus would only be 7% increase in yield/time
ah! for some reason the math I had was including the bonus from a foreman mindlink as well as the ganglink modules being operational on my "without orca" yield... so the numbers were skewed.
let's see if I can fix this:
I'm going to assume maxxed relevant skills, and T2 crystals.
Max skilled orca without time bonus -- about 15% better than max skilled solo hulk. (1961 vs 1705 m3 per min). This also assumes that you're using a mindlink, otherwise, ~10%.
Max skilled orca with time bonus -- about 55% better than max skilled solo hulk (2646 vs 1705 m3 per min).
yay for the law of diminishing returns in eve 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.25 14:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lutz Major
Can you post your fit for that 36k EHP Hulk? Would be interested in it. I've seen a maxed 30k but 36k?!?
Depends what kind of gang effects (if any) you include, and optional implants on the Hulk pilot itself, I guess.
It would be highly unusual (but not impossible) to have a +15% raw HP and an additional (stack-nerfable) -25%ish resists bonus to both shield and armor just from gang effects, for instance.
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.25 14:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
Know of something that will drop a hulk in high sec space when it has 36k EHP? If so please enlighten me...
I've not seen anywhere close to 36k EHP, but this is what I use. With my Orca running a Shield Harmonizing link it tops-out at 28,470 (I recently started using a CN EM amp though so 29,281).
I know it is possible to get a better EFT omni number, but at the expense of a lower mostly-EM number (like from EMP ammo).
[Hulk, Hisec]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Invulnerability Field II
Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Kernite Mining Crystal II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.25 15:24:00 -
[17]
Well, if you downgrade to T1 stripminers and have a blatant disregard for the amount of ISK you pour into the fit, a few more options become possible even before gang bonuses (PG implant + MAPC allows you to fit a MSE-II, CN invuls, T2 extender rigs, KVA implant for extra shield, DC-II).
Highly impractical, but possible to bring your "no gang bonus" lowest resist EHP that way to almost 40k (3x CN invul, 39686 EM, 46+k uniform).
With no other bonuses except the +10% armor/shield a halfway decent commander would have, that becomes 42863 EM (lowest) and 50+k uniform.
Nobody in his right mind would fly that for mining though.
It's an insanely ganktractive loot jackpot and the mining yield is not good anyway.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.05.25 15:53:00 -
[18]
Luckily, someone has done all the math and research for you:
http://www.lsjv-eve.com/guide/
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Dekiri
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Posted - 2011.05.26 08:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Apex Bex
If you intend to mine a lot in a safe environment then yes, a Hulk is worth it. The best way to increase yield on a Hulk is to mine with a well skilled Orca pilot and to train Exhumers to the highest level. Furthermore, using tech II ore specific mining crystals will improve your yield even further, if you haven't already done that.
The cost of t2 crystals will not work out with the extra yield. You will have more profit using t1 strips.
My dad can beat up your dad! |
Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.05.26 13:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Velicitia on 26/05/2011 13:33:35
Originally by: Dekiri
Originally by: Apex Bex
If you intend to mine a lot in a safe environment then yes, a Hulk is worth it. The best way to increase yield on a Hulk is to mine with a well skilled Orca pilot and to train Exhumers to the highest level. Furthermore, using tech II ore specific mining crystals will improve your yield even further, if you haven't already done that.
The cost of t2 crystals will not work out with the extra yield. You will have more profit using t1 strips.
Solo mining (veld... because I have the numbers)
Hulk with T1 strips -- 1392 m3 per minute. approx 8.05m isk/hour income
Hulk with T2 strips/crystals -- 1705 m3 per min. approx 9.86m isk/hour income
T2 crystals (well, veld anyway) are like 50k on the market. They last approx 10 hours. 3 * 50k/10 == 15k per hour "cost" to using the veld crystals, leaving you with 9.845m/hour earnings (vs 8.05 for T1 strips).
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Skorpynekomimi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.26 15:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dekiri
Originally by: Apex Bex
If you intend to mine a lot in a safe environment then yes, a Hulk is worth it. The best way to increase yield on a Hulk is to mine with a well skilled Orca pilot and to train Exhumers to the highest level. Furthermore, using tech II ore specific mining crystals will improve your yield even further, if you haven't already done that.
The cost of t2 crystals will not work out with the extra yield. You will have more profit using t1 strips.
No. The T2 strips and crystals improve BASE yield. Before the % gains from skill. Mining, Astrogeology, ship bonuses, MLUs, implants. They all improve as a percentage of the base yield. They will pay for themselves.
I'm not sure about mining implants paying for themselves, but I'm not too worried about that. I bought two, installed one, and hauled the other to a trade hub where I sold it at double the price I paid for it and STILL undercut the lowest sell in the station. It paid for itself just on the return trip.
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