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Wolf vs. Jaguar SOLO PVP Null sec

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Junaiah	Posted - 2011.05.25 20:39:00 - [1] Good Day to all, I'm really looking for opinions and preferences from the community on which ship is better suited for SOLO PVP in null sec: Wolf or Jaguar? Basically, I'm interested in moving around system to system looking for targets of opportunity that I will be engaging alone specifically in null sec space. Which ship fits better for this purpose? Any and all comments are welcome.
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Junaiah SOLO PVP in null sec lol
Myrdraeus Keaunt Minmatar Chaos Delivery Systems	Posted - 2011.05.25 21:27:00 - [3] I do all my 0.0 Solo PvP in my trusty Reaper.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2011.05.25 22:59:00 - [4] my 0.02 isk In my experience, the jag is better. Granted, this very much depends on how you fit it. The jag can go armor tank and maximize ewar, or it can go shield tank and maximize dps. I prefer the ewar options, but that's not the standard fit. The wolf does great damage, but its fairly limited by only 2 midslots....
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.26 10:50:00 - [5] I fly both regularly but I think the Wolf is my favourite of the two. Its ability to deliver massive amounts of DPS to bear throughout scrambler range just makes it king for me. [Wolf, MWD 200s] 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Gyrostabilizer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Small Projectile Burst Aerator II Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I This fit does 316 DPS with my skills and implants. More than enough to take out any frigate and destroyer-sized targets. The armour repairer lets you patch up between fights and the metastasis rig helps limit tracking problems. On that note, your biggest concern is lack of tracking but realistically only afterburner fit ships have a chance of getting under your guns. I do like the Jaguar as well and use it for shallow roaming and NPC null sec. Numbers are usually lower in these areas so I go for an afterburner fit that lets me dictate range against pretty much anything that I meet, including dual-prop Dramiels. [Jaguar, AB Roamer] 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [Empty High slot] X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 1MN Afterburner II Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Small Projectile Burst Aerator II This fit does 259 DPS (again with my skills and implants). If you downgrade to 150 mm autocannons then you can fit an MWD instead of the afterburner. The key things to consider when soloing in nullsec are that you need at least 200 DPS in order to be able to kill things quickly and that if you are roaming more than a few jumps from an NPC station you need either a passive tank (ie Jaguar's shields) or a repairer so that you can patch up. Whether you go for an afterbuner or MWD depends on how many people you are expecting to face. If you think you'll mostly be fighting other soloers then the afterburner will give you the advantage but if you're looking to fight larger gangs then you will want the mobility of the MWD to allow you to spread people out and pick of targets. Don't listen to people who tell you that you can't solo in null sec. It is perfectly possible but you must be prepared to die often. Good luck! PS - For reference here is my combat record in the Wolf and Jaguar.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker Vicious OuTLaW	Posted - 2011.05.26 11:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Calfis Originally by: Junaiah SOLO PVP in null sec lol There are "solo" people in 0.0(at least in npc space) you will have to drop them pretty quickly before help comes + anyone that will engage your pvp ship will most likely be in a vaga or a cane. However, 95%of them will be bait and I recommend you go to FW for 1v1s. There are a fair amount of people that will engage you 1v1 without the intent of baiting. I've gotten almost all my 1v1 in FW. Still, that doesn't mean you won't get blobbed and die in a fire.
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.26 14:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Herrring Still, that doesn't mean you won't get blobbed and die in a fire. Exactly. Also Wensley: good luck and come back soon bro.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2011.05.26 16:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Wensley PS - For reference here is my combat record in the Wolf and Jaguar. Wensley has an impressive record, and has proven his setups work well..... I too solo in null-sec quite a bit... but I typically have two differences in my loadouts: 1.) a NOS on active (and most passive) tanked ships.... it allows me to kill vagas and canes that would normally nuet you off. 2.) I use 150's rather than 200mm guns, even though I can fit 200's. 200's have a small bonus in damage for a bigger loss in tracking. This means they leave a vulnerability spot where close orbiting frigates can avoid the 200's dps... This is my favorite jag loadout... Jag, but its very unconventional... Note: you can easily fit 200's on this loadout, but I prefer 150's... I typically don't fly the wolf, so perhaps my perspective on the ships are skewed....
Morepew Lesque Rage Cats Inc	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:02:00 - [9] I'm itching to give this a try [Rifter, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 400mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Morepew Lesque I'm itching to give this a try [Rifter, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 400mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Likely the most tank I've seen on a dual prop Rifter but still has the issue of fighting anything with a web.

Morepew Lesque Rage Cats Inc	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Mutnin Likely the most tank I've seen on a dual prop Rifter but still has the issue of fighting anything with a web. that's what you'd think, but I've had alot of success in the past with a sheild tanked mwd rifter killing bombers/inties. Can't imagine having an AB will hurt.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.05.26 20:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Morepew Lesque Originally by: Mutnin Likely the most tank I've seen on a dual prop Rifter but still has the issue of fighting anything with a web. that's what you'd think, but I've had alot of success in the past with a sheild tanked mwd rifter killing bombers/inties. Can't imagine having an AB will hurt. Well bombers are paper dps and would die even to a bantam if it got tackle on one. MWD ceptors are the same, they depend on speed range to do the tanking, but a shield tanked MWD rifter is gonna be a lot faster & more agile than a 400mm plate Rifter with 2 armor rigs. Even a good pilot in an AB rifter with web can catch ceptor pilots off guard.
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.27 08:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Wensley on 27/05/2011 08:40:29 Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite Originally by: Wensley PS - For reference here is my combat record in the Wolf and Jaguar. Wensley has an impressive record, and has proven his setups work well..... I too solo in null-sec quite a bit... but I typically have two differences in my loadouts: 1.) a NOS on active (and most passive) tanked ships.... it allows me to kill vagas and canes that would normally nuet you off. 2.) I use 150's rather than 200mm guns, even though I can fit 200's. 200's have a small bonus in damage for a bigger loss in tracking. This means they leave a vulnerability spot where close orbiting frigates can avoid the 200's dps... This is my favorite jag loadout... Jag, but its very unconventional... Note: you can easily fit 200's on this loadout, but I prefer 150's... I typically don't fly the wolf, so perhaps my perspective on the ships are skewed.... Dat Jag! Anyway, regarding turret size, you make a very good point and I would probably advise people getting used to these ships to go for 150 mm or even 125 mm on the Wolf. Hit quality is everything because your DPS numbers don't matter if you can't get them on target. The key thing to learn is not to orbit other frigates. You want to use keep at range or manual piloting to minimise transversal and apply your DPS as quickly as possible. Nosferatu is a good point and does add a lot of flexibility. I generally look for other frigates/destroyers and rely on my DPS to punch through their tank quickly but in a drawn out fight you will definitely benefit from fitting a nosferatu. Plus, as you say, it lets you hold people down under capacitor pressure. If you're not going to be far from the ability to rep yourself then this fit could be a lot of fun: [Wolf, madmaxWolfie copy] 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [Empty High slot] Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Projectile Burst Aerator II Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Excellent EHP, great range, and god-like tracking. Edit: Forgot to say, there is a lot of flexibility in fitting styles on these two ships. Find a good starting fit and go out and fly it, kill a few guys and lose a few ships. Then look back on your experiences and also the combat logs and decide how you could improve it. Do you need more tracking? More range? More EHP? More raw DPS? Iterate on your fit and go out again.
Eihnlazer	Posted - 2011.05.27 11:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Eihnlazer on 27/05/2011 11:11:15 I wish people would stop using EMP to inflate their DPS. It's crap ammo and you should never acctually be using it in game. Mabey if everyone suddenly decides to not cover their EMP resists one day it'll be good, but phased plasma and barrage are the only ammo's you'll ever need and you should eft with them in to get your real dps numbers. EDIT: oh and on the topic; wolf is a beast but yes jag is definately more flexible.
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker Vicious OuTLaW	Posted - 2011.05.27 11:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Eihnlazer Edited by: Eihnlazer on 27/05/2011 11:11:15 I wish people would stop using EMP to inflate their DPS. It's crap ammo and you should never acctually be using it in game. Mabey if everyone suddenly decides to not cover their EMP resists one day it'll be good, but phased plasma and barrage are the only ammo's you'll ever need and you should eft with them in to get your real dps numbers. EDIT: oh and on the topic; wolf is a beast but yes jag is definately more flexible. How is using EMP inflate dps? PP and fusion both do the same amount of dps as EMP, and most people just use emp for fittings because its at the top of the list on eft.
TaluxA	Posted - 2011.05.27 13:41:00 - [16] EMP, phased plasma and fusion all do the same amount of dps. They just differ in the damage types. EMP is fine for working out a fitting in eft.
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.27 14:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Eihnlazer Edited by: Eihnlazer on 27/05/2011 11:11:15 I wish people would stop using EMP to inflate their DPS. It's crap ammo and you should never acctually be using it in game. Mabey if everyone suddenly decides to not cover their EMP resists one day it'll be good, but phased plasma and barrage are the only ammo's you'll ever need and you should eft with them in to get your real dps numbers. Oh, god, really? Really?! EMP, phased plasma, and fusion all the do the same base damage. It is perfectly valid, nay best, to use these as your values for EFT damage. They also don't suffer from tracking penalties like Barrage and spit Hail so you stand the best chance of doing your EFT damage numbers. EMP is the best ammo type for shooting most T1 shield tankers (the majority of which also block their thermal hole if they block any), T2 Gallente that have patched their explosive hole, T2 Amarr that have patched their thermal hole. Fusion is the best ammo for shooting armour tankers, T2 Minmatar who have patched their kinetic hole, and T2 Caldari who have patched their EMP hole. In the case of the T2 Minmatar it is often better to load Barrage if you can't be sure of dictating range but fusion out damages it up close. Phased plasma is a very nice utility ammunition that will do good damage against pretty much all targets (except T2 Gallente and Caldari) and is a solid default load for any roaming PvPer. Barrage is good for kiting at long range but I would say that on high DPS brawler fits like these it will be very rare when you come across a situation where it serves you better than fusion would. You might want to actually go and learn something about projectile ammo before making such comments again...
Vincenzo Venius Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.05.27 18:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Eihnlazer Edited by: Eihnlazer on 27/05/2011 11:11:15 I wish people would stop using EMP to inflate their DPS. It's crap ammo and you should never acctually be using it in game. Mabey if everyone suddenly decides to not cover their EMP resists one day it'll be good, but phased plasma and barrage are the only ammo's you'll ever need and you should eft with them in to get your real dps numbers. EDIT: oh and on the topic; wolf is a beast but yes jag is definately more flexible. Someone hasn't looked @ ammo stats in like 2 years maybe?
pushdogg Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2011.05.28 06:20:00 - [19] Edited by: pushdogg on 28/05/2011 06:25:11 So.....have things changed so drastically that we no longer put offlined mods in utility highs as heatsinks?......and the wolf and the jag are very different animals.....the wolf is a high dps power house, one that is used more in gangs to catch pods.....but best used in gangs. The jag is tanky enough to let low dps interceptors plink away for hours with no success. Solo the jag is always going to be the best....a t2 shield resist tank for minnies is the best asset, the vaga feels remarkably familiar at this point. With a wolf anyone shooting barrage is going to win your dogfight if a great degree of skill isn't involved.....hence jag wins everytime. Even a large plate goes down to t1 resists on armor. Its been a while since I've actually checked the speeds of the two...but I'm fairly certain the jag is even faster. It takes a decent frig pilot to take down a jag solo(1v1). With all that in mind....the jag is worth the time and isk to be good at. P.S. I've had 4 summer shandys, the spelling might be whack. EDIT: the wolf is very fun to pilot, but null-sec confidence?...solo.....goes to the jag. best sig ever:) Originally by: Soul Harvestor You're an idiot.
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.29 00:05:00 - [20] Originally by: pushdogg Edited by: pushdogg on 28/05/2011 06:25:11 So.....have things changed so drastically that we no longer put offlined mods in utility highs as heatsinks? Did you get a bulk discount on full-stops? Anyway, it turns out that an empty slot is a better heat sink than an offline module and that heat does not wrap around the rack despite what CCP have lead us to believe.

gonesideways	Posted - 2011.05.29 13:11:00 - [21] link please. i still use a heatsink, im my experience it works well.
12three	Posted - 2011.05.29 19:11:00 - [22] Originally by: gonesideways link please. i still use a heatsink, im my experience it works well. Harder Better Faster Stronger
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.30 17:28:00 - [23] Originally by: 12three Originally by: gonesideways link please. i still use a heatsink, im my experience it works well. Harder Better Faster Stronger This discussion on Failheap Challenge has more detail.
pushdogg Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2011.05.30 18:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Wensley Originally by: pushdogg Edited by: pushdogg on 28/05/2011 06:25:11 So.....have things changed so drastically that we no longer put offlined mods in utility highs as heatsinks? Did you get a bulk discount on full-stops? Anyway, it turns out that an empty slot is a better heat sink than an offline module and that heat does not wrap around the rack despite what CCP have lead us to believe. What exactly are you implying? best sig ever:) Originally by: Soul Harvestor You're an idiot.
Miura Bull Minmatar Black Rebel Rifter Club	Posted - 2011.05.31 13:02:00 - [25] Ooh nice Wolfy fits, Wens. Also .............. aaahhh, what is this I don't even ....... Both ships are fantastic little monsters for null-sec solo roaming. Usually the ones who dismiss that there is any form of null-sec solo roaming to be had are the ones usually on the end of a Wolf or Jag mauling, usually whilst they make their way to their gang for some hot F key action. MB.
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.05.31 13:04:00 - [26] dual prop dramiel is the answer accept no substitutes
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:02:00 - [27] Dual MSE II / AB Jag is my fav solo ship. It's a little anemic on the DPS, but your passive tank is as tough as most active tanks, and capfree to boot. 1350 m/s unscrammable GTFO ability and 15k-EHP. You can run if the ship was bait
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Dual MSE II / AB Jag is my fav solo ship. It's a little anemic on the DPS, but your passive tank is as tough as most active tanks, and capfree to boot. 1350 m/s unscrammable GTFO ability and 15k-EHP. You can run if the ship was bait You can squeeze 213 DPS out of it with a T2 damage rig and some inexpensive implants so not that anaemic. Not sure what you're doing to get 15k EHP out of it, though. @Miura: Hey, its my improved version :P @pushdogg: Just that you used ten ellipsises in one post, most with more than three full stops.
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:17:00 - [29] Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 01/06/2011 11:24:17 Originally by: Wensley Not sure what you're doing to get 15k EHP out of it, though [Jaguar, MSE Tank] Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] (heatsink) 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Core Defence Field Extender I 15k EHP / 63dps tank / 154dps Implants to make it hit harder help. I've used this to great effect.
Wensley Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 01/06/2011 11:24:17 Originally by: Wensley Not sure what you're doing to get 15k EHP out of it, though [Jaguar, MSE Tank] Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] (heatsink) 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Core Defence Field Extender I 15k EHP / 63dps tank / 154dps Implants to make it hit harder help. I've used this to great effect. Ah, CDFEs, I was using T2 resist rigs on my max tank version and completely forgot about extenders. Playing around a bit, fitting a kinetic rig gives you more tank against blasters, Caldari ships in general, and anyone using Barrage. Against fusion and lasers the two CDFEs are better. I'd be tempted to say that for the slight EHP hit you take, filling the kinetic hole is worth it but I guess it depends what you find yourself fighting most of the time.



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