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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2011.05.31 13:55:00 - [1] EVE Online: Incursion 1.5 brought a number of backend changes to both BPOs and BPCs. CCP Explorer's newest dev blog gives us the scoop. Read all about it here. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Kidzukurenai Datael Imperial Collective Celestial Shadows	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:06:00 - [2] Edited by: Kidzukurenai Datael on 31/05/2011 14:10:39 Edited by: Kidzukurenai Datael on 31/05/2011 14:10:06 First. So when can see the difference in killmails..? Also IBC (only just, though, it seems! )

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Chribba on 31/05/2011 14:16:43 \o/ edit/also you know what would be even more awesome when it comes to blueprints... being able to like install more than one at a time. Eg select 10 and it performs the same action for all of them (stacked). Secure 3rd party service \| in-game 'Holy Veldspar' Now /w voice

Gun Hog Caldari APEX ARDENT COALITION C0NVICTED	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:19:00 - [4] The tech blogs are always my favorite! :D _______________________________________________
Kidzukurenai Datael Imperial Collective Celestial Shadows	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Chribba being able to like install more than one at a time. Eg select 10 and it performs the same action for all of them (stacked). That would make my day
Tasjesdief	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:19:00 - [6] nice job! Is is going to be possible to see the difference when using a cargo scanner?
Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:21:00 - [7] Its an elegant, if not entirely perfect, solution. I like it. Originally by: Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
kKayron Jarvis Caldari Gray Rogue Squadron STRAG3S.INC	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:22:00 - [8] Quote: And now you know how. And we thank you for doing it. It is good how long it tack to do it.
Dacil Arandur Habitual Euthanasia	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:25:00 - [9] This is a great change, and I enjoy seeing all the steps that went into making it happen. Thank you very much!
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Kara Sharalien Its an elegant, if not entirely perfect, solution. I like it. The story of all Computer Science....
Sino Sarn Sick Tight Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:33:00 - [11] This seems pretty complicated. Though the game is better for it. In fact, I bet it would have been a whole lot easier to nerf scaps and would make the game alot more fun for many more people.
Lore Varan Caltech Shipyards	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:36:00 - [12] Thanks for all your hard work. Makes our ( Industrialists ) lives a lot easier. Much appriciated.
Meissa Anunthiel	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:40:00 - [13] Many thanks to you and the teams involved Explorer. I now found where a few of my BPOs were hidden in my BPC containers. :-) ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2011.05.31 14:44:00 - [14] Edited by: Gnulpie on 31/05/2011 14:44:38 AWESOME!!! I mean, yay for the BPO and BPC (though the BPC icons look like they were done in 5 minutes by some cheap gone, something more spiffy would have been certainly better ) distinction! But even more YAAAY for telling us how it all works. Writing these devblogs is surely serious work and consumes time. But they are sooooooo worth it. Thank you!
Daedalus II Helios Research	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:12:00 - [15] Given all those extra ids you got from the 64 bit conversion, wouldn't it have been easiest to just give the blueprint copies their very own item ids? Given, you would have to figure out which item id a copy should have given an original with a different id, but this must be easy to add as an attribute to the original? This would then work universally in cargo holds, in hangars and in the LP store. ___________ Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research!
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:17:00 - [16] that was actually quite complex and time consuming just to be able to tell originals from copies apart. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Uncanny Valley	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:17:00 - [17] Thank you CCP! Greatest change ever! Now I can kill off the numerous containers I use to split everything. Speaking of which, can we get a container that ONLY holds blueprints and is really tiny? Like a blueprint wallet or somesuch? Having so many BPOs and BPCs makes them impossible to transport from place to place. I keep running into the item count cap FAR before I hit the cargohold capacity, and you cant load expanded tiny containers into haulers anymore.
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:28:00 - [18] Reads tech blog... Mind = Blown --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
T'Senthor	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:38:00 - [19] Ok, so. Now that you got this far. Make use of some more of these 30 bits you got available to play with and store the ME and PE values in there so that the client is easily able to show them as sortable columns in the item windows and as overlays when just displaying the large icons.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:39:00 - [20] \o/ Many thanks to those who helped make this possible.
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Grimpak that was actually quite complex and time consuming just to be able to tell originals from copies apart. No wonder they didn't want to do it. Thank you though. I will say I will be sending CCP the bill for my first PTSD therapy session after the bright flash of light that was generated after I opened my alt's 'BPC' hanger after the change. Great googley-moogely. Bright.
Wollari Phoenix Industries Saints Amongst Sinners	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:50:00 - [22] Will this singleton flag change (1/2) be readable via API aswell? That would help lots of people with managing their industry and assets externally. Haven't checked the API yet.
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.05.31 15:50:00 - [23] when are you a*sholes going to fix lag?!
Drakarian Viziam	Posted - 2011.05.31 16:18:00 - [24] Sounds like this fix was just a big hack done to save some dev time. Not a good thing.
Valrandir Gallente Distant Thunder Perihelion Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.31 16:35:00 - [25] I very much like this kind of devblog. This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.05.31 16:37:00 - [26] Much as I love this change, this is absolutely staggering to me. It took you eight years to figure out how to use negative numbers? I mean, it's not like this is really an obscure thing - as soon as I read that you had an Singleton database column, I knew exactly what the fix was, and my programming experience consists of a couple classes I squeaked by in undergrad. You didn't even use the 64-bit typeIDs, or any of the other difficult and recent stuff. You just deleted a worthless column, did an obvious extension of it, and then did some work to integrate it all. That last step probably ate a lot of man-hours, but nonetheless the process still completely belies all the stuff you've been saying since I started this game about how hard it was. I know that you guys aren't the garage coders from 2001 that caused these problems in the first place, so I'm not blaming you for absurdities like the singleton column. And I know that the scut work to get a fix like this implemented can take quite a while. But why did you play it off like it was a technically challenging problem? It's the four years of dev comments that annoy me most here.
Elsa Nietchize	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:21:00 - [27] Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 31/05/2011 17:22:41 Quote: So, saving DB space and bandwidth, these two got merged into an integer 'quantity' column with the new semantic that negative quantities implied a singleton. We just mass-updated the inventory table turning all 'singleton==1' items into 'quantity=-1'. So the quantity value is an integer... And the maximum value of an integer is 2,147,483,646(signed) so what happens if i have a stack of ammo greater than this value?
Somerset Mahm Somer's Omnibus Exploration and Reclamation Cognitive Distortion	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Elsa Nietchize Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 31/05/2011 17:22:41 Quote: So, saving DB space and bandwidth, these two got merged into an integer 'quantity' column with the new semantic that negative quantities implied a singleton. We just mass-updated the inventory table turning all 'singleton==1' items into 'quantity=-1'. So the quantity value is an integer... And the maximum value of an integer is 2,147,483,646(signed) so what happens if i have a stack of ammo greater than this value? I assume you've asked this because you've never tried. I, on the other hand, have lots of trit lying around and have tried. The game doesn't let you stack more than maxint items. --- SOMER Lotteries SOMER Blink - new! SOMER Escrow Services
Baneken Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:53:00 - [29] Edited by: Baneken on 31/05/2011 17:53:43 Originally by: Elsa Nietchize Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 31/05/2011 17:22:41 Quote: So, saving DB space and bandwidth, these two got merged into an integer 'quantity' column with the new semantic that negative quantities implied a singleton. We just mass-updated the inventory table turning all 'singleton==1' items into 'quantity=-1'. So the quantity value is an integer... And the maximum value of an integer is 2,147,483,646(signed) so what happens if i have a stack of ammo greater than this value? Nothing the game automatically sizes the stack in two stacks of which one contains 2,147,483,646 units and the second one everything beyond that of the original stack. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Elzon1 Caldari Shadow Boys Corp White Angels.	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:55:00 - [30] Edited by: Elzon1 on 31/05/2011 17:56:06 Originally by: fgft Athonille when are you a*sholes going to fix lag?! During the fall with time dilation. Great blog... its missing graph bacon though So, since it seems there is the capability... when are we going to be able to modify our internal ship hulls and crew to sell in our incarna store fronts? Wish there were some secret modules and ships out there to sell through the storefronts. Imagine the day that moon goo is just as unprofitable as tech 1 manufacturing and the way you make your REAL isk is to dig up those secret files and artifacts and apply them to your understanding of various module and ship hulls in order to make something truly potent Make sure there is lots of lore and intuitive thinking involved to avoid the push button recieve bacon situations we always get with eve I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD
Ms Freak Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.31 17:56:00 - [31] Question: If you had a "typeId" column (assuming this makes an DBRow a Blueprint or a Ship or a Gun (etc)) - Why not just add another type "BLUEPRINT_COPY" and reference that? I obviously missed something in the dev blog, which was very interesting btw, and was wondering why the change took so many changes and effort?
SokoleOko Minmatar D00M.	Posted - 2011.05.31 18:06:00 - [32] Edited by: SokoleOko on 31/05/2011 18:05:55 Quality tech p0rn :) Personally I have no clue about programming and DBs, but I've enjoyed reading that blog... not to mention, understand it :)
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.05.31 18:26:00 - [33] So now when you have a sexy way to to the differentiation on the DB, maybe use that lookup to do one more thing than just changing the icon, have it append the item description text with either " - copy" or " - original" and it would be even better as we will get even sexier killmails then (and suicide gankers won't end up killing innocent people flying around with T2 BPC's).
Arrius Okaski	Posted - 2011.05.31 18:58:00 - [34] From the Blog post it sounds like the definitions of the blueprint copies were related to the original. (Not the instances of copies) Could you have created the blueprint copies as their own item type instead of adding a relational link to the definition of the originals? Have I misunderstood the nature of the relationship between the copies and originals? Would be cool to get a response :)
Lirinas	Posted - 2011.05.31 19:33:00 - [35] While this is a welcome change, I hope that this is also a precursor to future improvements to industry. Industry as a whole has changed very little in EVE over the course of it's existence. Some numbers tweaked here, some patchwork systems introduced there, but that's about it. The part of me that focuses mostly on Industry has grown rather bored with Industry as a whole. I keep hoping to see an overhaul to the whole Industry system, something to shake things up a bit. Will something like this ever happen?
Enthral	Posted - 2011.05.31 19:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Elsa Nietchize Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 31/05/2011 17:22:41 Quote: So, saving DB space and bandwidth, these two got merged into an integer 'quantity' column with the new semantic that negative quantities implied a singleton. We just mass-updated the inventory table turning all 'singleton==1' items into 'quantity=-1'. So the quantity value is an integer... And the maximum value of an integer is 2,147,483,646(signed) so what happens if i have a stack of ammo greater than this value? Max size of a 64-bit integer in SQL Server (which I believe they are using) is (signed) 9,223,372,036,854,775,807. CCP may be capping the max size of a stack to something else, but the database isn't the limiting factor. To put that number into perspective, if you added one item to your stack every thousandth of a second, it would take you 106.8 billion YEARS to reach the limit. The Sun only has about 5.4 billion years left in its life, and the entire universe is thought to be around 13.75 billion years old. I do have a question for the developers. Have you done any performance metrics on your change? It has been my experience, that using a virtual column isn't always faster than just doing a join. This is because that function can be called on every row in the table. You might not see a performance issue on your test servers, but as soon as you scale it up to tranquility...
Celebris Nexterra Gallente Lowsec Static	Posted - 2011.05.31 20:25:00 - [37] This devblog was freakin TIGHT. Thanks for the work in fixing such an annoying reality, and the work in writing a blog about it!! o7
yani dumyat Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2011.05.31 20:37:00 - [38] Thank You, a much much appreciated change.
Nova Lux Gallente TalCorp Enterprises TalCorp United Federation	Posted - 2011.05.31 22:39:00 - [39] I enjoy these tech blogs, as always: keep them coming.
Glyken Touchon Gallente Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Arrius Okaski From the Blog post it sounds like the definitions of the blueprint copies were related to the original. (Not the instances of copies) Could you have created the blueprint copies as their own item type instead of adding a relational link to the definition of the originals? Have I misunderstood the nature of the relationship between the copies and originals? Would be cool to get a response :) IIRC, one of the reasons they didn't just duplicate all the BPOs and rename them BPCs was that the manufacturing/refining streams could only cope with 1xBP<->1xItem, and not 2xBP<->1xItem ______ Originally by: CCP Veritas In other words, I believe Dogma is doing stupid things, and I intend to beat the stupid out of it before considering giving it rocket boots.
Luke S Zeta Corp.	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:38:00 - [41] so in other words: our old database system couldn't handle the types of blueprints because it would have filled it up. Now that we have more room for items IDs we can have different types of the same items. I get that. Trying to understand what took a bit of time to change over the new system. ---

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Daedalus II Given all those extra ids you got from the 64 bit conversion, wouldn't it have been easiest to just give the blueprint copies their very own item ids? Given, you would have to figure out which item id a copy should have given an original with a different id, but this must be easy to add as an attribute to the original? This would then work universally in cargo holds, in hangars and in the LP store. Each individual blueprint copy already had its own item ID, just like any other item in the game. It's not the item ID that defines an item but rather the type ID. Blueprint originals and blueprint copies have the same type ID, which is linked to the type ID of the item they produce. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Havak Kouvo	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:51:00 - [43] It stories like these that make me realize why I have to take so many math classes.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.05.31 23:55:00 - [44] Originally by: fgft Athonille when are you a*sholes going to fix lag?! We are drafting a dev blog on the latest optimisations we made. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Ms Freak Question: If you had a "typeId" column (assuming this makes an DBRow a Blueprint or a Ship or a Gun (etc)) - Why not just add another type "BLUEPRINT_COPY" and reference that? I obviously missed something in the dev blog, which was very interesting btw, and was wondering why the change took so many changes and effort? Having BPOs and BPCs being different types is another route we could have taken. We would have had to introduce special casing into the content authoring system so when authoring blueprints the system would behind the scenes create two different types and copy all attributes on both. The solution we selected instead has the added benefit of being very general: Any kind of context specific singleton information can be encoded with the system; BPOs vs. BPCs is just one example of such a usage. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Arrius Okaski From the Blog post it sounds like the definitions of the blueprint copies were related to the original. (Not the instances of copies) Could you have created the blueprint copies as their own item type instead of adding a relational link to the definition of the originals? Have I misunderstood the nature of the relationship between the copies and originals? Would be cool to get a response :) See here. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Enthral Originally by: Elsa Nietchize Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 31/05/2011 17:22:41 Quote: So, saving DB space and bandwidth, these two got merged into an integer 'quantity' column with the new semantic that negative quantities implied a singleton. We just mass-updated the inventory table turning all 'singleton==1' items into 'quantity=-1'. So the quantity value is an integer... And the maximum value of an integer is 2,147,483,646(signed) so what happens if i have a stack of ammo greater than this value? Max size of a 64-bit integer in SQL Server (which I believe they are using) is (signed) 9,223,372,036,854,775,807. CCP may be capping the max size of a stack to something else, but the database isn't the limiting factor. To put that number into perspective, if you added one item to your stack every thousandth of a second, it would take you 106.8 billion YEARS to reach the limit. The Sun only has about 5.4 billion years left in its life, and the entire universe is thought to be around 13.75 billion years old. I do have a question for the developers. Have you done any performance metrics on your change? It has been my experience, that using a virtual column isn't always faster than just doing a join. This is because that function can be called on every row in the table. You might not see a performance issue on your test servers, but as soon as you scale it up to tranquility... The max stack size is dictated by the 32 bit integer in Python. Performance metrics for the underlying framework change, yes we have them here. Look for the "Inventory Setification" part. This scales incredibly well since the virtual column code is executed by the client, not the cluster. The DB and the server just hand the data off to the client and the client takes care of calculating the value of the virtual column when the UI needs to know what value it contains. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Patyrn Runner	Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 - [48] Edited by: Patyrn Runner on 01/06/2011 00:52:56 Edit: RTFA and my question was answered...
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.01 06:38:00 - [49] a delivery? well done. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Ms Freak Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.01 07:49:00 - [50] Edited by: Ms Freak on 01/06/2011 07:49:59 Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Ms Freak Question: If you had a "typeId" column (assuming this makes an DBRow a Blueprint or a Ship or a Gun (etc)) - Why not just add another type "BLUEPRINT_COPY" and reference that? I obviously missed something in the dev blog, which was very interesting btw, and was wondering why the change took so many changes and effort? Having BPOs and BPCs being different types is another route we could have taken. We would have had to introduce special casing into the content authoring system so when authoring blueprints the system would behind the scenes create two different types and copy all attributes on both. The solution we selected instead has the added benefit of being very general: Any kind of context specific singleton information can be encoded with the system; BPOs vs. BPCs is just one example of such a usage. Ok so the choice was do something to retain the "BLUEPRINT" type and diffreniate using another method which allows you to retain the generic show info etc OR add the second type then cater for it specifically. Nice! And thanks for the reply - most informative.
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:20:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Ms Freak Question: If you had a "typeId" column (assuming this makes an DBRow a Blueprint or a Ship or a Gun (etc)) - Why not just add another type "BLUEPRINT_COPY" and reference that? I obviously missed something in the dev blog, which was very interesting btw, and was wondering why the change took so many changes and effort? Having BPOs and BPCs being different types is another route we could have taken. We would have had to introduce special casing into the content authoring system so when authoring blueprints the system would behind the scenes create two different types and copy all attributes on both. The solution we selected instead has the added benefit of being very general: Any kind of context specific singleton information can be encoded with the system; BPOs vs. BPCs is just one example of such a usage. I'd have gone the differing type ID route. Having special case code ran depending on metadata encoded in a generic column gets ugly the more such special cases you have. Am I correct in assuming this also effects the API? Still, thanks for making this possible. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.01 08:54:00 - [52] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 01/06/2011 08:55:32 Originally by: Wollari Will this singleton flag change (1/2) be readable via API aswell? That would help lots of people with managing their industry and assets externally. Haven't checked the API yet. As we speak the API simply casts any negative quantity into 1 to avoid screwing with any summing of quantities. When I saw this post yesterday I created a defect on the new API developer that replaced me but I cannot promise when he'll get to that. But he's busy enough with development so I'm posting (also I love posting).. so soonÖ? I'm not sure how Elerhino (The new API developer.. who is also the old one that I replaced. We're a tag team.) will go about solving this, but I doubt he'll actually change the quantity from displaying 1 unit for any singleton as it will be completely incompatible with any application using the current form of the call. But we're aware of the need for the actual quantity, and the need to keep legacy app arithmetic functioning. ~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer If anything in this post was informative or could be considered as 'good news' to you - chances are you've misread it.

Grady Eltoren Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Many thanks to you and the teams involved Explorer. I now found where a few of my BPOs were hidden in my BPC containers. :-) Ha Ha - same here. Sorry it took so long for you guys to implement but it was well needed in game. Thanks. I especially appreciate the keeping of tags on the items like faction, t2, etc. Aviation Professionals for EVE (APEVE)
Lutz Major	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:02:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 01/06/2011 08:55:32 Originally by: Wollari Will this singleton flag change (1/2) be readable via API aswell? That would help lots of people with managing their industry and assets externally. Haven't checked the API yet. As we speak the API simply casts any negative quantity into 1 to avoid screwing with any summing of quantities. When I saw this post yesterday I created a defect on the new API developer that replaced me but I cannot promise when he'll get to that. But he's busy enough with development so I'm posting (also I love posting).. so soonÖ? I'm not sure how Elerhino (The new API developer.. who is also the old one that I replaced. We're a tag team.) will go about solving this, but I doubt he'll actually change the quantity from displaying 1 unit for any singleton as it will be completely incompatible with any application using the current form of the call. But we're aware of the need for the actual quantity, and the need to keep legacy app arithmetic functioning. How about introducing a complete new blueprint API? BlueprintAssetList.xml.aspx for example? With just a list of itemIDs, typeIDs, MEs, PEs, run levels and a flag for isCopy? (the flag could be replaced by run level > 0?!?). Then you don't have to mess with the old asset list, which would still indicate where the blueprint location is.
Pierced Brosmen Priory Of The Lemon	Posted - 2011.06.01 13:57:00 - [55] Awesome blog, and a very welcome feature when it was put on TQ. Now, with the CarbonUI having been deployed to TQ and the possibilities that introduces, here's a project for you: Make an overlay for all the BPO and BPC icons, that will display the ME-level, PE-level and for BPC's, the remaining runs I understand this can put a lot of unwanted work on the servers, so it could be done with a syncronization solution. So the first time you open a hangar or can with, let's say, more then 10 blueprints in it, the client informs that it's syncronizing and values will be updated when finished, and then makes low-priority calls to the server to fetch the information and storing that information localy (tied to item ID's ofc, and not to the hangar/can so client understands if an item has been moved), so next time you look up the same blueprints, the client just asks the server "what's changed since <insert date and time>?" Just a thought... I'm not a programmer or anything, knowing what workload such an addition would mean. But it would have been an absolutely awesome addition to the game. Especially when you have lots and lots of BPC's and want to continue manufacturing from the ones you last used (to prevent having lots of half-used prints). And not having to do Show Info on all of them to find wich ones they are.
Le Ming	Posted - 2011.06.01 18:45:00 - [56] +1 cake \o/
4N631	Posted - 2011.06.01 22:42:00 - [57] late but still good
SmokinFighter Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.02 00:08:00 - [58] Originally by: Uncanny Valley Thank you CCP! Greatest change ever! Now I can kill off the numerous containers I use to split everything. Speaking of which, can we get a container that ONLY holds blueprints and is really tiny? Like a blueprint wallet or some such? Having so many BPOs and BPCs makes them impossible to transport from place to place. I keep running into the item count cap FAR before I hit the cargo hold capacity, and you cant load expanded tiny containers into haulers anymore. Kinda like a BPO/C Portfolio, come on in the future they have no way of organizing paper work? lol
Klytie Ulloriaq	Posted - 2011.06.02 01:05:00 - [59] Entire EVE community: About ******* time!
Deinococcus Radiodurans	Posted - 2011.06.02 09:57:00 - [60] Nice piece of work and an interesting explanation of what was, under the circumstances, quite an elegant solution! It never ceases to amaze me how you guys manage to plan, implement and roll out changes to a system of this complexity with minimal impact on the users and despite all the legacy code which is ...less than ideal. Cheers,
Malarkey Minmatar Twisted Creations	Posted - 2011.06.02 12:37:00 - [61] As an Industrialist, I have been moaning for years (many years!) about the lack of distinction between BPOs and BPCs. I know I have sold at least one BPO by mistake in the past, thinking it was a BPC. I have never really understood WHY CCP kept saying it was too complicated. I mean, you just change the colour, what's so difficult about that? So, I appreciate the explanation and with it, the understanding. Thank you
Buzzmong Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.02 15:12:00 - [62] I too would like to chime in with a thank you for this change and the work on it. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go!
Serpents smile	Posted - 2011.06.03 08:08:00 - [63] I DON'T LIKE IT!!! BRING BACK THA OLD BPC'S XXX111 /me runs away. Without kidding, nice job took a bit but very much appreciated.
Flesh Slurper Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.04 19:42:00 - [64] Thank you this change makes my life much easier.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.06.04 20:36:00 - [65] You're welcome! Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Kor Kilden	Posted - 2011.06.05 21:57:00 - [66] I typically don't use any of the options to display icons (I prefer the lists, so I can sort by type or name). Can you have the item type column differentiate between blueprrint copy and blueprint original? Sometimes I want to put all originals back in their storage without sorting through a hundred icons. Thanks! Kor Kilden
Somaht Noside	Posted - 2011.06.07 01:01:00 - [67] I may not be in the right place but have one question why is my tengu still flying backwards. I have not used it since the last update which I understood fixed that problem.
gargars	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:01:00 - [68] Try clearing your cache in the Eve client. IIRC that is what they were advising for people with the flying backwards problem. Originally by: Somaht Noside I may not be in the right place but have one question why is my tengu still flying backwards. I have not used it since the last update which I understood fixed that problem.
OfficeSlut	Posted - 2011.06.19 07:02:00 - [69] not that I dont appreciate the change, but they going to fix some of the BPOS' that look just like a bpc, thorn rockets for example, is soo many...what a fail job, er half arsed,,or maybe the libray was empty that day. c'mon
Gainard	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:24:00 - [70] I just stumbled on this dev blog and I must say I apreciate the effort. It reduces my "Show Info" clicks by a magnitude. However, the way you solved it appears to be way to complicated. A basic rule in database programming is you never ever use the same ID for records that do not share ALL properties. Doing so forces you to create all sorts of work arounds and tinkering just to make it work - as you so elaborately explained. It also is a surefire way to generate trouble when you wish to modify the properties or the code again. If, for reasons I don't know, you insist on keeping a shared typeID you could have linked the isCopy property to the itemID - one more boolean column in the item table won't generate that much more traffic. Changes to the code would also have been quite easy to handle. Just my two cents... And I said: Pirates? What pirates would be interested in the few rocks I have mined? 3 Minutes later I was warping back to station - in my egg...
Gainard	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:39:00 - [71] Edited by: Gainard on 21/06/2011 13:39:58 As an afterthought related to some posts in this blog: Please post your abuses and off topic replies in the current "EVE Online: Xxxx deployment information" thread... At least they won't feel so lonesome there... Edit> fixed a typo. And I said: Pirates? What pirates would be interested in the few rocks I have mined? 3 Minutes later I was warping back to station - in my egg...
Victoria Wolfe Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.04 13:09:00 - [72] Very cool. It's amazing the amount of work it can take for something so simple. I often say to myself "wouldn't it be cool if the game did 'this'?" but then realize it might take a whole hell of a lot of work to make it happen no matter how easy it may seem on the surface ___ "Speak for yourself sir, I intend to live forever" - Commander William Riker

CCP Elerhino Minmatar C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.14 10:58:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 01/06/2011 08:55:32 Originally by: Wollari Will this singleton flag change (1/2) be readable via API aswell? That would help lots of people with managing their industry and assets externally. Haven't checked the API yet. As we speak the API simply casts any negative quantity into 1 to avoid screwing with any summing of quantities. When I saw this post yesterday I created a defect on the new API developer that replaced me but I cannot promise when he'll get to that. But he's busy enough with development so I'm posting (also I love posting).. so soonÖ? I'm not sure how Elerhino (The new API developer.. who is also the old one that I replaced. We're a tag team.) will go about solving this, but I doubt he'll actually change the quantity from displaying 1 unit for any singleton as it will be completely incompatible with any application using the current form of the call. But we're aware of the need for the actual quantity, and the need to keep legacy app arithmetic functioning. At the off-chance that anyone is still watching this thread I figured I'd answer. Instead of messing with the quantity attributes in the asset lists we'll most likely add a new attribute called rawQuantity. It will only show up when the quantity is negative and display the actual quantity value straight from the DB. This info will of course also be in a devblog when we deploy this. CCP Elerhino CCP Software - API


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