Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Shakk Tii
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:27:00 -
[1]
If you can bribe Concord to allow you to fight in high sec with a corp, why can't a corp bribe Concord to ignore the initial bribe and not allow the war? If a corp chooses to say in high sec and do all its work and stuff in high sec and is a carebear corp why do they need to be forced into a war? Why can't they just pay Concord more then the merc and cancel the war? If mercs can pay to make a war happen why can't the other side pay to make Concord ignore the initial bribe? It's unfair to force players who choose to not pvp into pvp. Every other MMO game allows pvp to be a choice not expected if someone can pay 2 mil to the police. My corp keeps getting war dec'd by merc's who say there being paid by another corp to hit us and all we are is a carebear indy corp that started 2 weeks ago. We are all mostly new players who like mining and missions and making stuff and now all we have is a lot blown up ships and a new dec every week. This is making the game very unfun for all of us.
|
Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:31:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Shakk Tii It's unfair to force players who choose to not pvp into pvp.
You're playing the wrong game kiddo.
|
Retard Guy
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:32:00 -
[3]
find a WH and put your whole corp inside, dont bring a scanner with you.
|
Shadowed Broker
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:38:00 -
[4]
Eve is a player vs player sand box game.
but also,
There is no honor in padding your kill board with tech 1 cruiser kills of 1 month old players.
There are several options for you.
Form an alliance, even 2 small corps making an alliance jumps the wardec from 2mil to 50mil, this should wean out some of the rabble. Move around a lot, have several bases. Most high sec wardeccers also primarily camping markets, use alt haulers to move stuff out. Goto wormhole Diplomacy , find out who is paying the mercs and why. Dont give them easy kills, probably leave faster. Have several corporations people can go between.
|
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shakk Tii If you can bribe Concord to allow you to fight in high sec with a corp, why can't a corp bribe Concord to ignore the initial bribe and not allow the war?
This makes sense.
If the police is corrupt they will at least take the highest amount. Why settle for 2 million if you can get 100 million? That doesn't make sense at all, it's actually plain silly.
Very good point!
|
Bane Necran
Furtim Vigilans
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:42:00 -
[6]
Use the money to hire a mercenary corp to fight back for you.
|
Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shakk Tii If you can bribe Concord to allow you to fight in high sec with a corp, why can't a corp bribe Concord to ignore the initial bribe and not allow the war? If a corp chooses to say in high sec and do all its work and stuff in high sec and is a carebear corp why do they need to be forced into a war? Why can't they just pay Concord more then the merc and cancel the war? If mercs can pay to make a war happen why can't the other side pay to make Concord ignore the initial bribe? It's unfair to force players who choose to not pvp into pvp. Every other MMO game allows pvp to be a choice not expected if someone can pay 2 mil to the police. My corp keeps getting war dec'd by merc's who say there being paid by another corp to hit us and all we are is a carebear indy corp that started 2 weeks ago. We are all mostly new players who like mining and missions and making stuff and now all we have is a lot blown up ships and a new dec every week. This is making the game very unfun for all of us.
You agreed to war decs when you joined a player corp.
Also concord cant do that because they have their e-honor to think about.
|
Sarah De'Ath
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bud Johnson
You agreed to war decs when you joined a player corp.
Also concord cant do that because they have their e-honor to think about.
What e-honour? They takes bribes ffs
|
Zakua Corbin
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:12:00 -
[9]
I think this is a very good point, Decs dont bother me none but the idea of being able to counter offer through Concord is interesting.
Lets say the Merc group pays the 2mil, you counter to Concord a 3mil offer...Concord should take it...I know I would. Concord keeps both the 2 mil initial and the 3 mil counter offer...price of doing buisness. Hell you could even go into a bidding war, that'd be interesting.
This Gives the option to the fledgeling group to opt out of war decs but at a cost. If the SAME merc group comes back a week later to try and dec the same corp...cost is now 3mil so a counter offer would cost 4 mil. Cap it at ten mil then a waiting period of a month or something...OR dont cap it at all and one could wage war via isk attrition...runthe corp dry so to speak.
|
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:14:00 -
[10]
Is this a new feature? I didnt see that in the patch notes.
|
|
Hallingen
Caldari SWARTA
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sarah De'Ath
Originally by: Bud Johnson
You agreed to war decs when you joined a player corp.
Also concord cant do that because they have their e-honor to think about.
What e-honour? They takes bribes ffs
But they stay bought. That's the honourable part.
|
Monstress
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:19:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Monstress on 31/05/2011 21:19:30 You must have forgotten the part where this game revolves around PVP.
|
Kesshisan
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:23:00 -
[13]
I would like to throw my hat in the ring as someone who is also going to say, "Wow, the current mechanic doesn't make sense."
However, I would also like to throw my hat in the ring as someone who is going to say, "But I don't think the current mechanic should be changed." If you want to be as safe as possible from PvP, you can always leave a player corp, and join an NPC corp for the duration of your EvE life.
Please note that I am not some PvP greifer, but instead a lowly carebear. You may view my eveboard to confirm my carebear status. I enjoy the thrill of death possible being over the next hill...erm stargate. And despite me being a carbear, that is what gives EvE its je ne sais quoi which makes it EvE, and not Misc. MMORPG #271828.
|
Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:55:00 -
[14]
Paying CONCORD to declare war isn't a bribe, it's a system CONCORD uses to legally allow grievances to be settled between capsuleers.
Allowing the receiving party to cancel the wardec through a higher bid would also severely damage the mercenary mini-proffesion. Most merc corps charge the cost of wardec + some additional isk for profits. If they continuously have to increase the isk they're charging their employer, they would eventually be out of work or making little to no profits.
Don't want to be wardecced? don't join a player corp. NPC corps are now an intended game mechanic used to avoid being wardecced. Ever since CCP increased their tax rate and announced the reasons why, it's become pretty obvious that they are intended to function that way. So take advantage of that.
|
Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.31 22:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Flesh Slurper on 31/05/2011 22:10:42 Lets see:
A) Concord official takes a bribe from a merc corp and makes out with some isk.
B) Concord official takes a bribe from a merc corp, makes out with some isk, then screws the merc corp in favor of mining noobs. Said official is assassinated, and new official is put in office. Merc corp attacks mining noobs anyway.
I guess if I were working at concord i'd choose option A.
|
Llhydia
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
B) Concord official takes a bribe from a merc corp, makes out with some isk, then screws the merc corp in favor of mining noobs. Said official is assassinated, and new official is put in office. Merc corp attacks mining noobs anyway.
I guess if I were working at concord i'd choose option A.
This is about one of the most stupid things I've read. Last I checked assassinating CONCORD officials isn't part of the game mechanic.
------------------------------
In all honesty, I don't see an issue with this.
Of course hordes of "hardcore merc" corps hate this idea because it will make it far more expensive for them to randomly war dec a corp for the sole purpose of padding their KB.
It's almost as though some of the crappier "merc" corps say: Player 1: "Well, we've been getting our asses handed to us" Player 2: "I know, let's war dec some newb corp and get our kills up so we don't look as bad as we really are."
I wouldn't be surprised if CCP keeps the status quo though, considering it creates a huge isk sink that can only be filled by newbs through PLEX. So in the end, it appears CCP has sold out content for cash.
|
Renge Ukyo
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Renge Ukyo on 02/06/2011 00:14:38 I think CCP is right to center the game around CCP.
However...
The war dec system is about as unrealistic as thinking what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
If I were gonna wage war, I would acknowledge that the real world costs of the logistics in war involved are nothing like they are in the game. It costs two countries billions, not millions, to go to war. And in this game we're bickering over resources like asteroids, planets, stations and the like - things man kind can't even finance yet. Seems like 2 mill to bribe the galactic police is a little on the light side ya know?
I would say make it cost 50 mil to dec a single gorp and 500mil to dec a corp in an alliance. Then I would make that cost DOUBLE for each week they want to extend the war if the war is not made mutual.
I would also require a 30 day cool down that can be waived if a corp wants to be at war. But for the folks who don't want to be at war constantly, if they didn't make the war mutual, I think 30 days of diplomatic immunity to recoup their losses and get back on their feet would be appropriate.
This game is heinously in favor of more experienced players, which means you spend a lot of time and money getting know where because you can't ever get the pressure off you as a noob to grow.
What the changes I'm proposing would do is force merc corps and pvp junkies to go after eachother instead of padding their killboards with t1 ships from 3-4 month players.
I would also like to say I think Shakk Ti's idea of couterbribery is an excellent idea - as that **** happens in real life.
What do you all think about that?
Make it funky! - Renge |
Renge Ukyo
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Malen Nenokal Edited by: Malen Nenokal on 31/05/2011 22:12:51 Paying CONCORD to declare war isn't a bribe, it's a system CONCORD uses to legally allow grievances to be settled between capsuleers. If I bribed the police to allow me to murder you, do you think they would send both parties a notification and allow the victim a 24 hour forewarning to prepare? No, they would take the money and turn a blind eye.
Allowing the receiving party to cancel the wardec through a higher bid would also severely damage the mercenary mini-proffesion. Most merc corps charge the cost of wardec + some additional isk for profits. If they continuously have to increase the isk they're charging their employer, they would eventually be out of work or making little to no profits.
Don't want to be wardecced? don't join a player corp. NPC corps are now an intended game mechanic used to avoid being wardecced. Ever since CCP increased their tax rate and announced the reasons why, it's become pretty obvious that they are intended to function that way. So take advantage of that.
All good points. I don't see a 15% tax rate as an advantage personally though.
Make it funky! - Renge |
Cydens
Amarr Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Llhydia So in the end, it appears CCP has sold out content for cash.
I love these threads.
|
Llhydia
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cydens
Originally by: Llhydia So in the end, it appears CCP has sold out content for cash.
I love these threads.
Care to elaborate?
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Llhydia I wouldn't be surprised if CCP keeps the status quo though, considering it creates a huge isk sink that can only be filled by newbs through PLEX. So in the end, it appears CCP has sold out content for cash.
Actually, the current system is a very tiny ISK sink, so if that was their consideration, they would have upped the price a lot by now and introduced a number of different services to blow your money onà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Llhydia
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Llhydia I wouldn't be surprised if CCP keeps the status quo though, considering it creates a huge isk sink that can only be filled by newbs through PLEX. So in the end, it appears CCP has sold out content for cash.
Actually, the current system is a very tiny ISK sink, so if that was their consideration, they would have upped the price a lot by now and introduced a number of different services to blow your money onà
You honestly believe that ships destroyed through the current war dec system is a minor isk sink?
Make no mistake, most of these high sec ship ganks would have never happened without the current war dec system.
|
Grumpymunky
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:55:00 -
[23]
Aurum to cancel wardecs, coming soon!
|
Ghengis Tia
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:58:00 -
[24]
When my one-man corp was war-decced by some pendejo, I just buttoned up by having cloaked ships never dock. If I needed something in a station, I checked local to see if my antagonists were in the area, docked, did my business, and left to a safe spot.
This is a test of your ability to resist intimidation. You can relocate enough assets to a far flung area to continue your business, or as someone said, lay up in a wormhole for a month or so.
The wardec soon vanished, as I wouldn't play to their expectations, but still continued to play my game by my rules. The best way to end a bs war like this is to not show up to fight it.
|
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 02:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Llhydia
You honestly believe that ships destroyed through the current war dec system is a minor isk sink?
Make no mistake, most of these high sec ship ganks would have never happened without the current war dec system.
Ships destroyed are an ISK faucet! You receive ISK from nothing (insurance). Lost ships are a mineral sink as the minerals they contain are lost when the ship pops.
Tippia was referring the cost of a wardec as a minor ISK sink. 2 mil ISK can be made in a couple of minutes.
|
Renge Ukyo
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 02:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia When my one-man corp was war-decced by some pendejo, I just buttoned up by having cloaked ships never dock. If I needed something in a station, I checked local to see if my antagonists were in the area, docked, did my business, and left to a safe spot.
This is a test of your ability to resist intimidation. You can relocate enough assets to a far flung area to continue your business, or as someone said, lay up in a wormhole for a month or so.
The wardec soon vanished, as I wouldn't play to their expectations, but still continued to play my game by my rules. The best way to end a bs war like this is to not show up to fight it.
I like your style ace. The potential problem I see with that is some corps are large and noob heavy, so it's unlikely they'll have their cloaking skills to level 4, let a lone have the cash to buy a ship that will enable them to use the best of the cloaking devices. I suppose training into a ship that can use that cloaking device is also an issue.
The bottom line for me is that it's far too easy to bully new players. Make it funky! - Renge |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 02:37:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tippia on 02/06/2011 02:37:40
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Llhydia You honestly believe that ships destroyed through the current war dec system is a minor isk sink?
Make no mistake, most of these high sec ship ganks would have never happened without the current war dec system.
Ships destroyed are an ISK faucet! You receive ISK from nothing (insurance). Lost ships are a mineral sink as the minerals they contain are lost when the ship pops.
Tippia was referring the cost of a wardec as a minor ISK sink. 2 mil ISK can be made in a couple of minutes.
To put it into perspective, let's look at this one-day slice of faucets and sinks. Notice how wardecs don't even appear on the listà
àand then consider why: a single dec costs 2M ISK. I somehow seriously doubt that 150 corps (or 30 alliances) are getting decced each day. It's such a tiny and insignificant sink that it gets beaten by PI import taxes. Compare that to the faucet it helps generate ù insurance ù with a net influx of 70 Billion.
So again, no: if it was a matter of CCP wanting to create an ISK sink that generates more PLEX sales, they would have upped those costs ages ago. They haven't, so your [Llhydia's] reasoning about why decs haven't changed is thoroughly nonsensical. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Amberlamps
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 04:30:00 -
[28]
Personally I think there are a lot more of these "ISK" sinks to look at.
The 2 million to war dec a corporation isn't enough in my eyes due to the amount of grief it can cause for 2 million. For some players a war dec might be enough to cause a complete lock down/ never undocking which is very silly. I'm thinkin War decs should be either proportional to the amount of pilots on each sides. i.e to prevent "Merc" corps with 50+ players constantly deccing a 5 man corp endlessly for 2mil a week.
I also think basic things like medals need to be looked at, it costs what? 10 million to make a medal for your corporation and then 10 million per person to award that to each person. So it's a good ISK sink if people are willing to waste ISK but they're probably not. Drop the price to 2 million.
I think most of these ISK > NPC transactions are out of date badly in this economy now. The recent quarterly newsletter said something along the lines of an average of 1 billion in pilots wallets. Compare that to when these charges were first implemented... I think there needs to be some adjustment.
It's just an idea, a bad one at that but at least CCP should look at altering these NPC transactions to relate more to current Eve.
|
Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 04:46:00 -
[29]
Its been well established that war decs are not bribes. The book "EVE: Empyrian age" specifically mentions that the sheer number of war declarations forces DED to dedicate an entire department to processing the requests.
In addition, if you frigging read the war mails you get, you'll notice that the finishing mail mentions the Yulai convention. War decs are legally sanctioned, official and controlled occurrences.
Not, I repeat not, bribes.
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
|
Llhydia
|
Posted - 2011.06.02 13:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 02/06/2011 02:37:40
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Llhydia You honestly believe that ships destroyed through the current war dec system is a minor isk sink?
Make no mistake, most of these high sec ship ganks would have never happened without the current war dec system.
Ships destroyed are an ISK faucet! You receive ISK from nothing (insurance). Lost ships are a mineral sink as the minerals they contain are lost when the ship pops.
Tippia was referring the cost of a wardec as a minor ISK sink. 2 mil ISK can be made in a couple of minutes.
To put it into perspective, let's look at this one-day slice of faucets and sinks. Notice how wardecs don't even appear on the listà
àand then consider why: a single dec costs 2M ISK. I somehow seriously doubt that 150 corps (or 30 alliances) are getting decced each day. It's such a tiny and insignificant sink that it gets beaten by PI import taxes. Compare that to the faucet it helps generate ù insurance ù with a net influx of 70 Billion.
So again, no: if it was a matter of CCP wanting to create an ISK sink that generates more PLEX sales, they would have upped those costs ages ago. They haven't, so your [Llhydia's] reasoning about why decs haven't changed is thoroughly nonsensical.
This is honestly the FIRST TIME I have ever seen anyone even try and consider insurance an ISK faucet. Seriously, you do realize insurance doesn't even cover the cost of your ship, let alone rigs, equipment, etc.
I've actually seen new players buy PLEX to get a Hulk and Orca, only to be war dec'd and lose their Hulk and Orca. Tell me how that player spending 700m in ISK, and receiving 300m in insurance payout is a faucet?
Or, even the one's who don't PLEX, they buy a covetor, spend 29m rigging it up, and pow, lose it in a war dec with 16m insurance payout.
You can even consider a corporation who sustains nearly 2b ISK in ship destruction, with only 1b in new revenue.
Also, I'm not talking about the War Dec fee. 2m ISK for 1 week is a joke.
The ISK sink is with the noob corp that is war dec'd. Do you honestly believe these new player corps are capable of withstanding lost BCs, BSs, Exhumers, Orcas, etc? This is assuming the players even purchased "full" insurance. This is also assuming they are just trying to perform baseline operations for income.
You're deluded if you don't think war dec's cause HUGE ISK sinks. Hell, if war dec's were an isk faucet, NC wouldn't be falling apart.
-
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |