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Xemnus
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Posted - 2011.06.01 14:22:00 -
[1]
The way war decs are with Corporation vs Corporation seriously needs a change. For one, the two corporations are not fighting over anything. They are just collecting killmail. Why isn't it as complicated as Contracts where you select what you want, for example, a Planet. One corporation fights for this planet and the other has to defend it.
If a corporation wants to freelance a war, Concord needs to moderate this somehow, such as this.
Corporation 1 wants to fight Corporation 2. 1 starts the war dec and they have to select the size of space they want to fight in.
One solar system will cost 10 mill. The bigger the radius, the bigger the cost. This gives a chance for anyone who doesn't want to participate to get out of the system such as Miners and Industrialists. When the 24 hour mark hit, both corporations are only allowed to fight in the selected solar systems. They will NOT be able to dock at ANY stations of the given systems. This puts a stop to running to a station because they are outnumbered.
For a bit of time now, Griefer Corps have war decced the current corporation I am in. It is a waste of time in Eve because it goes one of three ways.
1. I'm outnumbered and they come to my system and camp the station I am docked in.
2. They or we are gate camping someone.
3. They are outnumbered and the stay docked. Sending newly created toons to spy around to see where we are.
I feel that this suggestion would be a great change and would bring a higher chance for an actual fleet battle. Corp 1 and 2 gets their fleet together and fights out at the selected solar system, OR if the solar system is too small and out of the way, Corp 2 completely ignores the war dec and bypass the system. Now if they paid enough to make fighting legal in the entire region, then all is possible.
People are probably going to hate this idea, so all "hate this idea for no reason" without more suggestions are ignored.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:27:00 -
[2]
This would make wardecs entirely pointless 99% of the time.
HTFU.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:46:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Xemnus The way war decs are with Corporation vs Corporation seriously needs a change. For one, the two corporations are not fighting over anything. They are just collecting killmail. Why isn't it as complicated as Contracts where you select what you want, for example, a Planet. One corporation fights for this planet and the other has to defend it.
If a corporation wants to freelance a war, Concord needs to moderate this somehow, such as this.
Corporation 1 wants to fight Corporation 2. 1 starts the war dec and they have to select the size of space they want to fight in.
One solar system will cost 10 mill. The bigger the radius, the bigger the cost. This gives a chance for anyone who doesn't want to participate to get out of the system such as Miners and Industrialists. When the 24 hour mark hit, both corporations are only allowed to fight in the selected solar systems. They will NOT be able to dock at ANY stations of the given systems. This puts a stop to running to a station because they are outnumbered.
For a bit of time now, Griefer Corps have war decced the current corporation I am in. It is a waste of time in Eve because it goes one of three ways.
1. I'm outnumbered and they come to my system and camp the station I am docked in.
2. They or we are gate camping someone.
3. They are outnumbered and the stay docked. Sending newly created toons to spy around to see where we are.
I feel that this suggestion would be a great change and would bring a higher chance for an actual fleet battle. Corp 1 and 2 gets their fleet together and fights out at the selected solar system, OR if the solar system is too small and out of the way, Corp 2 completely ignores the war dec and bypass the system. Now if they paid enough to make fighting legal in the entire region, then all is possible.
People are probably going to hate this idea, so all "hate this idea for no reason" without more suggestions are ignored.
You do realize that you can petition a corp that is actually griefing as per the rules of this game....right?
Or do you not have a good grasp of the rules that define griefing with in the context of the game?
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Xemnus
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Posted - 2011.06.01 16:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Xemnus The way war decs are with Corporation vs Corporation seriously needs a change. For one, the two corporations are not fighting over anything. They are just collecting killmail. Why isn't it as complicated as Contracts where you select what you want, for example, a Planet. One corporation fights for this planet and the other has to defend it.
If a corporation wants to freelance a war, Concord needs to moderate this somehow, such as this.
Corporation 1 wants to fight Corporation 2. 1 starts the war dec and they have to select the size of space they want to fight in.
One solar system will cost 10 mill. The bigger the radius, the bigger the cost. This gives a chance for anyone who doesn't want to participate to get out of the system such as Miners and Industrialists. When the 24 hour mark hit, both corporations are only allowed to fight in the selected solar systems. They will NOT be able to dock at ANY stations of the given systems. This puts a stop to running to a station because they are outnumbered.
For a bit of time now, Griefer Corps have war decced the current corporation I am in. It is a waste of time in Eve because it goes one of three ways.
1. I'm outnumbered and they come to my system and camp the station I am docked in.
2. They or we are gate camping someone.
3. They are outnumbered and the stay docked. Sending newly created toons to spy around to see where we are.
I feel that this suggestion would be a great change and would bring a higher chance for an actual fleet battle. Corp 1 and 2 gets their fleet together and fights out at the selected solar system, OR if the solar system is too small and out of the way, Corp 2 completely ignores the war dec and bypass the system. Now if they paid enough to make fighting legal in the entire region, then all is possible.
People are probably going to hate this idea, so all "hate this idea for no reason" without more suggestions are ignored.
You do realize that you can petition a corp that is actually griefing as per the rules of this game....right?
Or do you not have a good grasp of the rules that define griefing with in the context of the game?
Yes, but by the rules of grieving they have to keep wardecing the corp. That was what I was told. But if they actually bite off more than they can chew, we go after them and they stay docked 90% of the time because they can't match up to our fleet. But when most of us are gone or not logged in, they want to try and pick off on the less experience or the ones that don't PvP.
I'm tired of logging on and saying "Lets do this." to find out that all war targets have docked up and won't come out to do anything. I can't report them for that.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.01 16:24:00 -
[5]
Working as intended.
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.01 17:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG Working as intended.
This man is wise.
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Digiball
Amarr Fink Operations
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Posted - 2011.06.01 20:56:00 -
[7]
war dec as we know it sucks. and ofc it needs a nerf-- there should be options to set term of surender etc.. and when killled by war targets the insurance fee shouldent be paid out.. so many isues with the current war system.. we also need a new thing in eve. a stratecig map where pilots can plot in where wt ae or enemies are camping on some sort of warmap let players report wt and enemies and when they do this a blob with the players name and ship type if psotted is shown on this map.. so man manu errors in the way war are atm.. also rtarded u can keep war deccing a corp. ofc there should be a static wait time a cool down peroiod of 3 weeks or more. atm there are so many greefer corps/alliances in empire only going for easy targets. i dont mind getting blown down but to greefing parties it suck. if they would only fight sometimes, maybe make it so that when there is a wt in your local u cant dock! now this would be entertaining.. u would have to pod kill people to get em spawn at a random location out of that specific system :))) imagine jita after this!!!!
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Tyme Xandr
Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 22:04:00 -
[8]
Welcome to EVE Online guys ... its just how it works. Join an alliance that has some combat troops to make your lives easier.
Its just like sci fi movies. Industrialists hire combat pilots/crews to help them. Thats what u need to do, go make some friends in this massively multiplayer online role playing game.
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.06.01 22:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xemnus People are probably going to hate this idea
Yes, and that's because it stinks.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.01 22:32:00 -
[10]
Some points I'd like to argue and discuss with this:
- It's working as intended, and has worked this way well for most of the life of EvE.
- War dec's are a way to force an opponent, specifically in hisec, into a confrontation when otherwise they'd use every other mechanic to avoid it.
- Without war decs', it would be impossible to take over hisec POS's, destroy hisec mining and mission runners who might support losec or nulsec players, or combat trade (with current mechanics).
- The current war dec system is free of 'unnatural' limitations, allowing players to use ONE simple and effective mechanic to solve hundreds of possible problems (see above).
- War decs are the only way to combat hisec griefers and various pirates who use ratting sec gain mechanics and concords protection to enjoy their game without rebuttal.
- War dec mechanics are currently limited in the allowing of corp jumpers, alliance hops, and 'false' wars to increase the cost of declaring war.
Personally, I feel each of the above points is true. But with that said, I do think that, just like the old Escrow system (which did almost everything contracts do now, only with more open rules and fewer guidelines), it might be possible to review and rework the act of wars in order to bring MORE elements to the game.
Whether a corporation is going to war for fun or for a purpose, I would like to see the options open. But with that, certain things may need to be considered, including cost of declaring war, contracts for war decs (as in, contracts to declare war on an opponent open for bidding), and mechanics to stop corps from jumping ship when declared upon.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
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Xemnus
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Posted - 2011.06.01 23:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Some points I'd like to argue and discuss with this:
- It's working as intended, and has worked this way well for most of the life of EvE.
- War dec's are a way to force an opponent, specifically in hisec, into a confrontation when otherwise they'd use every other mechanic to avoid it.
- Without war decs', it would be impossible to take over hisec POS's, destroy hisec mining and mission runners who might support losec or nulsec players, or combat trade (with current mechanics).
- The current war dec system is free of 'unnatural' limitations, allowing players to use ONE simple and effective mechanic to solve hundreds of possible problems (see above).
- War decs are the only way to combat hisec griefers and various pirates who use ratting sec gain mechanics and concords protection to enjoy their game without rebuttal.
- War dec mechanics are currently limited in the allowing of corp jumpers, alliance hops, and 'false' wars to increase the cost of declaring war.
Personally, I feel each of the above points is true. But with that said, I do think that, just like the old Escrow system (which did almost everything contracts do now, only with more open rules and fewer guidelines), it might be possible to review and rework the act of wars in order to bring MORE elements to the game.
Whether a corporation is going to war for fun or for a purpose, I would like to see the options open. But with that, certain things may need to be considered, including cost of declaring war, contracts for war decs (as in, contracts to declare war on an opponent open for bidding), and mechanics to stop corps from jumping ship when declared upon.
You make a very good point here. As the other guy said, I don't mind getting blew up at all. I am also not asking for us to get RID of War decs, I am asking for a change for it. For example, as you said. Declare war to take over hisec POS. Then declare war for that reason. If the POS is in the solar system of Jita (for example) and you really want that spot or to just get rid of it. Make the contracted war dec for that solar system. Now, if they don't choose to defend it. You destroy it, war is over. If they do choose to defend it. Then Call to Arms and defend/attack. High sec pirate or players that support low sec corps? You know exactly where they hang out? Set the solar system/region you know they hang out in and make it legal. During this war, if they decide to move out of the limit of the contracted war dec. Expand it until they can't dock in the selected areas anymore. (Of course this may need limitations such as trade hubs.)
I'm not saying I hate the way it is now. If people took war decs seriously, instead of for fun. I would have no problem with it. Being selected for a war because we have high numbers is just not cool. If I wanted to, I would just go back to the neutral corps. Therefore, no one can war dec me and I can continue enjoying the game my way. Making isk or whatever it may be.
Anyway. More money needs to be involved for declaring war. 2 mill for a random corporation? I could sneeze that much. If they can nerf the money we get from T2 Insurance... they could make this change at least.
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Tyme Xandr
Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.01 23:43:00 -
[12]
Declaring war for bits and pieces is ridiculous. The purpose of a war IS to disrupt your corp completely. Changing this defeats the purpose of wardecs. If anything, I think wardecs should be increased in cost. I ran a merc corp for a while and I was able to maintain several wardecs for relatively nothing.
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Gangster101 PureLove
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Posted - 2011.06.01 23:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Danika Princip This would make wardecs entirely pointless 99% of the time.
HTFU.
We know and understand your life sucks... no need to rage on the forums
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Elvis Preslie
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Posted - 2011.06.02 00:12:00 -
[14]
I just had two corps war dec and the war was retracted by concord for being against some convention or w/e, through a petition; so, it does work as intended. HOWEVER, contact between the two CEO's SHOULD be required before one ceo is allowed to war dec the other corporation. This would keep the kiddies that create corps only to declare war from doing so. There should be some kind of check to see if the ceo of a corp being war dec'ed actually knows the person and has had words with them, the way the manual checks are done when you petition griefing.
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Umoto Korriken
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Posted - 2011.06.02 00:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Umoto Korriken on 02/06/2011 00:58:32 Perhaps a change would be nice, but not remove what we have. Perhaps a limited war option could be implemented. Personally, I would like to see a sort of "war game" pvp scenario. Like a 3-7 day first to X kills wins. both sides put up a wager, winning takes the wager. wager can be anything from isk to ships to modules.... ok isk would be much easier to deal with.
The way war decs work now is comparable to slipping the chief of police a wad of cash and telling him to not pursue the perpetrator of a crime spree thats about to go down against the local gas station.
Concord protects you.... unless someone pays for permission to kill you.
But seriously, the one size fits all war is alright, but different kinds would be fun to play with. I'm sure there are corps out there that would love to have a war where with goals that can be recorded, much like a killmail. Could call em something else, besides war, maybe a Conflict or a Skirmish?
EDIT: I don't mean to remove the regular war dec. Other options alongside it would be fun.
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Tyme Xandr
Gallente Stones Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.02 01:17:00 -
[16]
I wish to keep wardecs the same. However two possible ideas for a change could be:
1: Make wardecs cost more 2: make wardecs cost even more when the corporation you are wardecing is smaller then you.
But my vote: Keep it the same.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.06.02 09:17:00 -
[17]
ROFL!!!!
I love stupid carebear posts.
NPC corps wardec immunity, that need a change, everything else is just fine.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.06.02 12:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Umoto Korriken
Concord protects you.... unless someone pays for permission to kill you.
Concord delivers punishment, not protection.
Thus you are paying them to stay out of the fight.
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Learath
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Posted - 2011.06.02 15:41:00 -
[19]
AFAICT HS Wars are only ever used by griefers to extend their griefing. The attackers go after lone ships, then dock up when they don't outnumber the mining barges. YMMV
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.06.02 16:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Learath AFAICT HS Wars are only ever used by griefers to extend their griefing. The attackers go after lone ships, then dock up when they don't outnumber the mining barges. YMMV
If they are actually griefing, then petition.
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