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N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.03 20:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: N''maro Makari on 03/06/2011 20:38:48 Edited by: N''maro Makari on 03/06/2011 20:36:01 Edited by: N''maro Makari on 03/06/2011 20:35:33 Firstly, why does PvP need a revamp?
- At the moment, the attitude to warfare is one of "Get ships. Party hard." - The Point and click interface. Its just not that engaging . - Inflexible. Its simply the same story, no matter how thick you slice it. In, point click, die or win.
Do you agree or disagree? What changes would you make?
Well, heres one of my ideas, and I'd appreciate anyone willing to contribute.
SHIP SYSYTEMS.
Yes, it is slightly star trek-esque, but offers a new dimension to combat. Basically, every ship is equipped certain with vital sytems
- Sub-Light engines (click-there-go-there) - Warp drive - Targeting - Comunications
No how this would affect combat, is as well as being given the option to go guns blazing and just try to anihilate the guy, you could be given the option to target one of these systems. For example, taking out targeting (dont panic) would mean the enemy's weapons would have reduced accuracy, tracking speed etc. Similarly, damaging the warp drive would mean they couldnt warp away, or less severly meant the warp drive would take longer to warm up.
Some sytems that would probably not be included:
- Shields. Giving the option to just take these out would just screw up gameplay mechanics, and would severly frak over the Caldari - Life Support. You're in a pod, genius.
Anyhow, I think this would make PvP, particularly fleet fights, just so much more immersive.
IDEAS NAO!
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Ingkala
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Posted - 2011.06.03 21:03:00 -
[2]
So let me get this right; you're proposing that we should have the ability to jam ship electronics? Which we already have? Or am I completely wrong here.
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Niveon
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Posted - 2011.06.03 21:04:00 -
[3]
F&I D -->
And yeah, sounds like longer lasting ewar, if that. |
N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.04 00:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ingkala So let me get this right; you're proposing that we should have the ability to jam ship electronics? Which we already have? Or am I completely wrong here.
To a degree, you do have the wrong end of the stick. What I'm suggesting is that you could actually use the weapons on the ship to destroy the vital systems, as opposed to using a module for a similar effect. However, its curcially different.
For example, say you try to warp scrable someone, but they simply have a warp stabilizer. You would have the option to ue the weapons to physically target the warp drive, offering you a second way around.
By no means would I offer an easy break, I would intend for taking out a system completely to be quite to exeptionally difficult.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.06.04 00:36:00 -
[5]
CCP already has this idea but it is on a back burner along with many others.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.04 03:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: N'maro Makari snip
You are wrong.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.04 05:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 04/06/2011 05:48:17
Originally by: Shepard Book CCP already has this idea but it is on a back burner along with many others.
Not just the back burner. The DEVs do want to incorporate this idea into ship combat at some point... they just have to get around a few issues... the two biggest being:
1. How do code it
2. How to make it viable.
The first one is pretty simple. It just takes a bit (see: A LOT) of time and perhaps some tinkering with some older coding (which may or may not cause issues with other game functions).
The second issue is a bit trickier. Combat in EVE is already quite fast-paced. One minute you're alive, the next you aren't. The only place you idea might be viable in is in small ship vs. bigger ship fights (which isn't really a bad thing). One solution that I believe you might suggest is to add more HP to ships so "combat lasts longer." Funnily enough, this was already done a few years ago to do EXACTLY THAT. HP levels for all ships were doubled and it did 2 things; 1. switch FOTY (Fits of the Year) from active tanking to passive/buffer tanking and 2. make people bring more people to ensure a "quick and decisive" gank (i.e. cause more blobbing for that "insta" kill). _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
pushdogg
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.06.04 07:48:00 -
[8]
I'm not really sure a change is needed.....group combat and blobs have changed pvp.....blame the 50% HP buff......pvp before then was different......even more....I'm down to go back to warp to 15km.
Whiners paying the bills ruined eve. best sig ever:)
Originally by: Soul Harvestor You're an idiot.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.04 10:05:00 -
[9]
Most ships have several vital systems.
Taking out one of those systems usually defeats the ship.
For example: if one could take out the weapon systems of gunboat that one has tackled, all the other stuff (tanking, speed, shields) doesn't make a difference. The ship is no threat and cannot get away. Its defeated. So, if taking out its weapon systems is anything less difficult than taking out the entire ship, people will do that.
Only thing I see as viable is a kind of critical hit system. Target a specific system and have a chance at taking it out for a short period. This of course will mean that the prop systems of Vaga's etc. are going to be targeted and that GTFO abilities of players fighting larger odds are getting worse.
Core issues in PvP are currently not the point and click interface. Core issues in PvP is that actually in-battle skills and decision rarely mean much. The pre-battle skills (a bit of fitting, but most importantly choosing one's fight) are way more important.
It takes a lot of time (and a bit of skill) to get into battles that aren't decided from the outset. In those kind of battles the decision you mention matter, it doesn't really matter if you can point or click or not if you get blobbed 10 to 1, get a Falcon or Logi assisting the hostiles while you're solo etc.
The game should create more opportunities for in-battle skill, decision and mechanics to matter, tinkering with the mechanics itself doesn't help that much.
A lot of more thinking needs to be done. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.04 12:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Merdaneth Most ships have several vital systems.
Taking out one of those systems usually defeats the ship.
For example: if one could take out the weapon systems of gunboat that one has tackled, all the other stuff (tanking, speed, shields) doesn't make a difference. The ship is no threat and cannot get away. Its defeated. So, if taking out its weapon systems is anything less difficult than taking out the entire ship, people will do that.
Only thing I see as viable is a kind of critical hit system. Target a specific system and have a chance at taking it out for a short period. This of course will mean that the prop systems of Vaga's etc. are going to be targeted and that GTFO abilities of players fighting larger odds are getting worse.
Core issues in PvP are currently not the point and click interface. Core issues in PvP is that actually in-battle skills and decision rarely mean much. The pre-battle skills (a bit of fitting, but most importantly choosing one's fight) are way more important.
It takes a lot of time (and a bit of skill) to get into battles that aren't decided from the outset. In those kind of battles the decision you mention matter, it doesn't really matter if you can point or click or not if you get blobbed 10 to 1, get a Falcon or Logi assisting the hostiles while you're solo etc.
The game should create more opportunities for in-battle skill, decision and mechanics to matter, tinkering with the mechanics itself doesn't help that much.
A lot of more thinking needs to be done.
Well, kudos where it's due, because overall warfare is very well done, and as you said tactics and strategy play a big part in corp warfare and thats a good thing.
But wrapping it all up, I think just any measure making using ships more skill-intensive is the way most of us seem to be thinking. As in actualy skill, not just put a skill book in the oven for a day or two.
I curious to know what you would suggest?
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bushwacka
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:25:00 -
[11]
the idea is a good one, but i would modify it in 2 ways:
1. shooting subsystems doesn't disable them, but cripples them severely (to let's say about 30% efficiency). to rectify this: new special nanite repair paste that gets applied a bit faster than the old one. or just combine the whole thing with overheating and subsystem damage gets applied as heat to mods (turrets getting damaged when shooting the offensive subsystem and so on).
2. only ships 1-2 steps below the target ship class can disable its subsystems, with supercaps being vulnerable to everything and frigs having no subsystems at all. you'd be lucky to even scratch a frig with large guns, let alone hit a certain part of it without oneshotting it. on the other hand, a frig/cruiser would have an easy time shooting the subsystems of a BC and anything bigger. this evens out small vs big pvp and tackles the supercap issue. maybe even introduce special drones that suck at everything, but **** subsystems.
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Mabah Vin
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Posted - 2011.06.04 15:34:00 -
[12]
Compared to 'PVP' in other games, PVP in Eve is not really PVP using 'skill'.
There is very limited control of ships with clicks snd keystrokes. The orbiting is computer based.
Opponents are not killed based on actual skills in aiming, tracking, and firing.
It is based on 'time'.
That is, one person has more 'time' in game thus his weapon or ship is stronger..
Make weapons with the same damage, pilot control of the ship (Get rid of the computer 'click' orbiting), speed control based on real piloting skill, etc..then there is PVP with real skill and piloting.
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rev risingdawn
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Posted - 2011.06.04 16:20:00 -
[13]
Manual piloting recently got nerfed as there is now a macimum number of direction changes you can make through double clicking in a certain timelapse, doesn't look like ccp wants to add skill requirements to pvp
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Shinikama Severasse
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Posted - 2011.06.04 21:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: rev risingdawn Manual piloting recently got nerfed as there is now a macimum number of direction changes you can make through double clicking in a certain timelapse, doesn't look like ccp wants to add skill requirements to pvp
Well, if you look at it from a fluff standpoint, any ship except some frigates aren't actually piloted just by you, but by a crew. You can only issue orders so fast and your human brain (with all its implants and modifications) can't handle everything at once manually.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.06.04 23:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 04/06/2011 23:36:05 Or you could do some real pvp instead of the blobbage which is obviously all you ever do.
Plus I find eve pvp the most engaging rather than some joystick homo jet racing game.
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N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.05 21:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 04/06/2011 23:36:05 Or you could do some real pvp instead of the blobbage which is obviously all you ever do.
Plus I find eve pvp the most engaging rather than some joystick homo jet racing game.
There should be more than one way to enjoy PvP. Say something constructive or nothing at all.
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N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.05 21:07:00 -
[17]
Edited by: N''maro Makari on 05/06/2011 21:07:57
Originally by: bushwacka the idea is a good one, but i would modify it in 2 ways:
1. shooting subsystems doesn't disable them, but cripples them severely (to let's say about 30% efficiency). to rectify this: new special nanite repair paste that gets applied a bit faster than the old one. or just combine the whole thing with overheating and subsystem damage gets applied as heat to mods (turrets getting damaged when shooting the offensive subsystem and so on).
2. only ships 1-2 steps below the target ship class can disable its subsystems, with supercaps being vulnerable to everything and frigs having no subsystems at all. you'd be lucky to even scratch a frig with large guns, let alone hit a certain part of it without oneshotting it. on the other hand, a frig/cruiser would have an easy time shooting the subsystems of a BC and anything bigger. this evens out small vs big pvp and tackles the supercap issue. maybe even introduce special drones that suck at everything, but **** subsystems.
Yeah I think completely taking out a system would just generate aggro. But I deffinitetly like that david and goliath thing. The only trouble is that a BS can already have a hard time hitting a fast moving frig, so it might mean that if you were flying a big ship in low or null sec youd have to have a frig escort.
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N'maro Makari
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Posted - 2011.06.05 21:10:00 -
[18]
Say if you were to introdue manual piloting. What would be the best configuration? Im just thinking that the d-pad might be a bit limiting.
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Mabah Vin
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Posted - 2011.06.05 21:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 05/06/2011 21:57:44 Edited by: Mabah Vin on 05/06/2011 21:56:37
Originally by: N'maro Makari Say if you were to introdue manual piloting. What would be the best configuration? Im just thinking that the d-pad might be a bit limiting.
Joystick.
Weapons..defense..throttle configured to the buttons.
Get rid of the 'time' factor and make all weapons and equiptment equal according to model, type, caliber etc. according to what one can afford.
As it is now, even with the best gear one can afford, 'time', dictates it's damage or performance, not real 'skill'.
What we have now is not real 'PVP' but 'PVT', Player vs Time.
Real manuverablity and control, weapons and equiptment equal (The best you can buy) and now you have real combat.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.06 06:47:00 -
[20]
Moved from 'Warfare & Tactics'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.06.06 12:32:00 -
[21]
At the moment piloting small ships is fine, it's battleships which are really boring to use so Subsystem damage would be perfect for this purpose. Locking the subsystems themselves though I'm not sure about, that could be kind of hard to manage.
I think a better option would be to introduce a random chance of subsystem damage which increases the further you get into each health bar. As the shields are burnt down they could spew radiation and damage electronic systems such as the warp computer or targeting systems. Armour damage could compromise more mechanical systems like fuel lines or the warp engine itself, and structure damage would have a chance of blowing the ship up entirely.
Repairing would probably be best arranged in a queue- as soon as a system is damaged it joins the queue, and players can drag items up and down to tell the crew what to prioritise.
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