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[Incarna]Neocom and Humanity ?

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ThomaK WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:02:00 - [1] Edited by: ThomaK WarheaD on 07/06/2011 14:03:05 Hi everyone ! You can find a TL;DR at the end of the second post ! It's been a really long time for now that i want to say something to the other Eve Players, and to CCP, i hope, if someone, somewhere in their far away inslandic bunker, is listenning. I want to talk about something really important, it's in the incoming extension, and yes, it's Incarna. I'm posting it now, because i recently figured that 26th June is really soon, and since my very first steps on testing the Incarna features in the Duality and Singularity Test Servers (For those who didn't see my hour of glory ) i've seen a lot of things, some were really bugged, some were cool, but one big question remains : Is CCP really going to keep its old promise to us, the old and whinning Eve Online player base ? This promise was really simple : you don't want to take part in Incarna ? You are not forced to, just stay in your ship in station, and live the normal life of an agoraphobic capsuleer ! First thing to say, i'm an Incarna-thusiast, i really think Incarna is going to bring us a real plus in the Eve Online general universe and gameplay à only if things are done while keeping this "promise" in mind, but as far as i can see, something is going terribly wrong, and i want CCP to reassured me (and by me I mean us) about this. When you launch Eve Online û Incarna on the Singularity Test Server (you can test it now, it's only 3GB to dl), you have this : http://tof.canardpc.com/view/f842f6e2-a087-489f-848b-f11df59dc4eb.jpg This is where things gone really wrong, after 10 to 15 seconds à You have this on your screen (only if your as Gallente as me, I agree ^^) : http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e94dde70-decc-400b-9f9b-c83a803af28d.jpg Younger, and carefree people surely want to ask me what is going wrong with that picture à And here is why I'm showing you that . First thing, if I don't want to play in Incarna-Mode à Well I'm f***ed. Yes i know, I can always talk to my agent, and operate with my neocom while it's loading, and even if Incarna-mode is on, if I really don't care, but there's two wrong ideas in this case : The first wrong idea is to think that having an avatar in your background doesn't affect the way you play while in station, i'm not one of them, but i must think for the people who hate the concept of Incarna. These players are, for now, forced to use Incarna, even if they don't want to because they don't like the feature. The second wrong idea is à WTF NEOCOM ??? I don't know if other players (and CCP too, btw) have a little idea of what the Neocom represent, what the billions of chat channels and other stuff like the Market or Science and Industry you can access through the Neocom represents in Eve, but as far as i understand it, the Neocom (a.k.a. The UI) is the interface capsuleer uses when he's in his pod, because of neural link between his brain and the on-board computer, that's what your character sees when he's using the Pod.
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:05:00 - [2] Theoretically, when you enter Incarna, you disconnect from all that stuff that means only one thing : You were not online anymore. To keep things "realistic", we should say bye the neocom interface of your warm and safe pod, now you're only human à I'm not inventing this myself, that was said multiple times in the two past Fanfest. T keep things coherent, I think that when you go to Incarna-mode is to have no UI (or, a different UI, if CCP really want one). You should leave every chat channel you were in. Including the local. And seem to disconnect for people who where watchlisting you. After all, you disconnected from your pod. And if you want to get back in, well, you go back to the deck and enter yout pod/ship ... after 30 seconds of stack, like if you were switching ships in station. The way I see things requests to things : first, to be able to dock and not leave your pod. This way, things would stay as they are for the people who don't want to use Incarna. Second, to have a chat interface in our CQ to be able to keep written contact with our corp/alliance/other people. I'm thinking of someting like a tablet PC, but CCP is more imaginative than me so I trust them for coming up with something better. I really don't know if my vision of Incarna is shared by orther players, and by CCP, but i'm thinking of it more and more recently and it is for me the only way for incarna to take a place in Eve : Be something REALLY different, not an unfinished feature, with no soul à Please CCP people, help me to see if you shared that vision with me ! Thanks for you for reading this long post, and sorry for anything that seems not english à I'm not english myself, just doing my best ! TL;DR : Incarna must differ from Eve Online general experience : No Neocom, no chat channels, now Science and Industry popups or windows, you're Offline. If you want to chat, for exampler, find a computer somwhere in the station, then camera focus the screen, oh boy you're on the chan now. Have a nice day :).
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:05:00 - [3] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 07/06/2011 14:13:19 You could have just as well put the TL;DL at the beginning, since that is where it belongs and you clearly knew it by posting directions where to find the TL;DR section there. EDIT: I couldn't disagree with you more as far as the neocom is concerned. Realism is nice, but it'll get to be a nuicanse very fast, if I can't access everything I used to be able just as easily. That would be a downgrade of gameplay for no real benefit to the game. I wouldn't oppose to the option of being able to easily hide the neocom and providing the same functionality using the panels and computers in your room. That way I could ignore such foolishness, but the hardcore immersion fanatics could have their fun too.
Docteur Orange	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Docteur Orange on 07/06/2011 14:09:00 Nice
ThomaK WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:11:00 - [5] sorry it take me time to post the second part (present in the second post ... posted by my second character ... I know I know), that's why you haven't seen it.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:26:00 - [6] I agree with this, not necessarily with the exact details, but with the broad point. Making the CQ work as both first step into Incarna and have the same functionality of the old hanger view is crippling for the designers. It means any change they want to make to how we handle the things we used to do in our hangers effects Incarna, and any change they want to make to incarna effects how we do things in our hangers. When you disconnect from your pod, it should take you longer to do things, every step you take away from your pod should be a step your going to have to retrace to get back to it. There should be content in Incarna to tempt you away from your pod, but you should really feel the distance it takes you from your pod... from safety. If your sitting at a bar and the call comes to form a fleet, you should have to run all the way back to your pod, cursing every extra second it takes to get there. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 18:35:00 - [7] Exactly, It's a new way to interact with the Eve Universe (like Dust), hope the test server only test performances.
Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.06.07 18:47:00 - [8] Thumbs up. This would be good for immersion. But it might scare some ppl away from using incarna for e.g. corp meetings. If everyone is required to walk to some conference room and sit down eye to eye you might then people might bail out. I can see alot of ppl avoiding incarna for this reason. That said, I am personally positive to your idea.
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 19:17:00 - [9] Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 07/06/2011 19:17:58 Originally by: Cpt Fina But it might scare some ppl away from using incarna for e.g. corp meetings. Teamspeak remains for that ;). I don't think this should scare people ... it's more like WH ... You're going elsewhere ... BTW nothing stops CCP to give the player a phone like in GTA for example where you can join Eve Voice if you really want to be roleplay
Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.06.07 19:22:00 - [10] Originally by: BugraT WarheaD Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 07/06/2011 19:17:58 Originally by: Cpt Fina But it might scare some ppl away from using incarna for e.g. corp meetings. Teamspeak remains for that ;). I don't think this should scare people ... it's more like WH ... You're going elsewhere ... BTW nothing stops CCP to give the player a phone like in GTA for example where you can join Eve Voice if you really want to be roleplay Yep, you're right. But I think there need to be some kind of easy way for corp and alliance members to get a hold of ppl in station for this to work. Also, general chit chat betweeen space pilots and station dwellers can't be cumbersome otherwise this could create a rift in corps / alliances.
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: BugraT WarheaD Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 07/06/2011 19:17:58 Originally by: Cpt Fina But it might scare some ppl away from using incarna for e.g. corp meetings. Teamspeak remains for that ;). I don't think this should scare people ... it's more like WH ... You're going elsewhere ... BTW nothing stops CCP to give the player a phone like in GTA for example where you can join Eve Voice if you really want to be roleplay Yep, you're right. But I think there need to be some kind of easy way for corp and alliance members to get a hold of ppl in station for this to work. Also, general chit chat betweeen space pilots and station dwellers can't be cumbersome otherwise this could create a rift in corps / alliances. CCP told us about Alliance and Corporation Quarter no ?
Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:38:00 - [12] Originally by: BugraT WarheaD CCP told us about Alliance and Corporation Quarter no ? I'm talking about logging on and finding that half of ppl online in alliance / corp is "unreachable" thru normal comms. That would not be very good imo and something that would have to be adressedby ccp.
Ilatius	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:43:00 - [13] Originally by: BugraT WarheaD Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 07/06/2011 19:19:29 Theoretically, when you enter Incarna, you disconnect from all that stuff ; that means only one thing : You were not online anymore. TL;DR : Incarna must differ from Eve Online general experience : No Neocom, no chat channels, no Science and Industry popups or windows, you're Offline. If you want to chat, for exampler, find a computer somwhere in the station, then camera focus the screen, oh boy you're on the chan now. Have a nice day :). Well, I wont say this is not true for every capsuleer out there, however, there are examples in the eve books about people operating things, transmitting information etc while not being plugged in physically. I wont give examples as to not spoil anything about the books to those who have not read them. When you think about it, in the advance age eve is set in, how hard would it be to implant audio and visual implants that function as an interface....
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Ilatius Originally by: BugraT WarheaD Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 07/06/2011 19:19:29 Theoretically, when you enter Incarna, you disconnect from all that stuff ; that means only one thing : You were not online anymore. TL;DR : Incarna must differ from Eve Online general experience : No Neocom, no chat channels, no Science and Industry popups or windows, you're Offline. If you want to chat, for exampler, find a computer somwhere in the station, then camera focus the screen, oh boy you're on the chan now. Have a nice day :). Well, I wont say this is not true for every capsuleer out there, however, there are examples in the eve books about people operating things, transmitting information etc while not being plugged in physically. I wont give examples as to not spoil anything about the books to those who have not read them. When you think about it, in the advance age eve is set in, how hard would it be to implant audio and visual implants that function as an interface.... I think chat channels would be something you would always have (although you might have a separate channel for in station in place of local for when your out of pod.) As we have implants its basically just saying we have the equivalent of a mobile phone in our heads. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:01:00 - [15] Edited by: MotherMoon on 07/06/2011 23:01:57 I would just like to point out that everythign the neocom does not let you open like currently open windows, chat boxes and so on was all built into the Neo Neocom that the playerbase whined about. Points and laughs.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:04:00 - [16] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 07/06/2011 23:01:57 I would just like to point out that everythign the neocom does not let you open like currently open windows, chat boxes and so on was all built into the Neo Neocom that the playerbase whined about. Points and laughs. I am sorry, and It may be just because its late... but I didn't understand that at all. Could you try using more words so I can understand what you're saying? __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:08:00 - [17] Edited by: MotherMoon on 07/06/2011 23:08:38 wait, I'm stupid. lol
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:08:00 - [18] OP makes sense.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:10:00 - [19] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 07/06/2011 23:08:38 wait, I'm stupid. lol No, just slightly incoherent __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 07/06/2011 14:13:19 You could have just as well put the TL;DL at the beginning, since that is where it belongs and you clearly knew it by posting directions where to find the TL;DR section there. EDIT: I couldn't disagree with you more as far as the neocom is concerned. Realism is nice, but it'll get to be a nuicanse very fast, if I can't access everything I used to be able just as easily. That would be a downgrade of gameplay for no real benefit to the game. I wouldn't oppose to the option of being able to easily hide the neocom and providing the same functionality using the panels and computers in your room. That way I could ignore such foolishness, but the hardcore immersion fanatics could have their fun too. The point of Incarna as it was sold and the OP describes, I agree with, is it adds more to EVE and specifically things you can't do while in your pod. A separate interface like a wrist computer with limited functionality is an option but to have all the things walking around that you had in your pod is bull. Maybe somethings would be on a delay like market orders and wallet transactions getting pulled from the API. If it is too inconvenient for you to lose that functionality then you don't leave your pod. If you value what CCP should add to incarna then you do leave your pod. The neocom only needs to exist if CCP fails to add to incarna in a meaningful way OR people are just lazy/etc to want everything all the time. A compromise might be to leave the neocom overlay in your CQ but once you leave CQ you are reduced to a limited interface from your wrist watch/gauntlet computer. You'd then have the option of utilizing kiosks/computers to regain the fullness of the neocom functions as when in your pod.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Kerrisone A compromise might be to leave the neocom overlay in your CQ but once you leave CQ you are reduced to a limited interface from your wrist watch/gauntlet computer. You'd then have the option of utilizing kiosks/computers to regain the fullness of the neocom functions as when in your pod. The trouble with that from a design perspective is that the rest of Incarna becomes functionally different from CQ. And as CQ are in part a test-bed for the technology being applied throughout the rest of incarna, having them functionally different reduces its efficaciousness as a test-bed. Also it would feel weird having Incarna being artificially different in CQ from the rest of the station. It would be much simpler and more effective to let us keep the old hanger and make CQ a completely separate realm where they can ditch the old UI completely. Don't forget that part of the latest patches on TQ have been to update the UI code to make it carbonised so they can then improve it much faster and more effectively. So it would be tragic to then tie it in with incarna so that they have to unpick it Incarna/In space functionality when they get around to updating it. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
ThomaK WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.08 00:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Soden Rah Don't forget that part of the latest patches on TQ have been to update the UI code to make it carbonised so they can then improve it much faster and more effectively. So it would be tragic to then tie it in with incarna so that they have to unpick it Incarna/In space functionality when they get around to updating it. Yes, when you see buttons appearing in incarna while passing the mouse on certain object, you only thing you think is, why all the CQ UI isn't this way ? Like i said, no UI is totally hardcore, i know that, but a more intelligent UI for Incarna, that was think to stick to the BG and to improve gameplay makes more sense that having this antediluvian Interface...
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.08 00:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Kerrisone A compromise might be to leave the neocom overlay in your CQ but once you leave CQ you are reduced to a limited interface from your wrist watch/gauntlet computer. You'd then have the option of utilizing kiosks/computers to regain the fullness of the neocom functions as when in your pod. The trouble with that from a design perspective is that the rest of Incarna becomes functionally different from CQ. And as CQ are in part a test-bed for the technology being applied throughout the rest of incarna, having them functionally different reduces its efficaciousness as a test-bed. Also it would feel weird having Incarna being artificially different in CQ from the rest of the station. It would be much simpler and more effective to let us keep the old hanger and make CQ a completely separate realm where they can ditch the old UI completely. Don't forget that part of the latest patches on TQ have been to update the UI code to make it carbonised so they can then improve it much faster and more effectively. So it would be tragic to then tie it in with incarna so that they have to unpick it Incarna/In space functionality when they get around to updating it. I would much rather do it that way BUT I think some people will not be happy, to put it mildly, if they can't do EVERYTHING they could do from a pod in 'incarna bodies'. To appease them I'd be fine with the 'compromise' and issues of not having a uniform environment for testing, not that I get to make such decisions or even have any pull whatsoever.
Xindi Kraid The Night Wardens	Posted - 2011.06.08 04:52:00 - [24] Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 08/06/2011 04:55:19 I do agree with making CQ an optional thing where you have to choose to get out of your pod, but when you do, you go off grid. But I don't think it should necessarily disconnect you from all your comms. Right now there are three screens in front of the couch, the right always opens the industrial window and the left always opens the corporation windows, while the middle rolls through mostly useless info. Why not re-purpose on of them to show your channels. Click on them to type something in, then go back to whatever else you were doing. Also, when out of CQ, maybe you have some sort of tablet computer with you so you can access everything you would normally be able to through the neocomm. You wouldn't be able to do everything at once with it, though. Have to jack in for that. -Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye'
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.08 07:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 08/06/2011 04:55:19Also, when out of CQ, maybe you have some sort of tablet computer with you so you can access everything you would normally be able to through the neocomm. You wouldn't be able to do everything at once with it, though. Have to jack in for that. ^This What I say isn't : Forget to connect to Neocom stuff you can normally get from your pod. I just say that having exactly the same UI make no sense. I rather prefer a "light" UI with possibility to see some of the neocom features when you connect from your tblet PC ... Exactly when you saw in the Promotionnal Video Eve - A Future Vision the man reading an evemail with a sort of advanced phone.
Garmi Detarius	Posted - 2011.06.10 07:14:00 - [26] Edited by: Garmi Detarius on 10/06/2011 07:14:03 Strange ... No CCP reply on this ?
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.10 10:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Garmi Detarius Edited by: Garmi Detarius on 10/06/2011 07:14:03 Strange ... No CCP reply on this ? Ahh... That's because they are busy telling us all about the hugely important release of Dust, which is a mear 12 months away... Who needs to know about the patch coming out in 11 days, I mean that's like forever.... __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
BugraT WarheaD Astromechanica Federatis	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:09:00 - [28] Yeah ... More and more anxious about that :( Hope the Server Test only shows us a very small part of CQ.
boseo Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:43:00 - [29] in short: Ability to stay in pod/ship and keep current functions UI - Yes being in CQ means some functions have to be done by the screens and relevant controls - yes lose chat - no (will explain) little phone/ computer for wallet and mail/ other functions - yes I think the chat should stay up all the time, as it could be controlled through a futuristic implant, or even be on the phone/computer thing also mentioned. I think that if it was removed it would make a hole heap of problems. I personally like the idea of docking and staying in ship/pod should be for quick things to be done, or quick pit stops as it were. CQ should come in for when you are planing on docking for a while (what say 10-20 mins?). I would also think that if you logout in a station while in pod, when you log in you are in CQ. but a option should be available to tern off such a little gimmick as that.
Kro0k	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:51:00 - [30] Edited by: Kro0k on 10/06/2011 14:50:59 People get really mad when they cant spin their ships dont they...

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